2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[Mrb1p]

This is your angle of the debate:

Everything Zadina did well this year: It don't matter

Everything Svechnikov did well this year: It means he should be compared to McDavid

Svechnikov > Zadina. However Zadina is not a "meh" prospect and the gap between these two is not significant

Jesus f***.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Yes but what Svech did with no ice time was impressive.

Zadina was on the top line and top PP unit. Svech did not have that.

And what Zadina did with his opportunity was even more impressive. Did you guys not watch the Czech/Canada game? Canada couldn't stop him (though obviously Canada was much better overall)

 

[Andrei79]

Svechnikov played 4th line and had no PP yet produced at a PPG clip in the WJC. Tell me more.

Wait... usage and linemates influence production ?

Good points but it don't mean that Svechnikov scores 62 goals in 68 games (prorated). I have him as the #2 ranked guy but Zadina is not significantly behind him.

Svechnikov upped his production down the stretch. And if we're downplaying Svech's goal scoring pace over a full schedule, let's do the same for Zadina, seeing as he's not as good of a scorer.

 

[Mrb1p]

And what Zadina did with his opportunity was even more impressive. Did you guys not watch the Czech/Canada game? Canada couldn't stop him (though obviously Canada was much better overall)

Canada couldnt stop Necas, who was the best player in the tournament.

 

[NotProkofievian]

If they are equal in everything else, sure. It doesn't mean I'd want Byron Froese over Nikita Kucherov.

You know who was just in the Finnish league and became a #1 centre in the NHL? Barkov. You know what Barkov did his draft year? 20 more points than Kotkaniemi, playing as a centre the entire year and he didn't disappear in the playoffs like Kotkaniemi. He's a better skater and a better playmaker. I don't see 1C upside with the kid.

I'm not claiming Kotkaniemi is Barkov, so I have no idea what your point is here. If Jesperi accomplished what Barkov did, we wouldn't be debating anything: he'd be closer to #2 than #3. But we should be precise about what Jesperi Kotkaniemi did this year: his even strength production was better than Rantanen's, better than Puljujärvi's, better than Laine's. He didn't just cobble together a few points, he did very well, historically speaking.

Did you watch him in Liiga this year?

The fact remains everyone in the professional ranks, every single person, has Zadina over Kotkaniemi. You have to draft the best player.

I have Zadina ahead of Kotkaniemi, too. That's why I've been arguing about trading back. But I don't think the gap is either so large as to be laughable, or irreconcilable in the future.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Canada couldnt stop Necas, who was the best player in the tournament.

Necas was great, but Zadina was unreal. His skill level is elite and he showed it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wait... usage and linemates influence production ?



Svechnikov upped his production down the stretch. And if we're downplaying Svech's goal scoring pace over a full schedule, let's do the same for Zadina, seeing as he's not as good of a scorer.

I'm not down playing Svechnikov, I'm showing why I think he is just slightly better than Zadina. This started with someone calling Zadina a "meh" prospect and that the gap between these two is significant... Something I don't agree with.

 

[sandviper]

No matter how many times you repeat this, it will not make it true. This draft is similar to 2016, theres a clear separation between one and two and a drop off drom 2 and 3.

I don't disagree (I think there is a drop after top-2) and posted this earlier of how I feel the ranking looks if you put a grade to the player:

1. Rasmus Dahlin (100)
2. Andrei Svechnikov (96 - this was 98 earlier but I lowered it a bit to separate the difference I feel between the two)

3. Adam Boqvist (93 - this was 94 earlier but I lowered it a bit to compensate my re-grading of Svechnikov)
4. Oliver Wahlstrom (92)
5. Filip Zadina (91)
6. Quinn Hughes (90)

7. Noah Dobson (88)
8. Jesperi Kotkaniemi (87)
9. Ty Smith (87)
10. Brady Tkachuk (86)

11. Evan Bouchard (85)
12. Vitaly Kravtsov (84)
13. Filip Hallander (83)
14. Jonatan Berggren (82)
15. Isac Lundestrom (81)
16. Joel Farabee (80)

17. Ty Dellandrea (79)
18. Jonathan Tychonick (77)
19. Rasmus Kupari (77)
20. Martin Kaut (77)
21. Nils Lundkvist (76)
22. Dominik Bokk (75)
23. Alexander Alexeyev (75)
24. Rasmus Sandin (70)

25. Grigori Denisenko (68)
26. Joseph Veleno (68)
27. Jacob Olofsson (67)
28. Barrett Hayton (66)
29. Jesse Ylonen (65)
30. Bode Wilde (64)
31. Liam Foudy (63)

Basically, #3 to #6 is close, though this is how I feel about those 4 players.

 

[Andrei79]

Svechnikov could also be Yakupov and Zadina could be Forsberg....

Zadina could also be Pavel Brendl. It's a way to look at things that offers no value.

 

[WeThreeKings]

And what Zadina did with his opportunity was even more impressive. Did you guys not watch the Czech/Canada game? Canada couldn't stop him (though obviously Canada was much better overall)

I think doing a lot with little is more impressive than doing a lot with a lot.

There's just no way that Svech isn't undisputably better right now than Zadina. Eye test confirms. Stats confirms. Advanced state confirms.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Jesus ****.

Think twice next time before you call Zadina a "MEH" prospect

 

[Andrei79]

I'm not down playing Svechnikov, I'm showing why I think he is just slightly better than Zadina. This started with someone calling Zadina a "meh" prospect and that the gap between these two is significant... Something I don't agree with.

Those two things are two separate opinions though.

Zadina is not a "meh" prospect, yet the gap with Svechnikov's goal scoring and general production level (traditional and advanced) was significant.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't disagree (I think there is a drop after top-2) and posted this earlier of how I feel the ranking looks if you put a grade to the player:

1. Rasmus Dahlin (100)
2. Andrei Svechnikov (96 - this was 98 earlier but I lowered it a bit to separate the difference I feel between the two)

3. Adam Boqvist (93 - this was 94 earlier but I lowered it a bit to compensate my re-grading of Svechnikov)
4. Oliver Wahlstrom (92)
5. Filip Zadina (91)
6. Quinn Hughes (90)

7. Noah Dobson (88)
8. Jesperi Kotkaniemi (87)
9. Ty Smith (87)
10. Brady Tkachuk (86)

11. Evan Bouchard (85)
12. Vitaly Kravtsov (84)
13. Filip Hallander (83)
14. Jonatan Berggren (82)
15. Isac Lundestrom (81)
16. Joel Farabee (80)

17. Ty Dellandrea (79)
18. Jonathan Tychonick (77)
19. Rasmus Kupari (77)
20. Martin Kaut (77)
21. Nils Lundkvist (76)
22. Dominik Bokk (75)
23. Alexander Alexeyev (75)
24. Rasmus Sandin (70)

25. Grigori Denisenko (68)
26. Joseph Veleno (68)
27. Jacob Olofsson (67)
28. Barrett Hayton (66)
29. Jesse Ylonen (65)
30. Bode Wilde (64)
31. Liam Foudy (63)

Basically, #3 to #6 is close, though this is how I feel about those 4 players.

I dont believe Wahlstrom to be ahead of Zadina, id put both at a solid 92.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Didn't take long for some revisionist history to occur now that people think we are getting Zadina over Svech.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Also Zadina is very much capable of creating his own offence. The narrative that he was riding shotgun next to Necas is not accurate.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The one where Zadina was outscored by Brady Tkachuk ?

How about this: Zadina had the best center in the tourney (with Mittelstadt) and given prime ice time from the get go.

Svechnikov was coming back from a broken hand, playing for a coach that never plays 17 year olds. He was played on the fourth line yet still put up ppg. Only 1 Russian (Kostin) managed to out-ppg him.

That's what you call an even playing field ? Come on.

Zadina produced with his opportunity while Svechnikov also did produce with his opportunity. However, Zadina also outplayed Svechnikov at the prospects game. Do I think Zadina is better because of this? No! These are examples I present you showing you that the gap between them is not significant.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Let's also confirm that Svech had 9/10 scouts put him at #2 in McKenzie's rankings. If you extrapolate that, only 3 teams in the league disagree, or 10% that Svech isn't #2. That's like the percentage of flat earthers in the world.

 

[Mrb1p]

Didn't take long for some revisionist history to occur now that people think we are getting Zadina over Svech.

God its so annoying... now Zadina was better than Necas, Svechnikov was not impressive.... FFS.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Basically, Svechnikov is a better prospect than Zadina, but it doesnt mean he will end up a better nhler.

Similar to how Puljujarvi was seen as a better prospect than Dubois, but right now Dubois is better ainec

 

[Runner77]

Drouin would be much better on the wing with a legitimate C.

Drouin would be better just playing where he belongs, so yeah imagine playing on the wing and on top of that, providing him with a bona fide top 6 C.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I think doing a lot with little is more impressive than doing a lot with a lot.

There's just no way that Svech isn't undisputably better right now than Zadina. Eye test confirms. Stats confirms. Advanced state confirms.

Has anybody stated Svech isn't the better prospect? I haven't seen it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Basically, Svechnikov is a better prospect than Zadina, but it doesnt mean he will end up a better nhler.

Similar to how Puljujarvi was seen as a better prospect than Dubois, but right now Dubois is better ainec

Yeah and Aidan Dudas might be the next Wayne Gretzky.

 

[sandviper]

I dont believe Wahlstrom to be ahead of Zadina, id put both at a solid 92.

Yeah, I won't argue that either. I feel Wahlstrom is ahead as I feel he can do everything Zadina can, plus is a stronger skater, but at the same time, we're not talking a huge difference. I hesitated providing those grades because that implies for somebody just looking at my numbers that Dahlin is 2,500% better than whoever is #62 overall ranking assuming I would continue grading downwards until I hit one.

I think I said it somewhere though that even though I rate Wahlstrom higher, I would pick Zadina before him. Or maybe I didn't, I dunno. It would make no sense given my own ratings, lol.

#3 to #6 is such a cluster...

My main takeaway, outside "grades" is there is a separation from #2 to #3.

 

[Andrei79]

Zadina produced with his opportunity while Svechnikov also did produce with his opportunity. However, Zadina also outplayed Svechnikov at the prospects game. Do I think Zadina is better because of this? No! These are examples I present you showing you that the gap between them is not significant.

Yes, I understood what you were doing, that's why I'm arguing against the value of both of those examples, especially a one game skills exhibition. That's what a discussion is: normally you would further your own case at this point. Pointing back to what I already know of your thoughts does, well, nothing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes, I understood what you were doing, that's why I'm arguing against the value of both of those examples, especially a one game skills exhibition. That's what a discussion is: normally you would further your own case at this point. Pointing back to what I already know of your thoughts does, well, nothing.

lol. Do you have any material to support your opinion or are you going to use this pointless card again? Not my problem if you can't debate and if you can't handle it when someone has a different opinion than you do.