NHL Entry Draft 2018 Draft - Prospect Discussion (Poll added)

Wth the 4th OA, who do we pick


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Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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Just relating what I was told at the time, and until we actually draft a Russian I'm not going to discount what I was told. We last drafted a Russian in 2007... and saying we tried to trade up for Sergachev again we didn't. Ottawa Senators Draft History at hockeydb.com
If we are lucky enough to pick 2nd .. I'm betting on Svechnikov... We likely won't know what they would have done
 
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BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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Just relating what I was told at the time, and until we actually draft a Russian I'm not going to discount what I was told. We last drafted a Russian in 2007... and saying we tried to trade up for Sergachev again we didn't. Ottawa Senators Draft History at hockeydb.com
Sure, fair enough.

I'll go with what I was told, and I will believe that much more than what you were told
 
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TkachukNorris79

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Jan 27, 2018
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So if we land 4 or 5, what are you guys thinking? I think 1, 2, and 3 are locked up with Dahlin, Svechnikov and Zadina. 4-9ish seems like it could go anywhere between Boqvist, Thachuk, Hughes, Wahlstrom, Bouchard and Dobson. And there are others who could creep in there. I'm personally not a big fan of Thachuk, and am really high on Wahlstrom and Dobson. Seems like it could be a crapshoot though.
 

stempniaksen

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Oct 12, 2008
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I think the organization is a lot higher on Tkachuk than people around here. I've also heard they really like Boqvist and Dobson (grain of salt of course, but it seems to line up with what others are saying). I will be extremely disappointed if our worst season in 20+ years results in us walking away with Wahlstrom.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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So if we land 4 or 5, what are you guys thinking? I think 1, 2, and 3 are locked up with Dahlin, Svechnikov and Zadina. 4-9ish seems like it could go anywhere between Boqvist, Thachuk, Hughes, Wahlstrom, Bouchard and Dobson. And there are others who could creep in there. I'm personally not a big fan of Thachuk, and am really high on Wahlstrom and Dobson. Seems like it could be a crapshoot though.

I'd like Wahlstrom. We need more skill up front and he has it.
Boqvist and Dobston would both be solid picks imo.

Wahlstrom and Boqvist will play at the U18 WC later this month.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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I think the organization is a lot higher on Tkachuk than people around here. I've also heard they really like Boqvist and Dobson (grain of salt of course, but it seems to line up with what others are saying). I will be extremely disappointed if our worst season in 20+ years results in us walking away with Wahlstrom.
What don't you like about Wahlstrom?
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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My worry is we end up at 2, the scouts clearly have Svechnikov as their 2nd best player and they don't/aren't allowed to take him cause of the Russian factor. I spoke to some guys in hockey ops with the team back in January and basically told me they wouldn't be allowed to take him, also mentioned the team was high on Tkachuk who knows if that's changed though.

Svechnikov already plays in NA and is not a flight risk. There's a big difference with taking a prospect that might never come to NA.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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So if we land 4 or 5, what are you guys thinking? I think 1, 2, and 3 are locked up with Dahlin, Svechnikov and Zadina. 4-9ish seems like it could go anywhere between Boqvist, Thachuk, Hughes, Wahlstrom, Bouchard and Dobson. And there are others who could creep in there. I'm personally not a big fan of Thachuk, and am really high on Wahlstrom and Dobson. Seems like it could be a crapshoot though.

I suspect the team will go with Tkachuk if they miss out on the big three, but I wouldn't mind Wahlstrom or Boqvist. Tkachuk will be a very good player I think, and he'd give whatever team he goes to physical dynamic.
 

Sens Vader

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Jan 23, 2016
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whos better Svechnikov or Zadina, and why?

Svechnikov's brother really hasn't done anything which surprises me

and I really dont get the hate for Tkachuk - hes good and every scout says hes really good.
 
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BondraTime

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Yeah I don't think that's the reason we've avoided Russians.
Kovalev, Gonchar, and used a 3rd to get Filitov.

Tried to trade up from 11 to get Sergachev in 2016

Wanted Sergachev from Tampa in return for Karlsson

Had Evgeny Svechnikov ranked somewhere around Chabot in 2015

Were interested and trying to sign Viktor Antipin, he signed with Buffalo.

There is no policy on not taking Russians.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. The fact we haven't taken any doesn't mean we wouldn't, especially those that played in both the USHL and OHL at 16 and 17. Those in the KHL and MHL I agree with.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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I suspect the team will go with Tkachuk if they miss out on the big three, but I wouldn't mind Wahlstrom or Boqvist. Tkachuk will be a very good player I think, and he'd give whatever team he goes to physical dynamic.

He'd definitely have Randy Lee's vote...

Seriously though... I have liked Tkachuk in any best on best tournament I've seen him in with his age group.. His production at BU is a little concerning and I can't explain it. He has a nasty element to his game, is a good size, shows good talent around the net.. He just missed being in last years draft as well, so he is almost a year older than Wahlstrom and Boqvist for example. I think he'll be a good NHL player.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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Kovalev, Gonchar, and used a 3rd to get Filitov.

Tried to trade up from 11 to get Sergachev in 2016

Wanted Sergachev from Tampa in return for Karlsson

Had EvgeniySvechnikov ranked somewhere around Chabot in 2015

Were interested and trying to sign Viktor Antipin, he signed with Buffalo.

There is no policy on not taking Russians.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. The fact we haven't taken any doesn't mean we wouldn't, especially those that played in both the USHL and OHL at 16 and 17. Those in the KHL and MHL I agree with.

I think we just don't scout Russian leagues because we prefer to focus our funds elsewhere. The russian factor (that they can make better money early on in the KHL) makes it such that drafting project guys is risky, but those guys playing in NA or the top 10-20 picks are no risk whatsoever.

I'm with you, I really don't see the org having an issue with taking a russian player, it's more of a reluctance to invest the required resources to have the scouts in a position to be high on taking a russian player.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
31,648
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Yeah I don't think that's the reason we've avoided Russians.

lol really?

Alexei Kaigorodov
Vitaly Atyushov
Igor Mirnov
Sergei Gimayev
Kirill Lyamin
Alexander Nikulin
Vitali Anikeyenko
Ilya Zubov
Dmitry Megalinsky

Ruslan Bashkirov

There was a time the team was drafting a lot of russians, some with relatively high picks. Many of them had the talent to play in the NHL but just never came. The organization (under Muckler) got burned so many times by this and it was a big reason why the team had a weak prospect pool for a while, which caused them to eventually get out of contention. In the salary cap era you need good cheap rookies to bolster your line-up. You can't come empty in several drafts, look at our drafting from 2002 to 2007

Ever heard about "the Russian Factor"? Just google it and you will find many articles of how it impacted the NHL draft. If some think that the Ottawa Senators is the only team who have taken this in consideration, they are heavily mistaken.

Russian Factor Definition - Sporting Charts

The Russian factor

Today, that "factor" is less than it was but there was a period of time were it was very REAL.

But if you want to think otherwise, fell free to do so.
 
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stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,167
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What don't you like about Wahlstrom?

I think he'll have a tough time creating his own offence at the next level. Kid can score with the best of them, but outside of some flashy stickhandling he doesn't really seem to have the skills to be a playmaker and set up his teammates. I think people are reading too much into his numbers this season, where he has been stapled to Jack Hughes' side. Maybe I shouldn't hold that against him too much, but I can't help but feel like his numbers are hugely inflated by playing with Hughes, and that he'll fall back down to earth next year.

He kind of reminds me of a JVR and/or Hoffman type of player. It's not that I have anything against that type of player (I love Hoffman for example) but I don't think he's a guy that should go top-five. I think he's going to have some issues that the NHL level that aren't going to get corrected (defensive ability, on-ice vision and playmaking) and those will hold him back from being a true star. Compare that to the other guys available in the top 5/10 and I think there will be much better options available.
 

Sens Vader

Registered User
Jan 23, 2016
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Zadina seems more like a pure goal scorer which I like and feel we need

plus hes a LW that can play across from Stone
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,167
4,492
lol really?

Alexei Kaigorodov
Vitaly Atyushov
Igor Mirnov
Sergei Gimayev
Kirill Lyamin
Alexander Nikulin
Vitali Anikeyenko
Ilya Zubov
Dmitry Megalinsky

Ruslan Bashkirov

There was a time the team was drafting a lot of russians, some with relatively high picks. Many of them had the talent to play in the NHL but just never came. The organization (under Muckler) got burned so many times by this and it was a big reason why the team had a weak prospect pool for a while, which caused them to eventually get out of contention. In the salary cap era you need good cheap rookies to bolster your line-up. You can't come empty in several drafts, look at our drafting from 2002 to 2006

Ever heard about "the Russian Factor"? Just google it and you will find many articles of how it impacted the NHL draft. If some think that the Ottawa Senators is the only team who have taken this in consideration, they are heavily mistaken.

Russian Factor Definition - Sporting Charts

The Russian factor

Today, that "factor" is less than it was but there was a period of time were it was very REAL.

But if you want to think otherwise, fell free to do so.

I think he's referring to the Melnyk factor.

Personally I don't think it would stop us from drafting a guy like Svechnikov if he fell into our laps at #2, but I think it's naive to think that's not a factor at play here as well.
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,167
4,492
Zadina seems more like a pure goal scorer which I like and feel we need

I wish he was faster though. That could be the one thing that will hold him back, not saying he'll bust, but I wouldn't be overly surprised if scouts think his ceiling is lower because of it.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
31,648
10,561
Montreal, Canada
I think he's referring to the Melnyk factor.

Personally I don't think it would stop us from drafting a guy like Svechnikov if he fell into our laps at #2, but I think it's naive to think that's not a factor at play here as well.

And what is the Melnyk factor? I don't think Melnyk has a big hand in drafting unless he is scouting himself.
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,167
4,492
And what is the Melnyk factor? I don't think Melnyk has a big hand in drafting unless he is scouting himself.

Pro Ukraine, anti-Russia. His stance isn't exactly hidden.

Like I said, it's not the be all end all factor. But we don't even have a single Russian in the entire organization, that doesn't happen by accident.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
31,648
10,561
Montreal, Canada
Pro Ukraine, anti-Russia. His stance isn't exactly hidden.

Like I said, it's not the be all end all factor. But we don't even have a single Russian in the entire organization, that doesn't happen by accident.

ok I didn't even know about that because I don't care much about Melnyk so I don't read much about him, but what about the list that BondraTime made a few posts ago (#713)?

How come if Melnyk is so "anti-Russia", all those players were acquired or attempted to be acquired? He's the one who paid Kovalev and Gonchar who were pretty big names, even if they were in the later part of their careers.
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,167
4,492
ok I didn't even know about that because I don't care much about Melnyk so I don't read much about him, but what about the list that BondraTime made a few posts ago (#713)?

How come if Melnyk is so "anti-Russia", all those players were acquired or attempted to be acquired? He's the one who paid Kovalev and Gonchar who were pretty big names, even if they were in the later part of their careers.

Gonchar and Kovalev were pre-Crimea (I think, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) so they wouldn't factor in.

Again, I'm not saying that a player being Russian automatically means they won't play for the Ottawa Senators. I'm very (fairly) sure the Senators would take Svech at #2 all things considered, and I'm sure the organization had varying levels of interest in all the players BondraTime listed. What I am saying, is that if everything is equal the organization will never take the Russian player, and I think the proof is in the pudding there, when you look at our roster.
 
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