OT: 2018 Football Thread: Camp is (almost) here!!!!!

[silverfish]

Word, I love Saquon as a prospect. If we traded down to 4-6 and nabbed him, I wouldn't be remotely upset.

We wasted draft capital and economic capital and just completely ignored positional value. It was stupid. It was poor.

And it's coming out now that Gettleman didn't even take trade calls, allegedly. So he was deadset on this pick.

He better be ****ing right.

Saquan has either the most or second most guaranteed money of any RB in the league. Before he's ever played a down. And this is all while we are paying Eli Manning $25M a year for **** all.

Bolded was obvious. Pick was in basically instantly. Gettleman confirmed in his interviews. Then confirmed he doesn't give a f*** about 'positional value'. So, honestly, f*** Gettleman /shrug

EDIT - Once the Browns did the thing and took Mayfield instead of Darnold, Gettleman should've had the phone in his hand

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The Giants feel Barkley is going to be special but that can be said with any team making a draft pick.

But not every team can say they drafted the best player in the draft....

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

There was talk of trades, just probably nothing that was realistic.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/dave-gettleman-giants-didnt-fall-in-love-with-a-qb/

Gettleman said he spoke to a few teams about possibly trading down. The Giants set a high price tag for the No. 2 pick and were too excited about taking Barkley to seriously consider a deal unless it was a steal.
“People call you and they want the second pick in the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog,’’ Gettleman said. “Go away, leave me alone, I ain’t got time to screw around.’’

 

[Melrose Munch]

Giants made a mistake in passing rosen. I like Saquon, but backs can be taken in the 3rd round. @Hunter Gathers.


Also, The Jets also should have drafted Rosen, but Darnold was considered the best QB.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I never thought Darnold would be there for the Jets, so I really didn't think of him as option. Kind of still stunned. There's no way when they traded up on Paddys day that they thought they had a shot at him.

His grandfather being the Marlboro Man aka actor Dick Hammer really would have sealed it for me had I known that tidbit pre-draft.

 

[silverfish]

Jets made out like bandits last night. Good for them.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Word, I love Saquon as a prospect. If we traded down to 4-6 and nabbed him, I wouldn't be remotely upset.

We wasted draft capital and economic capital and just completely ignored positional value. It was stupid. It was poor.

And it's coming out now that Gettleman didn't even take trade calls, allegedly. So he was deadset on this pick.

He better be ****ing right.

Saquan has either the most or second most guaranteed money of any RB in the league. Before he's ever played a down. And this is all while we are paying Eli Manning $25M a year for **** all.

Exactly. He completely devalued the worth of that pick. If he didn’t like the QBs, fine. Trade down, get more picks and keep getting more cheaper assets. Teams like the Patriots and Seahawks built championship teams with great scouting and cheaper talent they secured in later rounds. They had the QB position filled and kept adding cheaper talent. It is such a short-sighted move.

 

[Ghost of jas]

There was talk of trades, just probably nothing that was realistic.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/dave-gettleman-giants-didnt-fall-in-love-with-a-qb/

Gettleman said he spoke to a few teams about possibly trading down. The Giants set a high price tag for the No. 2 pick and were too excited about taking Barkley to seriously consider a deal unless it was a steal.
“People call you and they want the second pick in the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog,’’ Gettleman said. “Go away, leave me alone, I ain’t got time to screw around.’’

He approached the draft like it was the 1980s. No foresight whatsoever.

 

[silverfish]

Was wary of Gettleman to begin with but once he signed JStew, we all had to know it was gonna be a shit time for the most part.

 

[SA16]

"Best player available" is such a stupid argument. What does it even mean? How are you directly comparing a RB to a QB to a WR to a TE? Cause even if he's the best RB of all time he's less valuable than a good QB. If there was a kicker who was far better than all the others and drilled 60 yarders with regularity would he be the best player available then? It's the same thing. The positions are not important. Drafting one of them early and paying them that money doesn't make sense even if they are a potential hall of fame talent. In fact it's almost certain that Barkley will not be the best player in the draft because if any of the QB's turn into good starters they're pretty much more valuable than Barkley no matter what he does (and Barkley is no sure thing the history of RB's taken top 5 isn't even particularly good).

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Dan Orlovsky broke down the QBs here. He did a really good job of it too. I suggest watching and reading.

Breaking Down the 2018 QB Draft Class | By Dan Orlovsky

Great read thanks.

Tough to read the morning after as an NYG fan.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

If Barkley produces instantly it's a very good pick.

Let's see what Gettleman and company do tonight. OLine, OLine, OLine.

 

[silverfish]

"Best player available" is such a stupid argument. What does it even mean? How are you directly comparing a RB to a QB to a WR to a TE? Cause even if he's the best RB of all time he's less valuable than a good QB. If there was a kicker who was far better than all the others and drilled 60 yarders with regularity would he be the best player available then? It's the same thing. The positions are not important. Drafting one of them early and paying them that money doesn't make sense even if they are a potential hall of fame talent. In fact it's almost certain that Barkley will not be the best player in the draft because if any of the QB's turn into good starters they're pretty much more valuable than Barkley no matter what he does (and Barkley is no sure thing the history of RB's taken top 5 isn't even particularly good).

I think people are having a tough time separating football and hockey. In hockey, the draft needs to be best skater available. Always. Period. You can't draft for organizational need in hockey. It needs to be BPA. In football, with the way contracts work, it's all about maximizing value.

For Barkley to be worth the 2OA, he needs to have nothing short of a hall of fame career.

Again, I anticipate Barkley being a fantastic Giant. It's been a long time since we've had a talent like his at RB. Maybe we never have. But that doesn't mean taking him at 2OA was right.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

There was talk of trades, just probably nothing that was realistic.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/dave-gettleman-giants-didnt-fall-in-love-with-a-qb/

Gettleman said he spoke to a few teams about possibly trading down. The Giants set a high price tag for the No. 2 pick and were too excited about taking Barkley to seriously consider a deal unless it was a steal.
“People call you and they want the second pick in the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog,’’ Gettleman said. “Go away, leave me alone, I ain’t got time to screw around.’’

This guy does not talk like a person who should be in charge of a multi billion dollar organization.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

"Best player available" is such a stupid argument. What does it even mean?

It simply means Barkley would be the biggest impact player if you were to plug him into an NFL team right now.

 

[Matt4776]

I was really hoping for Rosen over Darnold. I'm hoping the front office sees more than I do.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

As a Jets fan I was leaning towards Rosen but then again i didnt follow CFB this past year so what do I know. From what im hearing everywhere this was a good pick for the Jets, i'm pretty hyped.

 

[SA16]

It simply means Barkley would be the biggest impact player if you were to plug him into an NFL team right now.

Don't even think this is the case because RB's don't have big impacts. I think you can get a far bigger/more valuable impact from a CB/DE right now.

I think people are having a tough time separating football and hockey. In hockey, the draft needs to be best skater available. Always. Period. You can't draft for organizational need in hockey. It needs to be BPA. In football, with the way contracts work, it's all about maximizing value.

For Barkley to be worth the 2OA, he needs to have nothing short of a hall of fame career.

Again, I anticipate Barkley being a fantastic Giant. It's been a long time since we've had a talent like his at RB. Maybe we never have. But that doesn't mean taking him at 2OA was right.

The problem is even if he has a HOF career he's still not going to be more valuable than the QB's unless all 4 turn out to be awful. It’s like being the best kicker or the best punter or the best 4th line center.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Nah, man. Keep trucking. Zero reason to just give up before you know if the picks were actually bad or not. You guys have a legitimate starting QB in Taylor right now. If Mayfield outplays him and wins the starting job, it's arguably already a good pick.

I dunno, man, we'll see.

My whole family, including my younger brother former die-hard Giants fan who is a surgical resident, have been moving away from football for years now due to the CTE thing, and I have to say it's getting to me too.

Then, there's the history: no one but another Browns fan can know what it's been to start with the Kardiac Kids & Brian Sipe, then the heartbreaking teams of "The Fumble" and "The Drive" in the mid-80s, followed by the mediocrity in the '90s, which they were just exiting when they left for Baltimore (to win), and then no team at all for several years, before the last 20 years of... just utter incompetence. Then, they hire Brown, commit to the rebuild, pass on a number of good QBs along the way in order to accumulate picks, and... dump him just before the payoff?

Throw in that I've disliked Dorsey as a frat-boy jock-mentality doosh since he replaced Sashi, and that he just passed on a bunch of better QB prospects to pick another frat-boy jock-mentality doosh in Mayfield... And then, that smug-faced asshole had to go and play "smartest guy in the room" to take Ward over Chubb? f*** that dude.

Oh, and then there's the fact that it costs me a few hundred dollars each year to watch the team? Eh, I'm thinking I'm good with the Rangers, Yankees, and Nets.

Like I said, we'll see.

 

[Ghost of jas]

This guy does not talk like a person who should be in charge of a multi billion dollar organization.

He keeps saying not to outsmart himself. I know this much, he’s not going to outsmart other GMs. He sounds like a GM who approaches building a team the way it was done 25 years ago, and it’s not how teams are built this day. Call it analytics, but, but, on a very basic level it’s about value, and he could care less about that.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Don't even think this is the case because RB's don't have big impacts. I think you can get a far bigger/more valuable impact from a CB/DE right now.



The problem is even if he has a HOF career he's still not going to be more valuable than the QB's unless all 4 turn out to be awful.

Average ones maybe not but good ones definitely do. Espeically when your team builds around it like Cowgirls and Zeke.

As for the second part...really? Do you understand how unlikely it is that any of these QB's pan out as franchise or top starters? They most likely will be 'awful'. Obviously the giants didn't see any of them (perhaps except Mayfield) as 'the guy' for the future.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Average ones maybe not but good ones definitely do. Espeically when your team builds around it like Cowgirls and Zeke.

As for the second part...really? Do you understand how unlikely it is that any of these QB's pan out as franchise or top starters? They most likely will be 'awful'. Obviously the giants didn't see any of them (perhaps except Mayfield) as 'the guy' for the future.

The Cowboys built around their line. Not Zeke.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Gettleman has been on the job four months, cut a lot of fat ,and just got what is hopefully an impact RB who can also catch.

He was obviously very influential in the Giants two recent SB wins, and he built a very competitive team in Carolina that went to the SB a few years ago, so he's not ancient. Just because he's older and gives blunt quotes, doesn't mean he's not a smart guy and competent at his job. He also has a very good track record of O and D Line guys. Let's not roast the guy yet. Let's see what he does tonight. What if he takes Hernandez or Landry to start the night? What's wrong with that.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Was wary of Gettleman to begin with but once he signed JStew, we all had to know it was gonna be a **** time for the most part.

Did you read his f***ing quote on Stewart having not lost anything over 10 years? The guy is a moron.

 

[silverfish]

Did you read his ****ing quote on Stewart having not lost anything over 10 years? The guy is a moron.

One of the more damning things that no one really ever talks about that has a major impact on sports is bias.

We hire Carolina's old GM, and one of the first things he does is overpay his old RB. Gettleman is familiar with JStew. Gettleman likes JStew. Gettleman signs JStew.

It's basically an accepted pitfall of sports. Just look at every RangerBoy post in the spec thread. This guy is this guy's agent, who knows this player from Junior B, who coached this player's mom while she was in her first trimester with him, if the Rangers hire him, look for us to bring him in. And all the responses to the post are: "wow, I didn't know that connection existed, Rangers should be top priority for this guy!".

People stick with what they know. Comfort zones. Etc...