OT: 2018 Football Thread II: Everyone sucks!!!!!!

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Maybe. I'm just saying there's nothing to really base it on.
I've shown that this is definitely false. You may put more stock into other things which causes you to disagree with my conclusions but that doesn't mean you should just invalidate the plethora of things that I've based it on

We can all have opinions but I can remember Brett Ratliff and David Clowney being preseason superstars against 3rd stringers who did nothing.

The tiiiiniest pat of my argument discussed Teddy's pre-season performance. If I was basing my argument more on his performance then it'd make more sense for you to say this.

A mid 20s, former pro bowler who is returning from injury is NOT comparable to career backups on sooo many significant levels. Talent, defense reading, experience, leadership. In this specific context, i dont think what you are saying should be the thought process.

I mean I'd have been willing to keep Teddy as the #2 (even if he started) but McCown had no trade value and Bridgewater was a UFA at the end of the season. Jets need assets so keeping all 3 and not trading Bridgewater (or hoping to get slightly better picks by trading later) just isn't a wise decision IMO. It's one of the few things I thought the Jets did well (other than cutting my ticket prices :))
I understand that you feel this way. Like I said before, I think having Teddy here and starting the first few games would have had SO much more of a positive impact on the team, franchise and on Darnold now and going forward. Much more of a positive impact then a 3rd round pick. There is a possibility we find some gem, perennial all pro WR in the third but realistically if we look at how 3rd rounders do in general AND if we look at how Mac's 3rd rounders do? Looking at all this is why I feel so strongly that this was the wrong move. Keep in mind, I've freely acknowledged that Teddy might have stayed here, been awful or gotten hurt in a single quarter of action which would mean we'd have kept him for nothing. I just think it was the better move to keep him when weighing those risks against the benefits that I've noted. It's a wise decision if it helps Sam and the team way more than a 3rd

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. I can't think of many teams that have a good season after their #1 QB gets injured let alone their #2, Eagles and 2001 Pats excepted of course. Regarding Mayfield, Taylor was so bad that game he was going to be replaced anyway and the injury was just convenient in terms of timing. If Taylor is injured they can can call on Drew Stanton, their #3 QB with a $2.5 million cap hit. The Jets can simply activate Davis Webb from their practice squad for the minimum

My point is that, as far as this specific jets team goes, it's irrelevant to consider what most teams do after their starter is hurt. This does not matter for this jets team for the reasons that i gave in my last post.

Edit: Reason 1. Either way darnold starts. If you are worried that the jets season would be derailed by an injury to teddy then that means you are also worried bc sam would be starting.

But since sam is starting after teddy is traded it means that worrying about injuries is not relevant in this specific context.

Reason 2: Sometimes watching how a vet prepares is huge for young players. Examples: An extra few weeks to read defenses withput being under the gun is huge for young players. Seeing a great leader and how they command the huddle is huge for a young person. When that young person DOES get in, those extra weeks or that full season of sitting can be a huge boost. We may have seen that with mayfield. That's why i brought it up. You ignored the possibility that sitting can be more beneficial than starting immediately. That's the other reason i mentioned it.

Your point about taylor getting pulled anyway doesnt really address what i was saying but you did say you weren't understanding everything i wrote.

Also, here's a reason i didnt give. Injury replacement backups can galvanize a team. Foles last year.

Another. Matt cassel on the patriots.

Chad Pennington 2002, etc.

These are few and far between and i think it's a weak point so I preferred the other points i gave before. Still worth a mention here.

What you said about webb does not matter in this specific situation. If i was having a discussion about simply having a warm body then it'd make sense to bring up webb in this context. I'm talking about teddy having vastly more value than a warm body

Teams have 22 positions, special teams and situational positions (nickel and dime packages, 3 TE sets, etc.) and you can't have backups for everyone. A 3rd QB who virtually never plays is a luxury. Injuries are far more likely to happen to those other players.
I already addressed this in an immense amount of detail.

See my 2-3 paragraphs on Neville whatsisname

To spark notes it: the value he would have brought, had he stayed, imo FAR exceeds the value of 1 single 4th stringer. There is a risk in not keeping your 4th string lb or your 5th or 6th wr. You are ignoring that there is also risk in putting a rookie into a starting job too early. I feel it is justified taking the risk to keep teddy over a 4th stringer.

I think most GMs can figure out which 4th stringer to cut instead of trading a starting caliber QB.

Just wanted to say that if darnold was a vet and a solid, proven starter then it makes more sense to get value for Bridgewater and keep your 4th stringers. That is NOT the jets situation this year
 
Last edited:
I don't want to quote everything. I'll just repost my comments and will try to be concise - we can agree to disagree.
  • The expectation is not high for any of our QBs but Darnold as a 21yo 3OA has the highest upside. If the team doesn't think this then they made a mistake drafting him.
  • Agree that Darnold might have been better off on the bench to start the season but I don't agree that Bridgewater should have started over him.
  • IMO the Jets needed a 3rd rounder more than a 3rd QB. McCown's enough of a mentor. I don't see where you explained any of this in detail.
  • I did say "excluding the Pats" but you have to go back to 2001 with Drew Bledsoe. Cassel got tagged and traded into obscurity after the season and proved he was a fluke.
P.S. Mack was a huge need. I'd have contemplated the trade but 2 1st rounders was steep when you'd be paying him like a UFA anyway. The raiders are going to suck for a while and no guarantee those 1st rounders they got will be able to replace Mack. Gruden just said that great pass rushers are hard to find after he traded one of the best. :shakehead
 
I don't want to quote everything. I'll just repost my comments and will try to be concise - we can agree to disagree.
  • The expectation is not high for any of our QBs but Darnold as a 21yo 3OA has the highest upside. If the team doesn't think this then they made a mistake drafting him.
  • Agree that Darnold might have been better off on the bench to start the season but I don't agree that Bridgewater should have started over him.
  • IMO the Jets needed a 3rd rounder more than a 3rd QB. McCown's enough of a mentor. I don't see where you explained any of this in detail.
  • I did say "excluding the Pats" but you have to go back to 2001 with Drew Bledsoe. Cassel got tagged and traded into obscurity after the season and proved he was a fluke.
P.S. Mack was a huge need. I'd have contemplated the trade but 2 1st rounders was steep when you'd be paying him like a UFA anyway. The raiders are going to suck for a while and no guarantee those 1st rounders they got will be able to replace Mack. Gruden just said that great pass rushers are hard to find after he traded one of the best.
clip_image001.gif

I def agree with that 1st bullet, I don't think I was saying anything to contradict that. Are you saying that sitting Darnold to start the season shows a lack of confidence/expectation in him going forward. If so then I don't think it shows a lack of confidence/expectation if Darnold happened to sit to start the season. Just like it didn't when Favre was over Rodgers or when a very old Warner was over Eli.

There's a lot of ???? around Bridgewater. I just saw how he played before injury and in pre-season and made my conclusion. It's reasonable to think he wouldn't play well, that his value is at its peak already with a 3rd. I don't agree but I recognize that it's fair to think so.

To the idea we needed a 3rd rounder more than a 3rd QB. First I would say, why? Especially since we seem to fail with them all the time. If we could reasonably expect a good return, sure. I'm not confident though. My other problem is that I think it's misleading to say this is 'just a 3rd QB'. There are 3 QBs but none of them was a bum or function-less which is normally what having "just a 3rd QB" usually implies. They all would have served a critical role imo (unlike a normal 3rd QB who is quite frankly just a bum).

We had imo teddy, a starter, who could return to pro bowl form and show our rookie how to be a leader, pro, film studier, etc (I said this so many times I'm not sure how you're not seeing it but there it is again. McCown which we all know he's basically a QB coach/mentor who could suit up and deliver a few quality games if need be. We have the rookie future of the franchise. This is not a normal situation where we just have "3 QBs" with 2 backups who should never see the field.


IMO the Jets needed a 3rd rounder more than a 3rd QB. McCown's enough of a mentor. I don't see where you explained any of this in detail.

1 ...important factors like destroying the kids confidence, taking away his chance to learn behind a respected leader and vet, destroying the TEAMS confidence (i feel almost 100% they are 3-0 w teddy).

2 ...just be me analyzing football, evaluating the skills, accuracy, experience of Teddy, comparing them to what we've seen in Darnold while also looking at the closeness of these last two games

3 We all know that the outcome of the games would be different (that's pretty inarguable, we could discuss if it'd truly change the WL, of course but the games would never play out the same) so I'm obviously in the camp that the different outcome would include a better WL, a better development path for Darnold and a better path to the future for this team.

4 My original point, dont forget, was ALSO about how I think it was best for Darnold to give him more time studying, practicing and seeing how Teddy goes about his business as the starter. Even if that only lasted 3 games before injury I think even that short time would have been tremendously beneficial for Sam compared to the current course.

5. The Jets for example can probably get much more mileage out of McCown as mentor and Bridgewater as mentor/vet stopgap then they will EVER get from luminaries like Jeremiah (picture not found) attaochu, Nevell Hewitt (!?), Mike P-Penne...Pennel? (Who?). Shit they have FOUR TE's. So for the Jets specifically, yes it made sense to keep these very specific 3 QBs at the cost of a....Nevell...Hewitt...Maybe Nevell becomes a superstar one day, point still stands, there are interchangable 4th stringers who are lucky to see a down that can be cut. The Jets, this specific year, with those specific guys, could have and should have kept those 3 Qb's over a guy like Neville

The following was in a response to someone else but it's still right there
6.The idea I'm putting forward is that you can take this very specific starting QB, a potential pro bowler, a mentor and a leader. You take him and you'd have a guy who could help the team MORE than a third. That's not even taking into consideration that this would be a third round pick that the GM has thus far shown himself incapable of using correctly.
In all of those

You could break down a game film too. The multitude of examples where his eyes followed one receiver only to shift over to his actual target and instantaneously throw a ball where only his guy can get it thereby showing a command of timing and an in-depth knowledge of the routes. You can look at the multiple times he led the WR perfectly. Check downs, knowing when to leave the pocket, avoiding the rush, buying that extra second, etc, etc. All the little things like these that demonstrate how valuable he'd have been to the team as well as being an additional mentor to Darnold. I think the team needed it more than it needed a three (which history shows is will probably be a bust and I think Darnold did too.

I have given reasoning revolving around game analysis, team building, future mental development of the rookie QB, etc. I don't get how you could say I haven't given any details.
 
They were not going anywhere with Teddy. If they didn't draft a QB, I would be all him over. But they did, and it changed their entire plan. They've hitched the franchise to Darnold. There's no franchise progression if Darnold sits, Teddy plays well and the team goes 8-8. He's gone after the year anyway, b/c you're not paying him big money if he had a great year.

Putting Teddy into this lineup isn't the 2008 Jets inserting Sanchez into a game management role with a great team.
This team has tons of holes. Their coaching is all around suspect. They make major mistakes all game long. Teddy isn't going to fix the fact that the o-line took stupid penalties and backed them up seemingly the entire 4th Quarter.

This year was always going to be a tough one with growing pains. Rookie QBs do that. They look great, then awful. The Lions game got a lot of us pumped up, and people forgot what we were (myself included). The Lions game also covered up some terrible play calling and coaching.
 
They were not going anywhere with Teddy.

Can't be even remotely proven. Also I think saying this misses the point of what the discussion has been about. if the thought process is simply to win more this year than I'd agree the thought process is flawed.

There's no franchise progression if Darnold sits, Teddy plays well and the team goes 8-8. .

I think that's wrong and talked about why at length. I think it's also wrong to assume they'd go 8-8.


He's gone after the year anyway, b/c you're not paying him big money if he had a great year.

Which is fair to say and is a good reason to trade him. I've been saying all along I get that but I just see more reasons to have kept him that's all.

Putting Teddy into this lineup isn't the 2008 Jets inserting Sanchez into a game management role with a great team.

I don't think this premise accurately reflects what I've been saying. Teddy imo is way better than Sanchez ever was AND whereas Sanchez couldn't help anyone else develop I have repeatedly pointed out all the ways Teddy could have helped Darnold develop while also providing a significant boost to the locker room. A boost which would have carried over when Darnold took over. Again, not saying this was definitely going to happen. But I feel extremely strongly that it would have. Right now I worry we are hurting Darnold and hindering his development while also hindering the team's development.

This team has tons of holes. Their coaching is all around suspect. They make major mistakes all game long. Teddy isn't going to fix the fact that the o-line took stupid penalties and backed them up seemingly the entire 4th Quarter.

Imo a better QB, a better leader and a stronger locker room presence helps alleviate all of those. Coaches don't have to shield the rookie, they have a more wide open array of options in the playbook, the QB can check at the line to bail them out more, the Oline doesn't have to press as much, the defense has to back off more to respect the QB meaning less pressure on your blockers. I don't even think that's even debatable that a better Qb alleviates all of those to varying degrees. What is debatable is whether Teddy would have been that. I get if you don't feel he would have or if you feel he would not have had enough of an impact to matter. There's a lot of evidence to support the idea that he would have been, I don't see any evidence to support the notion that he wouldn't have been. I'm not even saying you failed to provide any. I mean I am looking for that evidence on my own and don't see it.

This year was always going to be a tough one with growing pains. Rookie QBs do that. They look great, then awful. The Lions game got a lot of us pumped up, and people forgot what we were (myself included). The Lions game also covered up some terrible play calling and coaching.

The question I have is whether we should have started those growing pains already and if we actually are hampering his development moreso than we would have had we let him sit. I agree the Lions lost that game more than we won it.
 
Breaking News: 31 year-old RB suffers season ending injury in week 3 after averaging 2.8 yards per attempt. More on this shocking story at 11, but first, water is wet.
 
@NYR Viper 17 minutes. Army at UB. There are people sitting in the south bleachers. I've never seen that before. Happy tears, man. Happy tears.

Go Bulls.

Damn. A couple of drops, but Jackson sucks today so far. That's the worst I've ever seen Tyree play. Army's offense is so frustrating, god damn triple-option.
 
Last edited:
Darnold sucks right now, even for a rookie. He's soooo close though (to being average for a rookie). Literally an inch or 2 off on 3 crucial throws

The D has been abysmal for the jets today.

All I can do is pray the lightbulb clicks as the season goes along. Odell or an elite wr makes some of these catches though
 
Lol Tomlinson runs right past a guy who is already in the backfield. Did he really not think that this guy needed to be blocked? Pathetic blocking by the oline too. But yet again we've got our big, strong, fat, slow lineman literally ONLY reach blocking laterally bc our coaches are complete f***ing idiots. Fatass oline moves sideways when backed up against their own end zone and the D knifes right through.

Go mac. Hire an oline coach who can't coach anything but the exact opposite of what our online is 'built' for. I say built loosely bc mac has done jack and shit to build this oline
 
Loving how we go empty backfield on 3 and 1, 4 and 1. Why WOULD you want a threat of a run? Brian schottenheimers calling card.

Although we have our f***ing oline block sideways which means the f***ing line would have zero push for our rb to get that 1 yard anyway. I despise this coaching staff. Every bit as awful as AV. Putting players out of position, ego, systems that dont take advantage of the talent. Fire this clown car coaching staff
 
Literally every other starter in this league hits kearse for a td on 2 and 9 there. This is bad that he's THIS inaccurate. He's regressed. Hope he has as good a head as the jets pr bs machine claimed bc he's going to have a new OC, new coaching staff, etc next year. He's going to have to figure this shit out on his own bc this staff is actively detrimental

Edit: aaaaand there's the Bowles wasted timeout

Aaaaand there's the broken coverage 60 yrds td. Good thing u took the timeout
 
Last edited:
Jesus christ mitch trubisky. 5 TDs in 1 half. 6 total.

Another jets performance Bowles me over with how sloppy and inept it is. He's not an NFL quality head coach. You're a vet coach, you have failed to figure this shit out.

Vrable has balls in Tennessee. FG ties w 1:17 left in OT. He's going for it on 4 and 2 instead. Wwwoooooooooooowwwwwww 20+ yard gain

Mariota goes and Darnold's his throw. Wide open wr in the end zone!!!! 3rd down, no timeouts. End zone or bust aaannnd... CAUGHT leaping grab in the end zone as Mills on the Eagles has his controller disconnected.

Yay. I got to see good football today

Separate note: Lol dolphins and anyone who didn't see this coming
 
Last edited:
Shurmur is going to be fired. How do you miss the ball hitting the ground there when your own defender signals to the sideline it hit the ground
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad