2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[NotProkofievian]

I think the determining factor is whether it's easier to get a Zadina or a Tkachuk in 2019 or 2020.

If you can get a big, talented power winger in 2019, you take Zadina this year.

If your scouts think 2019 is filled with talented offensive wingers, you take Tkachuk.

I just think I'd much rather add Tkachuk to the organization than just drafting offensive gifted wingers. Tkachuk adds a dynamic that could really help with building a proper team. That's why Edmonton went out and overpaid for Lucic. They have drafted RNH, Puljujarvi, etc. but they needed a guy that could make an impact without just scoring goals.

I think Tkachuk is that guy.

You see what his brother is doing in Calgary. You guys will get your Gaudreau and Monahan at some point but if you pass on that big, talented, aggressive winger this time around, it could take a while before you have a crack at one.

And how did that work out for them?

 

[The Great Weal]

Its easier to get wingers than centers, no matter the year. Top 6 wingers plus centers that get converted to W, etc. Its always been like that, look at the Habs winger lineup vs centers over the past decade.

A Dach-Kotkaniemi-Poehling-Danault-DLR center depth would be unbelievable and set us up for at least a decade. I know BPA, but is Zadina really BPA?

 

[Scott Malkinson]

And how did that work out for them?

Terribly.

It's better to get a 18 or 19 year old Lucic than try and add him through free agency.

That was my point.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

A Dach-Kotkaniemi-Poehling-Danault-DLR center depth would be unbelievable and set us up for at least a decade. I know BPA, but is Zadina really BPA?

When you consider what Kotkaniemi did in Finland, as a teenager, I'm blown away by the lack of hype around him. Especially when you consider he's a centre. That looks like an ideal fit for Montreal. But they'd likely have to move down a couple spots. Not because Kotkaniemi wouldn't be worthy of the 3rd pick but it would be brilliant asset management.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Terribly.

It's better to get a 18 or 19 year old Lucic than try and add him through free agency.

That was my point.

People have been looking for the next Lucic since the first Lucic, and they haven't found him. Lucic was as much an era as he was a player. IMO, he didn't suddenly become a totally different player: the league changed, and it drastically decreased his value. I don't particularly feel like spending a 3rd overall pick to find out if I'm wrong about this.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

People have been looking for the next Lucic since the first Lucic, and they haven't found him. Lucic was as much an era as he was a player. IMO, he didn't suddenly become a totally different player: the league changed, and it drastically decreased his value. I don't particularly feel like spending a 3rd overall pick to find out if I'm wrong about this.

I think Tkachuk is better than Lucic was at that age.

Calgary seems happy with their Tkachuk.

I genuinely feel like Brady will explode for 50+ points in the NCAA next year.

He has all the tools. Big, strong, good skater and really soft hands.

We'll see what happens though. If he ends up in MTL or Ottawa, I'll be nervous.

 

[NotProkofievian]

When you consider what Kotkaniemi did in Finland, as a teenager, I'm blown away by the lack of hype around him. Especially when you consider he's a centre. That looks like an ideal fit for Montreal. But they'd likely have to move down a couple spots. Not because Kotkaniemi wouldn't be worthy of the 3rd pick but it would be brilliant asset management.

It's been a broken record around here: ''I DON'T LIKE HIM BECAUSE SKATING I DON'T LIKE HIM BECAUSE SKATING I DON'T LIKE HIM...'' It'd be great if Montreal fans paid attention across the league, to elite players in other organizations who, as a matter of fact, managed to significantly improve their skating post draft.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

It's been a broken record around here: ''I DON'T LIKE HIM BECAUSE SKATING I DON'T LIKE HIM BECAUSE SKATING I DON'T LIKE HIM...'' It'd be great if Montreal fans paid attention across the league, to elite players in other organizations who, as a matter of fact, managed to significantly improve their skating post draft.

I remember Kopitar, when he was in his draft year. He fell to 11th because of two reasons. First one being his skating and the second being the fact that he was Slovenian. Skating can improve. If his skating was that bad, he wouldn't have put up 29 points in a men's league as a 17 year old kid.

His draft year has been exceptional for a kid that young.

 

[Runner77]

The situation is different now.

You guys see what it is. There is no way the market would accept a Shaw trade this time around.

There is no way for Bergevin to even justify making a move like that.

It would be career suicide. I really don't think you guys have anything to worry about. Even with MB at the helm. I think he's in a position where there is really only one option and that is to build it properly. He might go out and move picks for a 20-something year old player but I think he can salvage those picks by moving guys like Petry or Max.

I get the sense of uncertainty and anxiety, though.

I don't think there is anything justifying the type of outlook you're suggesting in the above post.

You didn't seem as upbeat about Bergevin in the following posts you offered elsewhere:

Matthews, Marner and Nylander will hit UFA status in 5 years.

They are controllable assets until then.

It's not a matter of having a crystal ball. The Toronto management team has proven that they don't make stupid decisions. The only questionable signing in the last 3 years under Brendan Shanahan has been Nikita Zaitsev for 6 more years at $4.5M per. Even then, he's still a very serviceable defenceman and he's signed through the age of 33. Whereas Montreal has Karl Alzner, an inferior player, signed through the age of 34 at a slightly higher cap hit.

Toronto fans aren't concerned. You can't instill fear and anxiety into the fan base anymore.

We actually trust our management. They've earned the trust through their decisions.

That might be a foreign concept to the Habs fan base under Bergevin but it's a thing.

Aside from Price and arguably PK Subban, you haven't had a young elite talent since Guy Lafleur.

Not sure how you think you're qualified to help.

Your team mishandled both the Price and Subban contracts. We have Twitter and the internet, we have been keeping tabs on Bergevin ruining your organization. We don't need Habs fans trying to guide us through building a contending team.

So, I'll turn the tables on you -- no one needs Trana fans to say one thing in one forum and another in here, pining for the likes of Tkachuk and providing hollow reassurances how it's all good under Bergevin. We know what we have with Bergevin, no amount of sugarcoating whether well-intentioned or not, is going to change that. We're at a disadvantage going into the draft and we will continue to be until the current management is jettisoned.

And yes, Trana has put the right people in place. Kudos to them.

 

[MD thaivuN]

when it comes to improving skating, you have to ask if it is a "is it a technical issue?" or "is an athletic problem?". Technique can be improved if the player is a good athlete. If the athlete is just slow-feeted, there's only so much you can do.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

I don't think there is anything justifying the type of outlook you're suggesting in the above post.

You didn't seem as upbeat about Bergevin in the following posts you offered elsewhere:

So, I'll turn the tables on you -- no one needs Trana fans to say one thing in one forum and another in here, pining for the likes of Tkachuk and providing hollow reassurances how it's all good under Bergevin. We know what we have with Bergevin, no amount of sugarcoating whether well-intentioned or not, is going to change that. We're at a disadvantage going into the draft and we will continue to be until the current management is jettisoned.

And yes, Trana has put the right people in place. Kudos to them.

Bergevin has done some terrible things but I don't think he's in a position to continue making those mistakes going into this draft. Obviously, there is a rivalry between my team and yours. I don't think anyone here thinks I love the Habs but based on my following of the draft and observations of unsuccessful teams like Edmonton, who have built a team around just skill and failed, I genuinely do feel that either Tkachuk or Kotkaniemi would be a much better option than Zadina.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think Tkachuk is better than Lucic was at that age.

That pretty much goes without saying. What we're after, though, is the impact that Lucic had during the brief period of 2010-2013. I personally don't see anyone being that kind of player: one, because Lucic was a bit of a psycho, and two, because the league essentially allowed him to be during this time frame.

Calgary seems happy with their Tkachuk.

I genuinely feel like Brady will explode for 50+ points in the NCAA next year.

He has all the tools. Big, strong, good skater and really soft hands.

We'll see what happens though. If he ends up in MTL or Ottawa, I'll be nervous.

I'd be more nervous if I were a Toronto fan and Wahlstrom ended up on either of those teams. Getting scored on sucks, and he can score from anywhere.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

That pretty much goes without saying. What we're after, though, is the impact that Lucic had during the brief period of 2010-2013. I personally don't see anyone being that kind of player: one, because Lucic was a bit of a psycho, and two, because the league essentially allowed him to be during this time frame.

I'd be more nervous if I were a Toronto fan and Wahlstrom ended up on either of those teams. Getting scored on sucks, and he can score from anywhere.

Yeah, Wahlstrom seems like a really good player but considering the offensive talent on the Maple Leafs, keeping up on the scoreboard is not that concerning. Having an opponent who's physically imposing and could erase Marner and Nylander is more of an issue for me.

Wahlstrom likely can't shut down a Marner or a Nylander, even if he pots a couple goals in a game.

Tkachuk scares me because of his physicality and attitude. What he did in that outdoor game against Canada was impressive.

 

[Runner77]

Bergevin has done some terrible things but I don't think he's in a position to continue making those mistakes going into this draft. Obviously, there is a rivalry between my team and yours. I don't think anyone here thinks I love the Habs but based on my following of the draft and observations of unsuccessful teams like Edmonton, who have built a team around just skill and failed, I genuinely do feel that either Tkachuk or Kotkaniemi would be a much better option than Zadina.

If Bergevin wasn't in a position to do as he's done for 6 off seasons, we would have found out before now. He is what he is, not amongst the elite GMs of league and needs to go. He's not suddenly going to make better moves just because he's running out of time.

You like Tkachuk and that's great. I hope Ottawa enjoys him or whoever it is that takes him.

You had it right when you wrote:

We actually trust our management. They've earned the trust through their decisions.

That might be a foreign concept to the Habs fan base under Bergevin but it's a thing.

Just as the Leafs found a way out of their quagmire, we'll swallow our bitter pill and find a way out of ours.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

If Bergevin wasn't in a position to do as he's done for 6 off seasons, we would have found out before now. He is what he is, not amongst the elite GMs of league and needs to go. He's not suddenly going to make better moves just because he's running out of time.

You like Tkachuk and that's great. I hope Ottawa enjoys him or whoever it is that takes him.

You had it right when you wrote:

We actually trust our management. They've earned the trust through their decisions.

That might be a foreign concept to the Habs fan base under Bergevin but it's a thing.

Just as the Leafs found a way out of their quagmire, we'll swallow our bitter pill and find a way out of ours.

If you don't recall, that William Nylander draft pick happened with Dave Nonis as GM. The fan base was pretty sure we were going to pick Nick Ritchie at 8 but they completely shocked us by going after skill and upside. Shortly after that pick was made, Nonis was fired. I think the ideal situation for the Habs is if upper management has told MB to proceed with the future in mind and not look at short-term success. At the end of the day, there is a chain of command.

As much as I may dislike your team, while the games go on, there is still respect there.

I hope you guys rid yourselves of MB. He's a disaster.

Best of luck with the draft.

 

[Runner77]

If you don't recall, that William Nylander draft pick happened with Dave Nonis as GM. The fan base was pretty sure we were going to pick Nick Ritchie at 8 but they completely shocked us by going after skill and upside. Shortly after that pick was made, Nonis was fired. I think the ideal situation for the Habs is if upper management has told MB to proceed with the future in mind and not look at short-term success. At the end of the day, there is a chain of command.

As much as I may dislike your team, while the games go on, there is still respect there.

I hope you guys rid yourselves of MB. He's a disaster.

Best of luck with the draft.

Best of luck to you as well. Although, I'm not sure you mean it ...

I love that a fan of Marc Bergevin's team is telling us what the Maple Leafs can and cannot do.

 

[Goldenhands]

What about passing on Wahlstrom and Boqvist? Both of which have higher upsides than Zadina, we could regret not picking them.

What ifs until the cows come home, if they take Kotkaniemi that's who they think is the best choice at 3, Zadina is not the cut and dry third best player in the draft and I wouldn't be surprised if, other than Tkachuk, he's considered the worst player picked in the top 10.

Im not Boqvist's biggest fan over here, I think he is somewhat overrated and might end up disapointing the team that select him in the long run, I believe Dobson is the one with the highest upside not named Dahlin and I would pick Hughes as well over Boqvist personally... As for Wahlstrom, its no secret that I like him alot, he might have a larger toolbox than Zadina but Zadina competes harder in all 3 zones and is the most pure goalscorer of the 2, so I would say upside is similar here... Im only wondering if Kotkaniemi ends up on the wing, Is he giong to be as impactful as natural wingers and goalscorers like Zadina or Wahlstrom.?

 

[le_sean]

Dobson showed willingness to join the rush in the Mem Cup. He likes to make give-and-go's and doesn't try n do it all himself

Yeah, he’s a very intelligent defence man.

 

[le_sean]

I like Dobson but if I had to choose between him and Hughes I’d go for Hughes, we are completely stacked at RD (Weber, Petry, Juulsen, Brook, Fleury) while we have almost nothing to show for at LD.

Some are weary of picking Zadina because of our abundance of wingers, but wouldn’t it be similar to pick Dobson with the panoply of RD that we have?

Anyway, I’ve always said that Dobson seems like the most Timmins-esque pick but we desperately need a top LD and Hughes would be Weber’s ideal partner.

I see what you’re saying but I don’t think Juulsen, Brook nor Fleury show top pairing potential. I also don’t think Hughes has the potential of Dobson. You can put Noah in any situation, Hughes is never going to play on a PK.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Best of luck to you as well. Although, I'm not sure you mean it ...

That quote, taken out of context, makes me look bad.

But yes, I mean it. Despite the rivalry, I'd much rather see you guys do something good than a Vegas or Carolina.

Now, if you guys end up getting Jack Hughes, I might throw up. But I'll deal with it.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I'm not a huge fan of taking a guy like Tkachuk at #3. He's actually a very talented playmaker more than a goal scorer though. Can make plays off the rush or off the boards. He's a good head's up player.

Could be a bigger version of Mike Keane. And Tom Wilson showed how effective a physical player can be in the playoffs.

Unfortunately, we don't have an Ovechkin, Kuznetsov or a Backstrom & I don't see Tkachuk filling any of those roles.

We need to get the high end skill guys while we can, including goal scorers. Our goal scorers are simply not that good.

 

[Runner77]

That quote, taken out of context, makes me look bad.

But yes, I mean it. Despite the rivalry, I'd much rather see you guys do something good than a Vegas or Carolina.

Now, if you guys end up getting Jack Hughes, I might throw up. But I'll deal with it.

Can't wait for our traditional rivalry to resume. But, it won't be next year and we'll deal with it. At least the Leafs took steps in the right direction, so good on them.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Can't wait for our traditional rivalry to resume. But, it won't be next year and we'll deal with it. At least the Leafs took steps in the right direction, so good on them.

Tanking is a hell of a lot more fun than having a team that's not good enough to compete but in denial.

A couple more top 3 or 4 draft picks and you guys will be just fine. Ownership will wake up soon enough and bring in competent hockey people.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Couldnt disagree more. Sergachev was an absolute offensive dynamo that would tear your team apart if he felt like it or if he was given space, Dobson just doesnt do that. Hes so tamed and shows unwillingness to carry the play past the blue line.

Sergachev also has multiple brain farts a game...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I think the top 12 is pretty clear, at least by tier:

1. Dahlin

2. Svechnikov
3. Zadina
4. Tkachuk
5. Dobson

6. Bouchard
7. Hughes
8. Boqvist
9. Kotkaniemi
10. Wahlstrom

11. Smith
12. Hayton