2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[Statto]

Kopitar and Doughty are still good players. When it came to sign them the trades had already been made, and the cupboard was bare. It was time to re-stock the cupboard. Keeping them is not helping this franchise.

It’s not hurting though and the cupboard is no longer bare, and will get another injection this coming draft. Whomever we bring in and promote needs good role models to play with and develop alongside. Both are good pros, know what it takes to win and both are still top players, they just have no one to play with. I don’t think Kopi is the best Captain, but that’s a completely different debate. Literally no one else on the roster is a sure fire top 6 forward or top 4 d-man, so expecting them to look great at this stage of things is unrealistic. No players in the league would look their best under these circumstances. I mean give it a few weeks and Grundstrom could have claimed the 1LW spot as his own for the year.

In a couple of years keeping these guys will look like a no brainer as the new generation get going. Both will age well and in 2-3 years will be a factor.

Once the rest of the aging contracts come of the books thing will be fine cap wise. So that’s not going to be a problem. I’d like to see Brown resign at a much lower cap hit, but the rest will hopefully go via trade but if not free agency. If anything we will need to add a vet or 2 via free agency in a couple of years.

 

[KINGS17]

It’s not hurting though and the cupboard is no longer bare, and will get another injection this coming draft. Whomever we bring in and promote needs good role models to play with and develop alongside. Both are good pros, know what it takes to win and both are still top players, they just have no one to play with. I don’t think Kopi is the best Captain, but that’s a completely different debate. Literally no one else on the roster is a sure fire top 6 forward or top 4 d-man, so expecting them to look great at this stage of things is unrealistic. No players in the league would look their best under these circumstances. I mean give it a few weeks and Grundstrom could have claimed the 1LW spot as his own for the year.

In a couple of years keeping these guys will look like a no brainer as the new generation get going. Both will age well and in 2-3 years will be a factor.

Once the rest of the aging contracts come of the books thing will be fine cap wise. So that’s not going to be a problem. I’d like to see Brown resign at a much lower cap hit, but the rest will hopefully go via trade but if not free agency. If anything we will need to add a vet or 2 via free agency in a couple of years.

That's the point, it did hurt. The Kings are finishing next to DFL with Kopitar and Doughty. They could have done that without them and accelerated the rebuild by a few years.

How exactly do we know both will age well? I don't see either one of them as having the type of dedication it takes in the off season to be top NHL performers as they get older. Sorry, I think it was a no-brainer to get the assets and move on from them. You still have guys like Brown on the roster who can fill the "veteran leadership" role.

 

[King'sPawn]

Kopitar and Doughty are still good players. When it came to sign them the trades had already been made, and the cupboard was bare. It was time to re-stock the cupboard. Keeping them is not helping this franchise.

The cupboard being bare wasn't due to them staying. It was other trades and poor development which emptied it out.

 

[KINGS17]

The cupboard being bare wasn't due to them staying. It was other trades and poor development which emptied it out.

Yes, yes, I know this is what you believe. Trading each of them for two or three great and younger assets would have re-stocked the cupboard quite a bit, don't you think?

 

[King'sPawn]

Yes, yes, I know this is what you believe. Trading each of them for two or three great and younger assets would have re-stocked the cupboard quite a bit, don't you think?

And turned the Kings into the 2010-14 Edmonton Oilers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Ignoring the humanity of your players, and treating them solely as assets, is not a healthy way to run an organization. Especially when they've done so much to be a part of the organization.

 

[bland]

And turned the Kings into the 2010-14 Edmonton Oilers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Ignoring the humanity of your players, and treating them solely as assets, is not a healthy way to run an organization. Especially when they've done so much to be a part of the organization.

Clearly there is a massive void in leadership, accountability and character within the organization, and the "core" is very much part of that problem.

We have been disagreeing about this for years, and I will always insist that the results justify my argument. Anze Kopitar is a terrific player, but the wrong kind of person to max out in a retirement contract. He is too passive and emotionless to be part of any leadership group, and won't be effective enough to justify his salary when the kids are moving upwards. Trading him was the best option, and nothing that has happened since they extended him says otherwise.

Drew Doughty may need to be traded and traded soon. He is, in my opinion, the best LA King ever, but his personality very well may be a detriment to a rebuild. This team is going to take its lumps for a few years, and having such a highly competitive hot head around during losing years could very well create too negative of an enviornment when more positivity and patience are needed for kids as they break in.

 

[Bandit]

This again? At some point some people are going to have to get over the fact that we kept Kopitar, Doughty and Quick. It’s done, everyone knows who wouldn’t have made that “mistake” on these boards. They haven’t stopped talking about it every other day for two years.

I dunno, keep talking about it and open a wormhole that allows you to change history, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wait, Dorion was scouting the Kings?

RIP anyone who has a cap hit higher than their salary!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Re Kopitar and Doughty, you need some vets to bring kids along the right way. Their cap hits aren't hurting. Yes the massive assets in return would have been nice but a couple of late firsts entering a void of leadership and veteran experience turns into the same lottery teams we've seen for the last 10 years.

Everyone else? Feel free to shoot them into space for all I care at this point. But the last thing I want is the oldest person on the roster to be Walker.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Who knows maybe with our full cupboards our team will be very good in a year or two. And then it will be nice to have an elite #1 Dman and #1 C that are proven capable of carrying teams in the playoffs. Maybe we make another cup run with Kopi and Doughty leading the way.

Plus when a team has a bunch of cheap but productive ELC players like we will likely have as soon as next season. You actually need to surround those guys with Expensive productive veterans or else you are basically blowing that cup window. No point in having a bunch of good cheap ELC players and not actually maxing out your salary cap at the same time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah, I don't at all see the problem with having a winding-down Kopitar as a 3C or Doughty as Bjornfot's stay at home partner, like Rafalski-Lidstrom.

Before anyone complains about money, look at the contracts in 3-4 years.

 

[kilowatt]

Wait, Dorion was scouting the Kings?

RIP anyone who has a cap hit higher than their salary!

Jeff Carter and Ilya Kovalchuk to Ottawa, E5

 

[KINGS17]

And turned the Kings into the 2010-14 Edmonton Oilers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Ignoring the humanity of your players, and treating them solely as assets, is not a healthy way to run an organization. Especially when they've done so much to be a part of the organization.

You don't know that the Kings would have the same difficulties as the Oilers in rebuilding. Saying so is just false. What has happened is what a few of us who post here predicted would happen, and that is while Kopitar and Doughty would still be good players, the rest of the roster wouldn't cut it, and the time on their long-term, big money contracts would be wasted.

You can blame the emptying of the cupboard on the trades Dean Lombardi made to try and make another run at the cup in 2015, but the point still remains that by the time Kopitar signed his deal the dye was cast and there was no way of fixing it.

Successful teams treat their players like assets, and with dignity. There is nothing nefarious or disrespectful about trading a player who has been with the club for 6 - 10 years.

BTW, the Edmonton Oilers are pretty good right now.

 

[King'sPawn]

You don't know that the Kings would have the same difficulties as the Oilers in rebuilding. Saying so is just false. What has happened is what a few of us who post here predicted would happen, and that is while Kopitar and Doughty would still be good players, the rest of the roster wouldn't cut it, and the time on their long-term, big money contracts would be wasted.

You can blame the emptying of the cupboard on the trades Dean Lombardi made to try and make another run at the cup in 2015, but the point still remains that by the time Kopitar signed his deal the dye was cast and there was no way of fixing it.

Successful teams treat their players like assets, and with dignity. There is nothing nefarious or disrespectful about trading a player who has been with the club for 6 - 10 years.

BTW, the Edmonton Oilers are pretty good right now.

You don't know that it would have worked, either. But what we do know is throwing prospects in the NHL doesn't foster a winning team.

The Lombardi route, which you supported for years, involves patience and mixing good development and good vets.

Kopitar and Doughty are not players you just trade away just to get more young players you can only hope the prospects will become.

And the Oilers are good because of a generational player you can't expect to fall on your lap. If that's your model of success, then there's very little left to discuss.

 

[kingsfan28]

How about Toffoli for Hall, straight up?

 

[kingsfan28]

You don't know that it would have worked, either. But what we do know is throwing prospects in the NHL doesn't foster a winning team.

The Lombardi route, which you supported for years, involves patience and mixing good development and good vets.

Kopitar and Doughty are not players you just trade away just to get more young players you can only hope the prospects will become.

And the Oilers are good because of a generational player you can't expect to fall on your lap. If that's your model of success, then there's very little left to discuss.

even having hm doesn't automatically generate success. The Oilers have one line and two old goalies. They have very little to show for all those top picks as we've seen. They should be much better by now and if it weren't for the bottom half of the division sucking at the same time, they'd be middle of the pack again.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How about Toffoli for Hall, straight up?

Maybe once the Kings get Hall they can finally win a draft lottery.

 

[Cochese]

Any and every GM is going to re-sign or at the very least try to re-sign their franchise center and Dman coming off two Stanley cups with them leading the charge.

If you have something that contributed to a winning formula, why would you take a risk into acquiring younger unknowns? I know it could be the smart play, but you never know how these players will age. No GM is going to be a maverick and think that is what is needed. Right or wrong. People definitely can’t say it was the wrong play because we have no idea what kind of haul or how productive those what if’s would’ve been or how Kopitar and Doughty would age.

 

[kingsfan28]

Maybe once the Kings get Hall they can finally win a draft lottery.

Bingo!

 

[KINGS17]

You don't know that it would have worked, either. But what we do know is throwing prospects in the NHL doesn't foster a winning team.

The Lombardi route, which you supported for years, involves patience and mixing good development and good vets.

Kopitar and Doughty are not players you just trade away just to get more young players you can only hope the prospects will become.

And the Oilers are good because of a generational player you can't expect to fall on your lap. If that's your model of success, then there's very little left to discuss.

Yes, I favor the Lombardi route. You trade the old assets you have to acquire younger assets. Then you keep sucking by signing older free agents to short term contracts until your young assets are ready.

Tell me, what good are Doughty and Kopitar doing for the Kings at this point in time? Are they outstanding leaders? What is happening now, is what many predicted would happen.

What good could the assets we would have received for them in a trade do for the Kings in the future? We'll never know.

 

[Statto]

Yes, I favor the Lombardi route. You trade the old assets you have to acquire younger assets. Then you keep sucking by signing older free agents to short term contracts until your young assets are ready.

Tell me, what good are Doughty and Kopitar doing for the Kings at this point in time? Are they outstanding leaders? What is happening now, is what many predicted would happen.

What good could the assets we would have received for them in a trade do for the Kings in the future? We'll never know.

If you take them out and add a couple of kids imagine how much worse we’d be and how badly we’d be getting destroyed without them. You’d just end up with a bunch of young guys with who as a role model? Carter and Martinez? As has been said the prospects we’d have gotten would most likely be late round picks and therefore unlikely to get to the level of either Kopi or Drew. We’d never know but even as ageing players there’s a good chance they’d be better than whomever we would have drafted.

I actually think they are both decent leaders and we are seeing that this year a bit more as they seem to have been given a longer leash in public. Drew especially has been good IMO, if a little unorthodox in how he’s talked with the media. Of course where it matters, in the room, we have no idea. I’m firmly in the camp that thinks Brown should still be Captain, but that doesn’t mean I think Kopitar's completely devoid of leadership skills.

I do think both will age well. Both of them rely heavily on hockey IQ, neither rely on explosive speed, both look after themselves and play most of games each year. Of course there are no guarantees, especially with injuries , but I think they are strong candidates for players that will age well.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yes, I favor the Lombardi route. You trade the old assets you have to acquire younger assets. Then you keep sucking by signing older free agents to short term contracts until your young assets are ready.

Tell me, what good are Doughty and Kopitar doing for the Kings at this point in time? Are they outstanding leaders? What is happening now, is what many predicted would happen.

What good could the assets we would have received for them in a trade do for the Kings in the future? We'll never know.

Whether or not their 'leadership abilities'--shit we don't know other than hearsay--are stellar, kids literally list Doughty and Kopitar amongst their favorite players and guys they grew up watching. They are multiple cup winning, individual award winning, cream of the crop players that others can learn and absorb from. Even if (when?) they become a #2 dman and a #3 center, we don't need their money free, and their games should age well since they aren't based on explosive physicality.

You're right that we don't know what assets we'd have and whether they'd be helping the team, so I think it's as fallacious to pretend their 'replacement' assets would be great as it is to pretend they wouldn't be helping.


But let's ignore the Oilers example. Sabres did the same thing. Florida has been doing the same thing. Carolina had been doing the same thing roughly since they won a Cup nearly 15 years ago, and now they're finally pulling out of it...and brought Williams back with a C. They've all been awful and devoid of veteran leadership for over a decade.

The team that just kicked the shit out of us kept their veterans that weren't even as good as Doughty in Edler and Tanev, and rode the Sedins through the end of their career. That's allowing Quinn Hughes to do his thing.

Winnipeg kept Wheeler, Byfuglien. That's allowed Laine, Morrison, et. al. to get acclimated.

Colorado's kept Eric friggin Johnson this whole time.

Boston kept Chara, Bergeron, and rode other guys through the end of their careers as well.

I think there are plenty of good examples of "what good Doughty and Kopitar" are doing for the Kings at this point in time, and plenty of good examples of what happens when that scaffolding is missing.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Toronto lost Leonard but they tried to keep him.

I would rather Pay the guys who LA won with then go the way of the Marlins.

When the contracts were given the only one I did not like was Gaboriks, but even then he was coming off an amazing playoffs but I just knew it meant the end of Williams (may have left anyway), and also I hated the term on it.

Leonard chose to leave. There was basically nothing, if anything, Toronto could do to keep him. It would've been great if Doughty forced the Kings hand like that, but he didn't. He was more than willing to stay(assuming the money was good). I doubt it would've helped, but had the 18-19 season happened in 17-18 instead, maybe Doughty can't leave fast enough.

Why is this a binary choice? The Kings didn't have to become the Marlins of the NHL. I would rather the Kings not be paying Doughty and Kopitar into their late thirties.

I don't know how many would disagree with that. Unfortunately, the cap doesn't allow you to pay guys $25m a year for a couple years as a thank you for winning. It has to be stretched out over too long a period of time.

Again, I don't need to name the team. Dozens of teams in major league sports do it incorrectly. The NHL is a young man's league. You don't win with your highest paid players being a bunch of 30-somethings. Chicago and LA are proving it. I said the Toews and Kane contracts were a bad idea when they signed them, and the Kings followed suit with two deals that made no sense based on the situation the roster was in at the time.

That's undeniably true. However, those contracts weren't about winning. They were about having won. At least it came with winning, and we're not having to complain about a Jamie Benn type situation.

In sports, if you win, you pay your players. That's why dozens of teams have done it incorrectly. That's pretty much how the business works. Certainly with the best players, sometimes even the lesser talents. That's it. Doesn't matter if it's good or bad, in the short or long term. Yes, a random veteran who has been around forever could easily do exactly what Kopitar/etc do in terms of showing young guys what it means to be a pro. Just being part of the elite that make the NHL is enough for players to listen, you don't have to come to the discussion with a ring to have credibility. That's not why they were re-signed though.

And it's also unfair for teams to expect fans to pay top dollar while a team sucks because they handed out stupid contracts to players that have passed their best by date.

Doughty will be the last guy to get a new contract(other than Kovalchuk, but that was a second GM getting screwed over again by a former championship core). They're now slowly working within the confines of the cap to move on from the past. Everything started too late, but DL should've started the rebuilding process during the 14-15 season. It was over then, 2 years later was too late as well. What's done is done. All they can do at this point is chip away a little at a time. There are obstacles, self imposed obstacles, but they're moving in the right direction, and have been for almost a calendar year.

We want the team to move on from the past, and we fans also have to let the past go. Anything that happened before the Pearson trade should be irrelevant, because none of it can be changed. Nov 14th, 2018 was the true start of a new era. Blake hasn't traded any picks or prospects since getting the job, but 11/14/18 was acceptance of reality.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Any and every GM is going to re-sign or at the very least try to re-sign their franchise center and Dman coming off two Stanley cups with them leading the charge.

If you have something that contributed to a winning formula, why would you take a risk into acquiring younger unknowns? I know it could be the smart play, but you never know how these players will age. No GM is going to be a maverick and think that is what is needed. Right or wrong. People definitely can’t say it was the wrong play because we have no idea what kind of haul or how productive those what if’s would’ve been or how Kopitar and Doughty would age.

Agreed. My biggest issue with the extensions, if it was an an issue all, was the Brown contract. Yes Brown played at a discount for a couple years prior but giving that contract was crazy. It immediately made him an unmoveable asset. It created an all in mentality because they were so invested in a declining player.

 

[KINGS17]

Re Kopitar and Doughty, you need some vets to bring kids along the right way. Their cap hits aren't hurting. Yes the massive assets in return would have been nice but a couple of late firsts entering a void of leadership and veteran experience turns into the same lottery teams we've seen for the last 10 years.

Everyone else? Feel free to shoot them into space for all I care at this point. But the last thing I want is the oldest person on the roster to be Walker.

Vets are needed? Yes, that's why Dean signed guys like Handzus back in the day.