Prospect Info: 2018/19 Marlies & Prospects Thread Part V

[horner]

Sportsnet Luke Fox on 590 today saying word around the Leafs is Lil's stock has fallen, Sandin is considered the better prospect. He then made some bizarre proposal wherein SJ takes back Marleau and we throw in Lil to sweeten the deal. Umm no.

No

Who is Luke fox.

 

[stickty111]

More Keefe praise

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Liily is playing on the top pair, and he deserves it.

Defense is not something to worry about, especially with Hollowell stepping up. Even if he didn't, Oleksy in there would still make that a strong defensive group.

Now with Korshkov likely adding to the forward group, we have more depth and guys like Jooris are on the 4th line where they belong (plus we won't need to use MacMaster or Conrad if we don't want to).

 

[as Pure as Evil]

Yegor Korshkov is in Toronto and will presumably sign tomorrow. I think it would be for 2 years, but he will finish the year on an ATO

now lets hope he proves all the naysayers wrong

 

[Magic Man]

Sportsnet Luke Fox on 590 today saying word around the Leafs is Lil's stock has fallen, Sandin is considered the better prospect. He then made some bizarre proposal wherein SJ takes back Marleau and we throw in Lil to sweeten the deal. Umm no.

He may not be the best person to take the word of given his proposal. It would make sense that Sandin would have passed him on the depth chart though.

 

[DarkKnight]

He may not be the best person to take the word of given his proposal. It would make sense that Sandin would have passed him on the depth chart though.

Yes it was a crazy idea.

 

[stickty111]

You've got a very very young defence core, any concerns there?

"No, I mean the guys have proven to be capable. I think I have said it before that certainly in Sandin and Lilly's case, when we look at them, if not for their development, their ability to take on extra responsibility throughout this season, we're probably not even playing in the playoffs. So, those guys are huge parts of this team.

A lot of them are on the smaller side too, how do they offset some of the length that they lack in terms of dedensive responsibility? Last year, you had Holl and Marincin, guys with a lot of length.

The thing we have tried to focused on the most is having them defend as little as possible, and play to their strengths. With Sandin, Lilly and Hollowell in particular, not the biggest guys, but all three of them have the ability to move the puck really well, and very efficiently. So, the better we distribute the puck amongst our team throughout the ice, it means we'll defend a little bit less, which was exactly the case in game three. Rosen's strength is able to get us out of our zone, and all those things. So, we can defend less, it's an advantage for us, but at the same time, when it has come time to defend, I think Lilly been as good as any guy we've had here. In that Rochester seeies, there are no easy shifts. He's defended really well. He's broken up a lot of rushes. Body positioning was great. Sandin's been very good at that as well. Hollowell has done a really good job of just knowing his spots, and having good gap with the foot speed that he has, he's been able to manage that really well.

 

[DarkKnight]

It's no use. People have their narratives, and don't like to hear actual facts.
.

Self awareness: LOW

 

[biotk]

There are only 3 other defencemen from his draft in the AHL, and only Brannstrom did notably better this season.

I don't think you're aware of the fact that teenagers generally don't play in the AHL. The following is a list of all the players who've played defense in the AHL at 19, EVER. The fact that even plays there competently instead of still playing Junior in Canada or the SHL, is impressive.

19-Year Old AHL Defensemen - Regular Season Stats

There were 7 other defensemen taken in Liljegren's draft within the first 3 rounds who played at least 20 AHL games this year. Despite Liljegren being the only one who had AHL experience, and despite Liljegren being the one who was most offensively touted, Liljegren finished dead last in PPG.

Valimaki (16OA) 0.700 PPG
Brannstrom (15OA) 0.640
Jokijarju (29OA) 0.567
Vaakanainen (18OA) 0.467
Hague (34OA) 0.427
Foote (14OA) 0.408
Fleury (87OA) 0.383
Liljegren (17OA) 0.349

 

[Canada4Gold]

There were 7 other defensemen taken in Liljegren's draft within the first 3 rounds who played at least 20 AHL games this year. Despite Liljegren being the only one who had AHL experience, and despite Liljegren being the one who was most offensively touted, Liljegren finished dead last in PPG.

Valimaki (16OA) 0.700 PPG
Brannstrom (15OA) 0.640
Jokijarju (29OA) 0.567
Vaakanainen (18OA) 0.467
Hague (34OA) 0.427
Foote (14OA) 0.408
Fleury (87OA) 0.383
Liljegren (17OA) 0.349

TBH I'd rather not get involved in this fight, but here I go. I'll toss out the point that 4 of those other 7 were late birthdays and technically no longer juniors playing their 20 year old aged season in the AHL opposed to Lil, Jok, Vaak, and Brannstrom who were all 19 for most if not all of the year. The 3 Canadians were only in the AHL because of this fact. Wouldn't have otherwise been eligible.

People like to argue the merits of that as well. I'm not here to tell you you have to believe in the benefits of late v. early birthdays in development. Just stating that fact and then running before the wolves arrive.

 

[biotk]

Sportsnet Luke Fox on 590 today saying word around the Leafs is Lil's stock has fallen, Sandin is considered the better prospect. He then made some bizarre proposal wherein SJ takes back Marleau and we throw in Lil to sweeten the deal. Umm no.

It's a dumb proposal. But people are going to be shocked when they see how little return Liljegren brings when he is traded.

 

[Cor]

Liily is playing on the top pair, and he deserves it.

HiS sToCk HaS fAlLeN

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's a dumb proposal. But people are going to be shocked when they see how little return Liljegren brings when he is traded.

Since when is this anything the Leafs should consider? Why would they trade their best RD prospect by far when they need RD right now, and definitely going forward?

I'd like to keep our blue chip prospects as much as possible. Especially when they are RD puck movers with two-way ability...

 

[Keep Sorokin Me Babe]

It's a dumb proposal. But people are going to be shocked when they see how little return Liljegren brings when he is traded.

I'm genuinely curious why you're so sour on Liljegren when you admit that you didn't watch him play this season. Is it purely because of the basic offensive stats such as PPG that may or may not be taken out of context?

 

[biotk]

A 2 page reply followed by a 4 page reply to basically say what could be said in one sentence:

Against his peers, he excels offensively while playing against levels above his peers his offense has yet to translate.

If you read my post you didn't seem to understand it.

Liljegren excelled offensively both against his peers and while playing against levels above his peers (like his great season in the SuperElit when 16 against players 2-3 years old) pre-mono (and the injury and illness interruptions that he has had since).

Liljegren has not excelled offensively against either his peers or while playing up since.

He had 15 in 18 games in the three international tournaments he played in the year before his draft year (the leading scorer on his team in two of them and the leading D scorer in the other). He had 4 points in 14 games in the two international tournaments he has played since (one late in his draft year and one in his D+1) 11th and 15th in team scoring. Far behind the leading D or Ds on the team. These have been mostly with the same teammates in these 5 tournaments.

 

[horner]

There were 7 other defensemen taken in Liljegren's draft within the first 3 rounds who played at least 20 AHL games this year. Despite Liljegren being the only one who had AHL experience, and despite Liljegren being the one who was most offensively touted, Liljegren finished dead last in PPG.

Valimaki (16OA) 0.700 PPG
Brannstrom (15OA) 0.640
Jokijarju (29OA) 0.567
Vaakanainen (18OA) 0.467
Hague (34OA) 0.427
Foote (14OA) 0.408
Fleury (87OA) 0.383
Liljegren (17OA) 0.349

Who f***ing cares .
Jesus man can you just let it go.
Holly shit.
So he's not going to be a grt point producer wow.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Since when is this anything the Leafs should consider? Why would they trade their best RD prospect by far when they need RD right now, and definitely going forward?

I'd like to keep our blue chip prospects as much as possible. Especially when they are RD puck movers with two-way ability...

*Insert dumb post about what trading Liljegren has to do with keeping Blue chip prospects*

 

[Kiwi]

If you read my post you didn't seem to understand it.

Liljegren excelled offensively both against his peers and while playing against levels above his peers (like his great season in the SuperElit when 16 against players 2-3 years old) pre-mono (and the injury and illness interruptions that he has had since).

Liljegren has not excelled offensively against either his peers or while playing up since.

He had 15 in 18 games in the three international tournaments he played in the year before his draft year (the leading scorer on his team in two of them and the leading D scorer in the other). He had 4 points in 14 games in the two international tournaments he has played since (one late in his draft year and one in his D+1) 11th and 15th in team scoring. Far behind the leading D or Ds on the team. These have been mostly with the same teammates in these 5 tournaments.

We don't need him to produce points at a high rate

We need someone who can eat minutes, play a 2way game and transition the puck up ice to our forwards

The fact he's on the PK and defends against the other team's best offensive players in the AHL at his age is what actually interests me looking at our organization right now

 

[Duke16]

I don't buy what Friedman is saying for a second. For the record, I have also heard that OHL scouts have soured on Durzi too.

 

[supermann_98]

Sportsnet Luke Fox on 590 today saying word around the Leafs is Lil's stock has fallen, Sandin is considered the better prospect. He then made some bizarre proposal wherein SJ takes back Marleau and we throw in Lil to sweeten the deal. Umm no.

That was so random and dumb. Don't understand how imbeciles like that get radio gigs

 

[Magic Man]

I think Liljegren will see a big jump in production next season. He has the potential to be an impact scorer, but it may never materialize.

 

[supermann_98]

There were 7 other defensemen taken in Liljegren's draft within the first 3 rounds who played at least 20 AHL games this year. Despite Liljegren being the only one who had AHL experience, and despite Liljegren being the one who was most offensively touted, Liljegren finished dead last in PPG.

Valimaki (16OA) 0.700 PPG
Brannstrom (15OA) 0.640
Jokijarju (29OA) 0.567
Vaakanainen (18OA) 0.467
Hague (34OA) 0.427
Foote (14OA) 0.408
Fleury (87OA) 0.383
Liljegren (17OA) 0.349

Ever crossed your mind they want him to learn the defensively responsible role before he's asked to open it up offensively?

Reilly wasn't exactly a big point producer his first few years and look at him now

 

[Fogelhund]

Look, predicting what Defenseman will become is a bit of an unpredictable game. Sure, Liljegren hasn't excelled this past year in the AHL, at scoring.

He scored at a rate of 0.34 PPG. Development isn't linear, and we don't know if this was a bad year, or what he will be. If he is a good puck moving guy, who can play the PK... that fits a need for us.

That said, Duncan Keith scored at a 0.33 PPG rate at 20 in the AHL, and at a 0.32 PPG rate at 21 in the AHL. He seemed to turn out ok, but many Hawks fans were ready to give up on him at one point.

A guy like Brooks Orpik, wasn't particularly good in the AHL, but developed into a very good defensive D in the NHL... I'd take that.

Klefblom put up 0.25PPG at age 20 in the AHL, he was better in the NHL.

Mike Hoffman put up .33PPG as a forward in his 21 year old season in the AHL.

-------------------

I think we are micro-analyzing, unfinished players, and trying to draw conclusions... we can all see the stats, and see that we wished he scored more this year... but to draw conclusions... patience.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

Look, predicting what Defenseman will become is a bit of an unpredictable game. Sure, Liljegren hasn't excelled this past year in the AHL, at scoring.

He scored at a rate of 0.34 PPG. Development isn't linear, and we don't know if this was a bad year, or what he will be. If he is a good puck moving guy, who can play the PK... that fits a need for us.

That said, Duncan Keith scored at a 0.33 PPG rate at 20 in the AHL, and at a 0.32 PPG rate at 21 in the AHL. He seemed to turn out ok, but many Hawks fans were ready to give up on him at one point.

A guy like Brooks Orpik, wasn't particularly good in the AHL, but developed into a very good defensive D in the NHL... I'd take that.

Klefblom put up 0.25PPG at age 20 in the AHL, he was better in the NHL.

Mike Hoffman put up .33PPG as a forward in his 21 year old season in the AHL.

-------------------

I think we are micro-analyzing, unfinished players, and trying to draw conclusions... we can all see the stats, and see that we wished he scored more this year... but to draw conclusions... patience.

Not only that but we have history of telling players to focus on the defensive end of the game. Mo being the most prominent example. you teach them to play defense the proper way and once they have learned you loosen the leash a bit at a time

 

[Leafs at Knight]

I don't buy what Friedman is saying for a second. For the record, I have also heard that OHL scouts have soured on Durzi too.

If anything King's fans should be worried about their GMs player evaluations.