2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[Whitesnake]

Groulx is awful but that doesn't mean Veleno isn't very good either. He's gonna have his work to do to make it as a 2nd line C. For all the flack Eller got with us, Veleno is not as big or strong, plays much the same way and Eller is a much better shooter.



They are both snipers but I think Wahlstrom is actually the more dangerous sniper of the two. Every time Wahlstrom has a shooting opportunity, he's a threat to score. While Zadina is as well, it's in a bit of a different range, I don't even know how to explain it. As far as hands and passing skills go, I actually have Wahlstrom ahead on both. Wahlstrom has that extra reach and knows how to use it, it will get better as he gets stronger since he's taller than Zadina and hasn't found his man strength yet, when he gets those strong legs and bends down, I think he will be even more effective. I've also seen Wahlstrom put his teammates in better positions with passing than Zadina, he is just so shoot heavy that you don't see it as much. Defensive play, sure, edge to Zadina, but Zadina also makes bad decisions resulting in turn overs a lot too.

Upside for me is Wahlstrom and comparatively, I think Wahlstrom will be the better scorer at the next level too.

It's all good. As you know I respect your opinion a lot. There are probably no worst answers there. And time will tell. And going either way, with me, would not be a bad choice. But I still have Zadina on top.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's all good. As you know I respect your opinion a lot. There are probably no worst answers there. And time will tell. And going either way, with me, would not be a bad choice. But I still have Zadina on top.

It's clearly just a matter of choice between the two. I like Wahlstrom better but if someone likes Zadina better, there's really not much separating them right now. Certainly not a wrong choice between the two, IMO.

 

[Whitesnake]

Yes, Veleno didn't have a great U-18. Dellandrea looked way better. I just don't put a lot of weight on specific tournament to change totally my mind on somebody. I know that's not what you guys are doing. You already had reservations and it just confirmed it. Personnally, I saw him up close all year long and liked what I see. OBVIOUSLY not to pick him top 10 though. As you saw in my list.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yes, Veleno didn't have a great U-18. Dellandrea looked way better. I just don't put a lot of weight on specific tournament to change totally my mind on somebody. I know that's not what you guys are doing. You already had reservations and it just confirmed it. Personnally, I saw him up close all year long and liked what I see. OBVIOUSLY not to pick him top 10 though. As you saw in my list.

I liked Veleno in the past when he was a younger player in the league and obviously on the map for this draft.
Then this year, I thought I was staring at the same player in SJ. He gets traded to Drummondville, production goes up. So now, I have to ask myself, did he really progress, is it just the better team/environment? Then he goes to the U-18 and he plays exactly like he did in SJ and to me it reads more like a hot streak/environmental impact on Veleno's production in Drummondville versus any type of growth.

Outside of the few games of his I watched in Drummondville, I did check his highlight package to see how he was producing with Drummondville. A lot of it was on the Powerplay, and a lot of it was very minimal impact on the play. I can't say he did much in Drummondville that drove those points to happen, he was very much a support centre getting production from guys on his line and PP unit.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yes, Veleno didn't have a great U-18. Dellandrea looked way better. I just don't put a lot of weight on specific tournament to change totally my mind on somebody. I know that's not what you guys are doing. You already had reservations and it just confirmed it. Personnally, I saw him up close all year long and liked what I see. OBVIOUSLY not to pick him top 10 though. As you saw in my list.

There's a lot to like when you watch Veleno. You see what we see: a big kid with good puck skills, a strong passing game, and a wonderful skater. If you had to scout players based on how they look when not attempting to be offensively dangerous, Veleno would be right up there with the top guys in this draft. I just don't see it amounting to anything.

I'll give a counter example, a guy who's almost the exact opposite player: David Gustafsson. He is rough around every imaginable edge. But I'll tell you what, I've never watched a game of his and not been surprised by his awareness and intelligence and involvement in the game. I wasn't even intending to scout him early this year, I was watching Brännström and this kid with terrible skating was winning faceoffs, laying out hits, and making dangerous offensive plays on every shift. I've never had this experience with Veleno.

I have Veleno ahead of Gustafsson on my latest ranking but I'm thinking about being brave, putting on my big boy pants and putting him ahead of Joe.

 

[Whitesnake]

I will say that I think Veleno biggest problem is intensity and willingness to move another step. Veleno could, I stress could 'cause I still believe in him, finish like Esposito or Leblanc did. To which extend is Veleno able to go when talent alone won't be enough. That's a legitmate concern. A concern though that is not big enough for me to move him too high in the draft. But we all know that every year, there will always be 5-7 1st rounders that will fall on their face. And maybe, just maybe, I can see how some of you could think he is a candidate to do just that.

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

I missed some team Canada games at WJC18 and Veleno missed one of those I watched, so I couldn't come to a clear evaluation of him. What made you guys raise your concerns about him?
After the first tier of like 12 players, I think he right up there among the 2nd tier of players, do you guys still have him there? I am not fully sold on him so I am open to change my mind.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I would love Dellandrea. It seems though that he is now out of reach for our 2nd round pick unless we trade up...

 

[Andrei79]

While he certainly has flaws, I’d say they are coachable (as long as he’s open to the coaching). You make it seem like he’s completely predictable out there, which I don’t think is the case at all.

I mean I don’t see any reason why he should go 15 spots after Bode Wilde. That guy is as dumb as a bag of bricks. At least Merkley shows he can dominate, he just needs to drive himself to do it consistently.

Merkley's going to hit a wall at some point, most kids who rely too much on skills do. I'm not sure when though. It could be at the AHL or on an NHL 3rd or 2nd pairing. At that point, it'll be interesting how he adapts. Kids like that sometimes take years to accept they really do need to learn. If that happens while he's in the AHL or a fringe 3rd pairing guy, he'll bust hard. Others want so badly to be the best they'll basically be open to anything, even if they keep being headcases. No idea what Merkley is other than he's the most frustrating player in the draft for me. That's why I think the due diligence is doubly important for him, because if its positive, he'll a be great pick.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Merkley's skills aren't even that great. Like I said, he just holds on to the puck too long and looks for the craziest cross ice pass he can see. Sometimes it works. The times it works ends up in highlight videos, and people think he's amazing. He's dumb as shit, though.

Man, is this post ever quotable in the even that he proves me wrong.

 

[boyinboyin]

How does Veleno compare to a guy like Couturier? Similar or not?

 

[le_sean]

How does Veleno compare to a guy like Couturier? Similar or not?

He sucks and Couturier doesn’t.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

How does Veleno compare to a guy like Couturier? Similar or not?

Veleno is very vanilla type of player. Skate good, very good hands but always on the perimeter and not really a defense first type of center either. I can see the Esposito comparison. He is nothing like Couturier. Couturier was an average skater with great skills and very strong and that dominated junior hockey.

Veleno with his skillset and experience should be dominating junior hockey. He did have progression this year production wise but he still has a long way to go to reach the next level.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

I`m still sticking to a current day Ryan Nugent-Hopkins as a comparison for Veleno.

Relies on skating, passing and perimeter play to set up teamamtes but is pretty good defensively. RNH improved his shot recently at the age of 25 so maybe there is still hope for Veleno.

 

[WinterLion]

I would love Dellandrea. It seems though that he is now out of reach for our 2nd round pick unless we trade up...

He had a great U18's and will be sought after, but that "1st round" is getting awful full... if he is not there at 35 there will be some other great players!

 

[jaffy27]

Groulx is awful but that doesn't mean Veleno isn't very good either. He's gonna have his work to do to make it as a 2nd line C. For all the flack Eller got with us, Veleno is not as big or strong, plays much the same way and Eller is a much better shooter.



They are both snipers but I think Wahlstrom is actually the more dangerous sniper of the two. Every time Wahlstrom has a shooting opportunity, he's a threat to score. While Zadina is as well, it's in a bit of a different range, I don't even know how to explain it. As far as hands and passing skills go, I actually have Wahlstrom ahead on both. Wahlstrom has that extra reach and knows how to use it, it will get better as he gets stronger since he's taller than Zadina and hasn't found his man strength yet, when he gets those strong legs and bends down, I think he will be even more effective. I've also seen Wahlstrom put his teammates in better positions with passing than Zadina, he is just so shoot heavy that you don't see it as much. Defensive play, sure, edge to Zadina, but Zadina also makes bad decisions resulting in turn overs a lot too.

Upside for me is Wahlstrom and comparatively, I think Wahlstrom will be the better scorer at the next level too.

Very informative, thanks for the detailed breakdown....still have Zadina first.....(at 3 of course)....for HABS, if I had to guess their list, it would be

Dahlin
Svechnikov
Zadina
Whalstrom
Tkachuk
Boqvist
Kotkaniemi

 

[David Suzuki]

Very informative, thanks for the detailed breakdown....still have Zadina first.....(at 3 of course)....for HABS, if I had to guess their list, it would be

Dahlin
Svechnikov
Zadina
Whalstrom
Tkachuk
Boqvist
Kotkaniemi

I bet they have Boqvist at 4.

 

[jaffy27]

I bet they have Boqvist at 4.

Could be but we'll never know.......look at Bergevins 1st round selections

Galchenyuk 6'1
McCarron 6'5
Scherbak 6'2
Juulsen 6'2
Sergachev 6'3
Poelhing 6'2

Unless the kid is off the charts good, they like size with their first round picks. Zadina, Whalstrom and Tkachuk are all good talents in the 6'1+ catergory. I threw in Boqvist there because of his superb talent. And of course Kotkaniemi at almost 6'3

 

[NotProkofievian]

@Mathletic said something interesting last year pertaining to the BPA vs need argument. Before you can make a BPA ranking, you should be able to rank the best players by position. It's not so much that you get into trouble when selecting for need. It's that you picked a player that just wasn't any good. With that being said, let's rank the top 10 centers for this year's draft. Tomorrow we can do LD.

Kotkaniemi
Lundeström
Kupari
Dellandrea
Gustafsson
Veleno
Hayton
Olofsson
McLeod
Morozov

 

[Runner77]

I would love Dellandrea. It seems though that he is now out of reach for our 2nd round pick unless we trade up...

Based on current forecasts or your own rankings, where do you see Dellandrea falling?

 

[Runner77]

The logical decision for me is to go for position where the BPA is within the same talent tier. The earlier the round, the more rigor I would use in this regard.

Ultimately, you can't pass up on a player that provides the greatest talent and potential by a significant margin only because he's not playing the position you happen to need. This is where you stock up your organizational depth with layers upon layers of talented players who were BPAs and then move them at the appropriate time to fill needs, so that you're never forced into a position of compromise at the most critical and vulnerable time -- the time when you're drafting them.

 

[Mrb1p]

Merkley's going to hit a wall at some point, most kids who rely too much on skills do. I'm not sure when though. It could be at the AHL or on an NHL 3rd or 2nd pairing. At that point, it'll be interesting how he adapts. Kids like that sometimes take years to accept they really do need to learn. If that happens while he's in the AHL or a fringe 3rd pairing guy, he'll bust hard. Others want so badly to be the best they'll basically be open to anything, even if they keep being headcases. No idea what Merkley is other than he's the most frustrating player in the draft for me. That's why I think the due diligence is doubly important for him, because if its positive, he'll a be great pick.

Yup. Jonathan Drouin 2.0

 

[Mrb1p]

Based on current forecasts or your own rankings, where do you see Dellandrea falling?

I have him at 20, i see him going top 31.

 

[NotProkofievian]

The logical decision for me is to go for position where the BPA is within the same talent tier. The earlier the round, the more rigor I would use in this regard.

Ultimately, you can't pass up on a player that provides the greatest talent and potential by a significant margin only because he's not playing the position you happen to need. This is where you stock up your organizational depth with layers upon layers of talented players who were BPAs and then move them at the appropriate time to fill needs, so that you're never forced into a position of compromise at the most critical and vulnerable time -- the time when you're drafting them.

You also can't allow your organization to fall into utter disrepair at multiple positions like we have. We're good at Wing and RD. That's it, and even then are we really ''set'' at those positions? We have good wingers, but not a single elite one. We have an elite defenseman, but he'll be 33 and recently recovered from foot surgery to start next season.

Needs drafting gets a bum rap, IMO. I don't know why our club isn't used as an example of why and how ''BPA'' drafting can go horribly wrong. There's just an underlying assumption that you know who the BPA actually is, when at best you have an estimate.

 

[jaffy27]

The logical decision for me is to go for position where the BPA is within the same talent tier. The earlier the round, the more rigor I would use in this regard.

Ultimately, you can't pass up on a player that provides the greatest talent and potential by a significant margin only because he's not playing the position you happen to need. This is where you stock up your organizational depth with layers upon layers of talented players who were BPAs and then move them at the appropriate time to fill needs, so that you're never forced into a position of compromise at the most critical and vulnerable time -- the time when you're drafting them.

Holy f***, you have more likes then I have posts

Well deserved of course

Great post btw, spot on as always