None of these guys are Pearson, Toffoli or Lewis: Cozens, Dach and Turcotte. We are talking about guys who are ranked #3, #4 and #5. They are all clearly better prospects at their draft ages and their scouting reports reflect that. Pearson was the NA #25 Skater, Toffoli was #16, Lewis was #30.
2018-2019 Stanley Cup Playoffs
- Thread starter deeshamrock
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
None of these guys are Pearson, Toffoli or Lewis: Cozens, Dach and Turcotte. We are talking about guys who are ranked #3, #4 and #5. They are all clearly better prospects at their draft ages and their scouting reports reflect that. Pearson was the NA #25 Skater, Toffoli was #16, Lewis was #30.
SettlementRichie10
Registered User
- May 6, 2012
- 10,238
- 8,519
Exactly. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to grasp.
Hickey instead of Couture. Teubert instead of Karlsson. Forbort instead of Tarasenko.
The draft is certainly a random number generator in regards to drafting well outside of the top ten, but that’s an awful record, and only in the span of five years, too. I don’t know of many other teams who whiffed that hard on so many top twenty picks.
SettlementRichie10
Registered User
- May 6, 2012
- 10,238
- 8,519
Yeah, you definitely didn’t understand. Were our Cup teams entirely comprised of Trevor Lewises?
Sometimes you need to take a risk on a player like Podkolzin because they’re just that good. Ottawa took a risk on drafting Karlsson and wound up with the best defenseman in the league for several years.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Some of this is definitely hindsight insofar as the names mentioned outside of Tarasenko.
Voracek was the pick for me instead of Hickey and was rated as such. Couture would have been labeled a reach as well.
Karlsson was passed over by a lot of teams. Myers was the pick there but, again, Teubs was rated highly.
Trading up for Forbort was trash though, even without the Tarasenko factor. Almost like he wanted to make up for the Myers mistake.
Anyways, I don't feel like taking Turcotte over Pod would be similar to the ones mentioned above. I don't necessarily equate passing on Pod to be trying to draft a Top 9 forward at #5.
I kind of think they will take Pod, however. They plan on being bad so they can wait two years. If they think he is the 3rd best forward after Hughes/Kakko--and Byram is gone--then I think they will draft him.
For their position, those picks were successful. I think any team would be happy with drafting those 3 with those picks.
Tanner Pearson was drafted 30th overall, he is currently 4th all time for goals scored and 5th all time for points scored among players drafted at that position.
Tyler Toffoli was drafted 47th overall, he is currently 5th all time for goals scored and 6th all time for points scored among players drafted at that position.
Trevor Lewis was drafted 17th overall, he is currently 17th all time for goals scored and 17th all time for points scored, he also played a crucial defensive role for two cup wins.
I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of players drafted late in the 1st and on, you don't typically draft a successful top 6 forward once you leave the middle of the 1st. Toffoli/Pearson were outstanding picks by the scouting department in that regard.
Draft revisionist theory is the worst. It's littered with bad picks by everyone. I have been watching it for over 30 years and like clockwork, guys drop, teams overreach, scouts all of the sudden 2nd guess themselves and you have GM's who will go with their own pets rather than take the advice of guys who get paid to make the decisions. When Lewis was drafted, I was shocked because Chris Stewart was still on the board and he was ranked in the Top 10 of NA skaters. I had to go back and do a quick look at my notes on Lewis and all everyone kept talking about was how fast of a skater he was.
The Kings went chalk by taking Bernier at #11 because they needed a goalie and he was the #1 NA guy. That was a great pick and he was labelled a future star. They then went off the rails with Lewis at #17. Their next pick was Joey Ryan in the 2nd who was the #31 Ranked NA guy(One spot below Lewis) and they got him at #48 overall. Nobody could have predicted that Ryan would end up as a nothing. They then picked up the #3 ranked NA goalie in Zatkoff in the 3rd. They got Bud Holloway who was ranked #40 NA with the #86 pick in the 3rd round. On paper, outside of Lewis, the Kings looked like they drafted about where they should have in the first 3 rounds.
Lewis would have been a great pick in the 2nd round but they reached badly and he was never able to live up to expectations. As a side note though, the Top 5 in 2006 was:
Erik Johnson
Jordan Staal
Jonathan Towes
Niklas Backstrom
Phil Kessel
When you pick in the Top 5, your chances for failure are significantly reduced. It can happen but you rarely bust out and end up with Nail Yakupov.
The Kings went chalk by taking Bernier at #11 because they needed a goalie and he was the #1 NA guy. That was a great pick and he was labelled a future star. They then went off the rails with Lewis at #17. Their next pick was Joey Ryan in the 2nd who was the #31 Ranked NA guy(One spot below Lewis) and they got him at #48 overall. Nobody could have predicted that Ryan would end up as a nothing. They then picked up the #3 ranked NA goalie in Zatkoff in the 3rd. They got Bud Holloway who was ranked #40 NA with the #86 pick in the 3rd round. On paper, outside of Lewis, the Kings looked like they drafted about where they should have in the first 3 rounds.
Lewis would have been a great pick in the 2nd round but they reached badly and he was never able to live up to expectations. As a side note though, the Top 5 in 2006 was:
Erik Johnson
Jordan Staal
Jonathan Towes
Niklas Backstrom
Phil Kessel
When you pick in the Top 5, your chances for failure are significantly reduced. It can happen but you rarely bust out and end up with Nail Yakupov.
Just bolded the most underrated statement on this board, ever.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,773
This is interesting. Where were you able to find information like this? I have never seen a ranking of players by draft pick for points scored. Just curious.
I think the Kings did do well in drafting Toffoli and Pearson. I don't think their productive years lasted as long as some would have hoped. Only 4% of NHL players dress for more than 1000 games. Pearson has played almost 400 regular season games, while Toffoli has played around 550 games. Both of these guys were extremely useful in their prime production years, which happened to coincide with the best three run in Kings history. That's pretty good value for 2nd round picks.
We shouldn't be surprised that Pearson and Toffoli have had a decline in performance. Get younger, get better.
30th overall draft picks - Forwards - Games played leaders
Here is the link, it's actually a pretty fun tool to play with.
kovacro
Uvijek Vjerni
Why are we talking about the Kings in the 2018/19 playoff thread? 
Anyhow..more bad news for the Bolts.
https://www.tsn.ca/hedman-stralman-out-for-bolts-killorn-gtd-1.1291568
Anyhow..more bad news for the Bolts.
https://www.tsn.ca/hedman-stralman-out-for-bolts-killorn-gtd-1.1291568
BECAUSE!! That’s whyWhy are we talking about the Kings in the 2018/19 playoff thread?
Anyhow..more bad news for the Bolts.
https://www.tsn.ca/hedman-stralman-out-for-bolts-killorn-gtd-1.1291568
SettlementRichie10
Registered User
- May 6, 2012
- 10,238
- 8,519
I can forgive the Hickey pick because that 2007 draft was notoriously weak.
The Forbort and Teubert picks were a result of Dean’s personal drafting philosophy. Big lumbering defenseman who were never scouted as having high end skill upside. Forbort’s ceiling comparable was Rob Scuderi at the time of the draft. Why Dean felt compelled to take a player like that in the 1st round is beyond me. Very, very few shutdown defensemen taken in the first round ever amounted to more than a depth player. I mean, look no further than Toronto taking Luke Schenn so high in the 2008 draft.
I’ve argued with a lot of people on this forum about not criticizing Dean too much with the help of revisionist drafts. But the Forbort and Teubert picks were eyebrow raising even at the time.
My entire point with all this is that the Kings are not in a position to simply collect low ceiling prospects. If they’re going to be this bad, they need to hit a home run in the top five. Podkolzin has a better chance to be a home run than any of Turcotte/Dach/Cozens/etc. logjam between picks #4 - 9.
And for the record, I would be more inclined to select Turcotte over Pod if Turcotte didn’t have an injury history.
The Forbort and Teubert picks were a result of Dean’s personal drafting philosophy. Big lumbering defenseman who were never scouted as having high end skill upside. Forbort’s ceiling comparable was Rob Scuderi at the time of the draft. Why Dean felt compelled to take a player like that in the 1st round is beyond me. Very, very few shutdown defensemen taken in the first round ever amounted to more than a depth player. I mean, look no further than Toronto taking Luke Schenn so high in the 2008 draft.
I’ve argued with a lot of people on this forum about not criticizing Dean too much with the help of revisionist drafts. But the Forbort and Teubert picks were eyebrow raising even at the time.
My entire point with all this is that the Kings are not in a position to simply collect low ceiling prospects. If they’re going to be this bad, they need to hit a home run in the top five. Podkolzin has a better chance to be a home run than any of Turcotte/Dach/Cozens/etc. logjam between picks #4 - 9.
And for the record, I would be more inclined to select Turcotte over Pod if Turcotte didn’t have an injury history.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Right, but I think the exact point is that pick #5 isn't a low ceiling prospect unless we go completely off the board, and that while you want to swing for the fences, it seems like many don't agree that the difference between Podkolzin and whoever else would be available--say Dach--is worth the risk.
And I think the Blake-version drafts so far have proven the Kings aren't scared to swing for the fences, i wouldn't call many of these last few high draft picks 'safe'. Maybe JAD. Going all the way back to the Trevor Lewis draft to make an inaccurate complaint is a moot point.
- May 9, 2014
- 5,823
- 8,238
Kane is a tool but I had to laugh...
https://www.tsn.ca/kane-on-reaves-i-thought-i-was-fighting-the-muffin-man-1.1291706
https://www.tsn.ca/kane-on-reaves-i-thought-i-was-fighting-the-muffin-man-1.1291706
Little Psycho
Registered User
- May 9, 2014
- 5,823
- 8,238
I’ve never complained about a thing Drew said, ever. However if I’m a Sharks fan I’d be less than impressed, you don’t want to be giving the opposition their pre-game team talk for the coach.
riznat
Registered User
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,773
Doughty would never fight Reaves, so how could he say any of it?
Those were all DL picks... didn’t we also pick Joey Ryan Instead of Milan Lucic?
kingsboy11
Champions Again
Lightning are down 2-0 within 5 minutes. Stick a fork in them, they're done. It kind of sucks because I liked the Kings having that record beating the presidents trophy team in the 1st round.
kovacro
Uvijek Vjerni
Steve Zissou
I'll order you a red cap and a Speedo.
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
Super Bowl LIX Kansas City Chiefs vs Philadelphia Eagles - New OrleansWagers: 15Staked: $67,871.00Event closes - 4 days from now- Updated:
-
PICK ONLY ONE TEAM - 4 Nations Face-Off - ChampionWagers: 8Staked: $8,595.00Event closes - 7 days from now- Updated:
-
Sweden vs Canada - Centre Bell, MontréalWagers: 4Staked: $1,250.00Event closes - 7 days from now
- Updated: