2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[Runner77]

I don't really enjoy rehashing what's readily available on the first page. But, until my posts about the separation between players 3 to 7 (and even 10), that means for about 20 pages or so, there was no argument for Tkachuk made, at all. Two posters said they liked him, that's basically it.

The consensus was Zadina was the clear no.3 and some went further comparing him to Svechnikov. Posters were bashing "whiners" (like you should be happy to miss out on Dahlin or Svech with the state of this team the last 25 years) and not understanding this point: that after 1-2, there's a clear separation but the next 7-8 players are all close, hence why picking 3rd is not much of a jump up from our lowest possible position.

I don't know which 20 pages you're referring to, I thought you had meant the first 20 which I just read. And there was a lot of Tkachuk talk there, prompting W3K to come up with the analogy between choosing prime rib steak or BBQ sauce to signify how Tkachuk was an accessory.

Regardless, none of us are going to go back to the thread and conduct an audit so let's stick to the point you're trying to make. You're suggesting that players ranked 3-8 don't have much separation between them? If that's your position, then you're advocating that there is no significant separation between Zadina and Tkachuk.

 

[sandviper]

HEY GUYS I THINK WE NEED A CENTER DOES ANYONE KNOW IF BRADY TKACHUK IS A CENTER

NO! WE NEED A CENTER THOUGH AND I WOULD USE OUR #3 FOR VELENO. THEN TRADE PATCHES FOR TKACHUK. WIN.

 

[NotProkofievian]

There's not much separating prospects 3-8. That's why we can under no circumstances select Kotkaniemi at 3. Because those two concepts can coexist.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't know which 20 pages you're referring to, I thought you had meant the first 20 which I just read. And there was a lot of Tkachuk talk there, prompting W3K to come up with the analogy between choosing prime rib steak or BBQ sauce to signify how Tkachuk was an accessory.

Regardless, none of us are going to go back to the thread and conduct an audit so let's stick to the point you're trying to make. You're suggesting that players ranked 3-8 don't have much separation between them? If that's your position, then you're advocating that there is no significant separation between Zadina and Tkachuk.

Except Tkachuk isn't in most of our top 8, and even then, no I don't think there's much separation between Tkachuk and Zadina.

 

[Andrei79]

I don't know which 20 pages you're referring to, I thought you had meant the first 20 which I just read. And there was a lot of Tkachuk talk there, prompting W3K to come up with the analogy between choosing prime rib steak or BBQ sauce to signify how Tkachuk was an accessory.

Regardless, none of us are going to go back to the thread and conduct an audit so let's stick to the point you're trying to make. You're suggesting that players ranked 3-8 don't have much separation between them? If that's your position, then you're advocating that there is no significant separation between Zadina and Tkachuk.

No, Tkachuk isn't part of those 3 to 8.

And the thread I was referring to is the lottery GDT, the same one you cited. Not this one.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If you value goal scoring higher than assists, and you correctly value Defense as a higher importance position.. it's easy to see why the majority of us have Tkachuk rated later.

You also have to calculate room to grow, time at this age is huge and the players in the Convo with Brady are half a year younger.

 

[bleuetbio]

Necas and Zadina will be superb on the Canes 1st line....

 

[WeThreeKings]

Consider also that somehow our scouting group thought Tinordi was worth trading up for and passed on Kuznetsov.

 

[Runner77]

Except Tkachuk isn't in most of our top 8, and even then, no I don't think there's much separation between Tkachuk and Zadina.

I've reviewed all of the pages in this thread and indeed Tkachuk is not listed in the top 7 for any of the lists compiled by posters.

The highest rating for Katchuk amongst the posters' list is 8th and that only happens in one list.

Now I see why there is no argument needed to separate Zadina and Tkachuk further -- the lists are already saying so. Unfortunately, all the lists were spread out and there was no way for me to get a full understanding of where all the posters in this thread were at.

For future reference, here are all the ranking lists that posters have offered in the current version of this thread:

May as well update my rankings on here:

1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Boqvist
4. Wahlstrom
5. Zadina
6. Dobson
7. Hughes
8. Bouchard
9. Smith (extremely close to passing Bouchard)
10. Kotkaniemi
11. Tkachuk
12. Denisenko
13. Veleno
14. Kravtsov
15. Thomas
16. Farabee
17. Lundestrom
18. Kaut
19. Hayton
20. Shafigullin
21. Wilde
22. Wise
23. McIssaac
24. Berggren
25. Merkley
26. Bokk
27. Sandin
28. Kupari
29. Olofsson
30. Hallander
31. Hillis

1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Wahlstrom
4. Zadina
5. Boqvist
6. Dobson
7. Hughes
8. Kotkaniemi
9. Bouchard
10. Tkachuk
11. Kravtsov
12. Smith
13. Farabee
14. Veleno
15. Lundeström
16. Kupari
17. Lundkvist
18. Kaut
19. Berggren
20. Denisenko
21. Alexeyev
22. Olofsson
23. Hållander
24. Tychonick
25. Ylönen
26. McLeod
27. Dellandrea
28. Bokk
29. Hayton
30. Sandin
31. Gustafsson

So tough to choose after the top 2. The other players all have big positives, but some small negatives too.

Dahlin
Svechnikov

Boqvist
Wahlstrom (don't know what order for these 3 yet)
Zadina

Hughes
Dobson

Tkachuk
Smith
Bouchard
Kotkaniemi

Picking one-dimensional wingers that can't take over a game or make teammates better is not what I would want from a top-10 pick. Call me crazy, but I haven't seen anything exceptional from Wahlstrom outside of finding space and shooting - if he was a center that could half-assed play defence I'd be all over him, but he's neither of this things. Wahlstrom is an exceptionally talented shooter, he's going to be an impact player in the NHL, and I hate agreeing with Grant - but I'd pretty confidently go with Dobson, Boqvist, or Bouchard ahead of him.

Given his ability to control a game, there should be a lot more love for Bouchard. His skating concerns are way overblown on this board and they aren't going to keep him from being an NHL player. His ability to create offence consistently and with low-risk plays is NHL calibre and something that will likely transition well. He's easily one of the most intelligent players in this draft - he doesn't depend on outstanding skating or size to control a game as it's almost all from strong decision making and good reads. He should be right up there with Dobson as a #4 OA consideration IMO.

1) Dahlin
2) Svechnikov
3) Boqvist
4) Bouchard/Dobson
5) Bouchard/Dobson
6) Zadina
7) Wahlstrom

FWIW

With the draft lottery tonight, it seems like a good time to update and expand my rankings.

1	Rasmus Dahlin
2	Andrei Svechnikov
3	Adam Boqvist
4	Oliver Wahlstrom
5	Filip Zadina
6	Noah Dobson
7	Quinn Hughes
8	Jesperi Kotkaniemi
9	Evan Bouchard
10	Ty Smith
11	Brady Tkachuk
12	Vitali Kravtsov
13	Joel Farabee
14	Grigori Denisenko
15	Isac Lundestrom
16	Martin Kaut
17	Barrett Hayton
18	Joseph Veleno
19	Akil Thomas
20	Bulat Shafigullin
21	Jake Wise
22	Jonatan Berggren
23	Rasmus Sandin
24	Jared McIsaac
25	Ryan Merkley
26	Bode Wilde
27	Dominik Bokk
28	Ty Dellandrea
29	Rasmus Kupari
30	Serron Noel
31	Nils Lundkvist
32	Jacob Olofsson
33	Jonny Tychonick
34	David Gustafsson
35	Filip Hallander
36	Ruslan Ishkakov
37	Cam Hillis
38	Jett Woo
39	Jack Drury
40	Alexander Alexeyev
41	Calen Addison
42	Nicolas Beaudin
43	Danila Zhuravylov
44	Ryan McLeod
45	Liam Foudy
46	Ivan Morozov
47	Johnny Gruden
48	Alexander Khovanov
49	Cole Fonstad
50	Kevin Bahl
51	K'Andre Miller
52	Kirill Marchenko

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I'm a bit higher on Wilde than I maybe should be, especially when I prefer to look for hockey IQ above all else, but you can't ignore the tools, and I think he can be coached to be at least pretty good defensively at the NHL level.

My new list:

1 - Dahlin
2 - Svechnikov
3 - Zadina
4 - Hughes
5 - Boqvist
6 - Kotkaniemi
7 - Wahlstrom
8 - Dobson
9 - Bouchard
10 - Kravtsov
11- Tkachuk
12 - Farabee
13 - Smith
14 - Sandin
15 - Kupari

Dahlin
Tier
Svechnikov
Tier
Wahlstrom & Boqvist
Tier
Zadina & Hughes & Dobson

Still a work in progress as the ability to raise your game in the next two games in the U-18, CHL play-offs and Memorial Cup will factor in.

1. Rasmus Dahlin D SHL
2. Andrei Svechnikov RW/LW OHL
3. Adam Boqvist D SHL
4. Oliver Wahlstrom C/RW
5. Noah Dobson D QMJHL
6. Filip Zadina LW QMJHL
7. Quinton Hughes D NCAA
8. Jesper Kotkaniemi C FEL
9. Ty Smith D WHL
10. Evan Bouchard D OHL
11. Vitali Kravtsov RW KHL
12. Brady Tkachuk LW NCAA
13. Isaac Lundestrom C SHL
14. Filip Hallander LW Allsvenskan
15. Jonathan Berggren C/RW SHL
16. Joel Farabee LW USHL
17. Akil Thomas C OHL
18. Jacob Olofsson C Allsvenskan
19. Rasmus Sandin D OHL
20. Alexander Alexeyev D WHL
21. Bulat Shaffigullin F KHL
22. Nils Lundkvist D SHL
23. Rasmus Kupari C FEL
24. Barrett Hayton C OHL
25. Ruslan Iskhakov F MHL
26. Ty Dellandrea C OHL
27. Blake McLaughlin C USHL
28. Bode Wilde D USHL
29. Joe Veleno C QMJHL
30. Grigori Denisenko LW KHL
31. Ivan Morozov C MHL
32. Martin Kaut RW Cze
33. Liam Foudy C OHL
34. Danila Zhuravlyov D MHL
35. Ryan Merkley D OHL
36. Jared McIsaac D QMJHL
37. Cameron Hillis C OHL
38. Dominik Bokk RW SEL
39. Philipp Kurashev C QMJHL
40. Johnny Tychonick D BCHL
41. Jett Woo D WHL
42. Jesse Ylonen RW FEL
43. Alexander Khovanov C QMJHL
44. Cole Fonstad C WHL
45. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev C OHL
46. Jake Wise C USHL
47. Calen Addison D WHL
48. Jacob Ragnarsson D Allsvenskan
49. Jacob Bernard-Docker D BCHL
50. Niklas Nordgren RW FEL

 

[Runner77]

No, Tkachuk isn't part of those 3 to 8.

And the thread I was referring to is the lottery GDT, the same one you cited. Not this one.

I totally got that. I was trying to move the argument forward (moving away from the GDT) by asking about your take between Zadina and Tkachuk, but given Mrb1p's post about how Tkachuk is viewed by all posters in this thread, I've gotten my answer.

 

[WinterLion]

With trading down... you have to have several targets. Chances are, one or two will be available. It’s the year to do it. We need a GM to be high on Zadina!

- Target the Oilers.. Patch for their 10th pick and a 2019 or 2020 conditional pick if he re-signs.

- Target the Blackhawks for their 9th pick. Pretty sure they would love to get Zadina! Our 3rd for their 9th and we take their 2019 1st if it’s 15+ range. If 15- range, we take their 2019 2nd.

Pretty sure we can get two of Wahlstrom, Hughes, Smith, Dobson, Bouchard! And we are still left with our 4-2nd’s and another solid add to the 2019 draft!

Trade downs very rarely happen. When was the last top 10 trade down?

 

[WinterLion]

My new list:

1 - Dahlin
2 - Svechnikov
3 - Zadina
4 - Hughes
5 - Boqvist
6 - Kotkaniemi
7 - Wahlstrom
8 - Dobson
9 - Bouchard
10 - Kravtsov
11- Tkachuk
12 - Farabee
13 - Smith
14 - Sandin
15 - Kupari

Nice job!!!

 

[WinterLion]

Obviously now Kotkaniemi has moved up everybodys list.

Hey @TT1 pat me on the back for doing it before everyone.

Yeah well done!! Honestly, I'd consider him at 3. He really grows on you. I'm pretty sure he'll be a 1C... I have him above Boqvist and Wahlstrom...

 

[WinterLion]

For what it's worth.. that's what Grant has the Habs doing. My concern is.. I just don't think Kotkaniemi has the skating or the upside in his skating to be a Centre at the next level. I think that's the biggest draw back.

hmm.. yeah his skating needs work. That's true, but he's very smart and has a really good combination of vision and shot... If you think the skating will get there and he can bulk up a bit you might have a real diamond in the rough

 

[WinterLion]

I agree he should be a target but not at 3.

Pacioretty for pick 8?

Why not at 3? He's definitely in the same conversation as Wahlstrom and Boqvist... he's a C and one of the younger players...

 

[NotProkofievian]

Why not at 3? He's definitely in the same conversation as Wahlstrom and Boqvist... he's a C and one of the younger players...

They're just not ready yet.

 

[Habs Icing]

Necas and Zadina will be superb on the Canes 1st line....

actually, I just tried draftwire 4 times and they had Carolina picking up Tkachuck all four times

 

[WinterLion]

They're just not ready yet.

Zadina is more NHL ready, and will probably have a bigger impact right away (maybe Tkachuk too...) ... but I'd be happy to wait on a guy that will finally fill the 1C role...

 

[NotProkofievian]

Zadina is more NHL ready, and will probably have a bigger impact right away (maybe Tkachuk too...) ... but I'd be happy to wait on a guy that will finally fill the 1C role...

No, I mean, jabronis in this thread are just not ready to admit Jesperi is that good yet.

 

[WinterLion]

No, I mean, jabronis in this thread are just not ready to admit Jesperi is that good yet.

Haha yeah I got it! I was just going on... I can see how that was confusing now!

 

[jaffy27]

My list....

Buf- Dahlin
Car- Svechnikov
MTL- Zadina
Ott- Boqvist
Arz- Tkachuk
Det- Hughes
Van- Whalstrom
Chi- Bouchard
NYR- Dobson
EDM- Smith

HABS trade Pacioretty and their own 2nd to Florida for Matheson and FLA's first pick and select either Kotakiemi or Valeno

 

[The Great Weal]

I think Detroit takes Tkachuk.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

NO! WE NEED A CENTER THOUGH AND I WOULD USE OUR #3 FOR VELENO. THEN TRADE PATCHES FOR TKACHUK. WIN.

Please tell me why Ottawa or Arizona would trade their top pick for one year of Pacioretty?

 

[Riggins]

Just need Svechnikov to tell Carolina he doesn't want to play for them. Is that too much to ask?

 

[sandviper]

Please tell me why Ottawa or Arizona would trade their top pick for one year of Pacioretty?

What, really? Do I really got to put the ?

SMH