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2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

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le_sean said:
It’s not disingenuous. How many top line wingers have been traded for centres recently? Even three years ago I doubt you could trade Max for a good centre. You’re more likely to trade a top defender for one. Need for a need.
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Look at it this way. Take Pacioretty coming out of his 2014-2016 -- and even 2017 seasons. Take any one, the earlier the better. All of them productive. All of them still offering term. And all of them placing him within the top 10 or better goal getters in the league. Tell me how that kind of profile doesn't beget a shot at a top 6 center.

Now, that's not what your post is saying. It's claiming that he has that profile right now, coming off a bad season, with little term left on his contract and nearing 30 years old. And with the acquiring team facing a large salary commitment in order to retain him past this year. And you're wondering how come the kind of profile he has now, doesn't beget a top 6C.
 
Runner77 said:
Look at it this way. Take Pacioretty coming out of his 2014-2016 -- and even 2017 seasons. Take any one, the earlier the better. All of them productive. All of them still offering term. And all of them placing him within the top 10 or better goal getters in the league. Tell me how that kind of profile doesn't beget a shot at a top 6 center.

Now, that's not what your post is saying. It's claiming that he has that profile right now, coming off a bad season, with little term left on his contract and nearing 30 years old. And with the acquiring team facing a large salary commitment. And you're wondering how come the kind of profile he has now, doesn't beget a top 6C.
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They tried to trade him last season when he had term. A team would have had him for two seasons and he came off a 35 goal season the year before, he wasn’t on some decline.

Plus you pretty much proved my point. He’s been a Top 10 winger for a handful of years but you could never trade him for a top line centre, ever. You’d be forced to trade a Top 10 winger for a 2nd line centre. Therefore the value isn’t even comparable. That’s my point in regards to Zadina and Kotkaniemi.
 
le_sean said:
Pronman has Kotkaniemi 4th. I’m almost convinced he’s going to get picked by the Habs. Too desperate for a centre. Think about it, a realistic/optimistic outlook (production-wise) for Zadina is Pacioretty (35 goal scorer). We can’t even trade Max for a 2nd line centre despite being a PKer, a captain and having a cheap contract.

In other words, if both Zadina and Kotkaniemi reach their potential, you won’t be able to acquire Kotkaniemi by trading Zadina, even if he has the potential to be better. Just looking at it as a Bergevin logic of “assets”.
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I don't see the point of your argument.

I don't expect the player we pick with the 3rd overall to be traded... or at least not until he's 30+ years old.

So comparing the value the player will have in his prime is useless.
Bouchard is expected to go ~10th, but if he reaches his potential (1D), he should have more value than Zadina. Maybe even more than Svechnikov depending on how he ends up.
But I dont see anyone wanting to pick Bouchard with the 3rd overall pick over Zadina.
 
KawaYui said:
I don't see the point of your argument.

I don't expect him the player we pick with the 3rd overall to be traded... or at least not until he's 30+ years old.

So comparing the value of the player will have in his prime is useless.
Bouchard is expected to go ~10th, but if he reaches his potential (1D), he should have more value than Zadina. Maybe even more than Svechnikov depending on how he ends up.
But I dont see anyone wanting to pick Bouchard with the 3rd overall pick over Zadina.
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The point is the Habs will still be without good centres and have nothing they could trade for one without overpaying with multiple pieces.
 
I think that when it comes down to it, position has value. If it's a toss-up between Kotkaniemi, Zadina or Dobson- you can cut Zadina right out of the mix. If you feel Zadina is a clear cut above, then it's a debate, but centers and dmen have a way bigger impact on a game than wingers.
 
le_sean said:
The point is the Habs will still be without good centres and have nothing they could trade for one without overpaying with multiple pieces.
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Thats way too early to say.
If Kotka does end up a 1C, it will probably in 4-5 years.
A lot can happen during that time.
And you have to also take into account that Kotka is far from guaranteed of ending up a 1C.
Zadina on the other hand has a good chance of being a top 6 forward as soon as next year.

If the habs were that desperate for centers, they would have taken Brown or Jost over Sergachev
 
KawaYui said:
Thats way too early to say.
If Kotka does end up a 1C, it will probably in 4-5 years.
A lot can happen during that time.
And you have to also take into account that Kotka is far from guaranteed of ending up a 1C.
Zadina on the other hand has a good chance of being a top 6 forward as soon as next year.

If the habs were that desperate for centers, they would have taken Brown or Jost over Sergachev
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Nah, it'll probably take 8-10 years, then we can move him from wing to center.
 
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KawaYui said:
I don't see the point of your argument.

I don't expect the player we pick with the 3rd overall to be traded... or at least not until he's 30+ years old.

So comparing the value the player will have in his prime is useless.
Bouchard is expected to go ~10th, but if he reaches his potential (1D), he should have more value than Zadina. Maybe even more than Svechnikov depending on how he ends up.
But I dont see anyone wanting to pick Bouchard with the 3rd overall pick over Zadina.
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Just because you don't see anyone wanting to pick Bouchard with the 3rd overall pick over Zadina doesn't mean people shouldn't want to pick Bouchard over Zadina if they believe it's likely he'll be a #1 dman in the future.

Wingers can obviously have a lot of value and be play drivers and help teams win, but, generally speaking, a good centre or defenseman will have more value (both in terms of trade value and on ice value).

I think le_sean makes a good point about Pacioretty's value and what kind of centre he ever could have garnered in a trade. He was and maybe is an elite winger and what kind of centre could we have ever gotten for him realistically? Wingers still seem to be desirable at the draft but once drafted, how much value do they have? And how much do they really move the needle?
 
The Great Schlemko said:
It will not take Kotkaniemi 4-5 years lol
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Like, what even is hfboards today? Some jabroni on the mainboards was saying that Jesperi ''didn't do much until one tournament.''

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Genghis Keon said:
Just because you don't see anyone wanting to pick Bouchard with the 3rd overall pick over Zadina doesn't mean people shouldn't want to pick Bouchard over Zadina if they believe it's likely he'll be a #1 dman in the future.

Wingers can obviously have a lot of value and be play drivers and help teams win, but, generally speaking, a good centre or defenseman will have more value (both in terms of trade value and on ice value).

I think le_sean makes a good point about Pacioretty's value and what kind of centre he ever could have garnered in a trade. He was and maybe is an elite winger and what kind of centre could we have ever gotten for him realistically? Wingers still seem to be desirable at the draft but once drafted, how much value do they have? And how much do they really move the needle?
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Value is only important if you think of trading that player.
I dont expect to trade whichever player we draft 3rd overall.
 
Runner77 said:
Isn't value important all the time? Things change quickly, you can always convert value into value. Otherwise, you're carrying a built-in loss.
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Drouin got traded as a young 3rd overall pick. I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Galchenyuk either.
 
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