Prospect Info: 2018/19 Marlies & Prospects Thread Part V

[frizzer1]

Liljegren is better at hockey now then he was a year ago. His offence hasn’t taken off like we all hoped for, but he is a more complete player. He also still possesses elite vision and passing, and is an above average skater as far as prospects go.

He will be an nhl dman, i think next year we’ll have a much better idea as to just how good of one he can be. Aside from injuries slowing things down for him.. i am just fine with how he has developed thus far.

Liljegrin is talented.
I think everyone agrees with that.
If I didn’t know anything about him I’d think that the conversation was about a 22 or 23 year old who is not progressing.
He’s just 19 folks and could be still in junior.

 

[biotk]

The reality is this, when Liljigren was given more responsibility you expected the same flashy player as last year when he was a 3rd pairing RHD who mainly got OZone starts and wasn't even on the PK.

Liljegren has been given more responsibility this year, and he does PK. But I watched him more than a dozen times on the Marlies in his rookie year and he was on the 3rd pairing for none of the regular seasons games I was there for. He started out the season playing with Dermott. After Dermott was called up he was generally either playing with Marincin or Rosen. Yes, his ice time was generally decreased in the third period if the Marlies had a small lead (when LoVerde would get a ton of ice time), but even still he was on more than a 3rd pairing D would play in that situation and he was out a lot defending when the other team pulled their goalie.

Liljigren might have fewer points this year (from a slow start + a serious foot injury) but to proclaim he regressed because Sandin is the better player is absurd. To claim Liljigren regressed because of his point totals (after one season no less) is absurd. And your "judgment" of Liljigren is absurd.

While this wasn't addressed to me, I will answer it anyway. I thought Liljegren's production in his rookie was disappointing (so did Liljegren), but I was willing to attribute that to bad puck luck. We are now at 110 games total with only 36 points and only 20 at ES. So the bad puck luck defense doesn't work.

Also Liljegren did not start either season slowly. He had 4 points in his 5 games in his rookie season (13 in his next 39 games, 17 in his next 59 counting the playoffs) and started this year with 7 points in his first 12 games (8 in the following 31 games, 34 games counting the playoffs).

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Some people think they know more than the coach the manager and all the people making decisions.

These same people think every defenseman has to score 60 points or they are a bust. I laugh at these experts who watch a game and see a 19 year old kid make a mistake and come to the conclusion that this kid won’t make it to the big league.

These same posters should watch this years playoffs and watch elite million dollar defensemen make the same mistakes. Defence is the hardest position to play in hockey and even the best make mistakes.

We are lucky to have the potential in the minors that we have.are they one ,two three years away. Who knows. They will figure it out.in the meantime just enjoy our youth movement.

 

[stickty111]

Liljegren is better at hockey now then he was a year ago. His offence hasn’t taken off like we all hoped for, but he is a more complete player. He also still possesses elite vision and passing, and is an above average skater as far as prospects go.

He will be an nhl dman, i think next year we’ll have a much better idea as to just how good of one he can be. Aside from injuries slowing things down for him.. i am just fine with how he has developed thus far.

Sadly, people just can't admit when they wrong.

 

[Northernguy10]

A kid playing his first two years in the best minor pro league in the world at 18 and 19 years old against men, many of whom are bigger and stronger than him, has done very well for himself. I look at various aspects of being a defenceman from avoiding/beating the forecheck, the first pass out of the zone or to a team mate in the zone, the ability to box out opposing forwards in front of the net, the ability to defend against the rush as well as several other things as being very important. If he is able to move the puck at the NHL level down the road , he'll get his share of points with the offensive power the Leafs have. In a few years, with Rielly and Sandin probably providing a lot of the offence from the back end, hopefully Dermott and Liljegren might just be that middle pairing that provides good two way play and penalty killing abilities. Of course there are holes in his game right now. Every single NHL defenceman makes mistakes. It's easy to cherry pick the mistakes of any defenceman without taking into consideration his age, the level he is playing at and his progression in minimizing the mistakes and his ability to think the game on both sides of the puck. Whether Liljegren is ready next year or the year after or the year after that , I believe we'll have a solid middle pairing puck-moving, penalty-killing defenceman. However being a commenter on a hockey board I reserve the right to be wrong. Comparing him to Sandin serves no purpose whatsoever..Glad we have both.

 

[biotk]

Liljegren was the most excited I have been about a prospect in many years. This goes back to more than a year before the draft. He is also my wife's favourite player. I assume mainly because she met him a couple years ago, but also because of the style he plays. He is a very exciting player to watch. You always feel that something is about to happen (the problem is that it rarely does). I was so high on Liljegren I felt that he should have been given a several game shot on the Leafs in the fall of 2017 (based on my belief that he was improving very rapidly at the time, my hope that rapid improvement would continue with the right challenges and opportunities, and my belief that with the Leafs' real need for a RHD who can stretch pass and transition the puck out of their own zone he was good enough to at least trial - I thought perhaps with a partner like Hainsey who could show him the ropes and cover for his deficiencies as he improved). It has not been fun for me to say that I feel that Liljegren has mostly stagnated over the past year and half. I would love to still be posting "rah, rah" Liljegren posts and denouncing those who don't think Liljegren is as great as I thought he was.

 

[horner]

Leaf fans need a goat. The fan base has decided that they like Sandin more than Liljegren even though they are completely different players and play different sides of the ice and most fans haven’t ever seen them play a game together.

My theryt is we finally have two good ones

 

[horner]

Some people think they know more than the coach the manager and all the people making decisions.

These same people think every defenseman has to score 60 points or they are a bust. I laugh at these experts who watch a game and see a 19 year old kid make a mistake and come to the conclusion that this kid won’t make it to the big league.

These same posters should watch this years playoffs and watch elite million dollar defensemen make the same mistakes. Defence is the hardest position to play in hockey and even the best make mistakes.

We are lucky to have the potential in the minors that we have.are they one ,two three years away. Who knows. They will figure it out.in the meantime just enjoy our youth movement.

Agree totally

 

[Knies iT]

Aside from some of the bigger names, i'm most interested to see how Keefe handles Rasanen next season if he commits to the Marlies. He looked a lot leaner and quicker with the Marlies than I remember him in junior. If he can adapt to the speed at this level and continue to work on his lateral movement, he could become a huge asset down the line because his straight line speed has become a strong suit.

You look around the league and see cases of later round giants like Cernak, Carlo, Mayfield, etc. thriving in shut down roles despite putting up < .5PPG in junior (less than Rasanen). There seems to be a growing trend of teams deploying these specialists who were previously seen as too one dimensional for prime roles a few years ago.

 

[Antropovsky]

Hutch and Moore were sent back down... no Rosen, no Marincin?

 

[Blueboy]

Hutch and Moore were sent back down... no Rosen, no Marincin?

Rosen is already down with the Marlies. I don’t know if they’ll be sending Marincin down.

 

[stickty111]

Here are the playoff series for our prospects, and their stats in the series and entire playoffs.
Updated Saturday April 27th

Games today
Game 4: Karpat wins 4-2
Series tied 2-2

Liiga
Finals: Karpat(2) vs HPK(5)
Series tied 2-2
Jesper Lindgren
Series:
GP 4 Goals Assists 1 Points 1
Playoffs:
GP 15 Goals 1 Assists 3 Points 4
Regular season:
GP: 45 Goals: 2 Assists: 17 Points: 19

OHL
2nd round: Saginaw(1) vs Guelph(4)
Saginaw leads 3-2
Fedor Gordeev
Series:
GP 5 Goals Assists 1 Points 1
Playoffs:
GP 16 Goals 1 Assists 1 Points 2
Regular season:
GP: 63 Goals: 7 Assists: 25 Points: 32

WHL
3rd round: Prince Albert(1) vs Edmonton(1)
Prince Albert leads 3-2
Ian Scott
Series:
GP 5 SV% .933 GAA 1.91 SO 2
Playoffs:
GP 15 SV% .929 GAA 1.83 SO 3
Regular season:
GP: 49 SV%: .932 GAA: 1.83 SO: 8

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Rosen is already down with the Marlies. I don’t know if they’ll be sending Marincin down.

Marincin might play for Slovakia in the World Championships.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Aside from some of the bigger names, i'm most interested to see how Keefe handles Rasanen next season if he commits to the Marlies. He looked a lot leaner and quicker with the Marlies than I remember him in junior. If he can adapt to the speed at this level and continue to work on his lateral movement, he could become a huge asset down the line because his straight line speed has become a strong suit.

You look around the league and see cases of later round giants like Cernak, Carlo, Mayfield, etc. thriving in shut down roles despite putting up < .5PPG in junior (less than Rasanen). There seems to be a growing trend of teams deploying these specialists who were previously seen as too one dimensional for prime roles a few years ago.

Mayfield is probably a more realistic target. Carlo and Cernak are both much better skaters any players overall than Rasanen likely ever will be.

But if we keep Rasanen around for 2-3 years he could hopefully be that third pair right shot with some PK time as Mayfield does now.

 

[Duke16]

What are people's thoughts on Timashov potentially factoring into the Leafs' plans next season?

His production is finally at that point where he is close to being an NHLer.

49 PTS in 72 GP
3 A in 3 GP so far these Playoffs

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

What are people's thoughts on Timashov potentially factoring into the Leafs' plans next season?

His production is finally at that point where he is close to being an NHLer.

49 PTS in 72 GP
3 A in 3 GP so far these Playoffs

Has gotten better each year, Babcock liked him and Moore in training camp last year so if he continues to play well then he has a shot. Especially if Marleau somehow disappears.

Really took off after Moore got called up, as our wingers tend to do. Grundstrom being traded and Moore being called up in addition to all the injuries really set him up to be a go to guy for a bit.

He's more of a powerplay guy than the PK right now though so unless we plan on using him like Ennis I'd probably rather just have Marchment or Engvall or something on the 4th line.

 

[Magic Man]

What are people's thoughts on Timashov potentially factoring into the Leafs' plans next season?

His production is finally at that point where he is close to being an NHLer.

49 PTS in 72 GP
3 A in 3 GP so far these Playoffs

He will clear waivers at the end of camp. But, he's not a complete right off, he's still improving. If he can dominate next season in the AHL, I think he can push for ice time near the end of the season and they can reassess his worth to the organization.

I think Timashov and Carcone are in an interesting position. They're not good enough to be claimed on the waiver wire but with a dominant year in the AHL they still have some potential to carve out a role in the NHL, so the Leafs can hide them once they clear and see what they have in a top-6 role. They've developed slow so far but they have a lot of tools.

 

[Nithoniniel]

What are people's thoughts on Timashov potentially factoring into the Leafs' plans next season?

Wouldn't surprise me if Timashov is the Moore of next year.

 

[aingefan]

Tima and Carcone are looking close to ‘13th forward’ ready, and one of them might get more of a look with Hynan’s injury.
Marlies aren’t flush with forwards either so maybe they get 2 year NHL deals as waiver deterrents.

 

[Orfieus]

OMGG Wednesday can't come soon enough

 

[Duke16]

Aside from some of the bigger names, i'm most interested to see how Keefe handles Rasanen next season if he commits to the Marlies. He looked a lot leaner and quicker with the Marlies than I remember him in junior. If he can adapt to the speed at this level and continue to work on his lateral movement, he could become a huge asset down the line because his straight line speed has become a strong suit.

You look around the league and see cases of later round giants like Cernak, Carlo, Mayfield, etc. thriving in shut down roles despite putting up < .5PPG in junior (less than Rasanen). There seems to be a growing trend of teams deploying these specialists who were previously seen as too one dimensional for prime roles a few years ago.

Rasanen would have to be with the Leafs for Keefe to work with him

 

[mapleleaf979]

Liljegren has questionable hockey sense. Its the main reason why Sandin is better. Liljegren could be Connor Carrick or a little above. Liljegren looks to be a 5-6 at most and maybe even lower depending on his adjustment to less time and space in the NHL. Sandin clearly looks like a Top 4 d-man and very probable he can be a better player than Dermott. Sandin is outhinking his opponents, he is evasive and deceptive and can make plays. Liljegren doesnt beat u with his mind and thats why his progression has slowed down, imo.

Sandin is the #1 prospect and Bracco #2. But Bracco has has compete issues without the puck and needs to find an extra gear in his skating or back pressure and his time and space will be an issue.

 

[Magic Man]

Liljegren is still very young. Most players don't play at his age in the AHL. His point totals are respectable and he's seen a lot of minutes high up in the lineup. He's had the chance to work on his all around game and he's had some unfortunate injures. He needs a big year next year. It's the last year he is waiver exempt. He needs to really dominate before he comes up, it will help his confidence in his adjustment to the NHL. He's not ready now. But, if he dominates next year, I think he's a mainstay on the team by the trade deadline.

There is definately an argument to be made for Bracco over Liljegren at this point. I still wouldn't place Bracco over him. But, if Liljegren doesn't pull up his socks offensively next year and Bracco transitions to the NHL well I would have to agree.

 

[deletethis]

Liljegren has questionable hockey sense. Its the main reason why Sandin is better. Liljegren could be Connor Carrick or a little above. Liljegren looks to be a 5-6 at most and maybe even lower depending on his adjustment to less time and space in the NHL. Sandin clearly looks like a Top 4 d-man and very probable he can be a better player than Dermott. Sandin is outhinking his opponents, he is evasive and deceptive and can make plays. Liljegren doesnt beat u with his mind and thats why his progression has slowed down, imo.

Sandin is the #1 prospect and Bracco #2. But Bracco has has compete issues without the puck and needs to find an extra gear in his skating or back pressure and his time and space will be an issue.

Don't forget that Liljegren isn't even 20 yet and he's in the level below the NHL. Interesting comparison to Carrick. It's forgotten that Carrick was playing NHL defense at 19 on a bubble playoff team (Washington 2013-14). There's a lot of growth that can happen from that age but sometimes it doesn't happen. I hope he isn't like Carrick who hasn't gotten much better than he was at 19.

I like the evasive description of Sandin. I loved that trait in Kaberle who had an almost generational subtle sense of evading forecheckers.

Bracco doubtlessly is showing NHL scoring potential but I have trouble imagining him in that high tempo robust game that almost every Leaf forward plays. At the very least he seems like he could be a killer addition on the PP.

 

[nobody]

Liljegren has questionable hockey sense. Its the main reason why Sandin is better. Liljegren could be Connor Carrick or a little above. Liljegren looks to be a 5-6 at most and maybe even lower depending on his adjustment to less time and space in the NHL. Sandin clearly looks like a Top 4 d-man and very probable he can be a better player than Dermott. Sandin is outhinking his opponents, he is evasive and deceptive and can make plays. Liljegren doesnt beat u with his mind and thats why his progression has slowed down, imo.

Sandin is the #1 prospect and Bracco #2. But Bracco has has compete issues without the puck and needs to find an extra gear in his skating or back pressure and his time and space will be an issue.

Have you watched the Marlies play this year? Because if you had, you wouldn't be making these statements. Liljegren during his draft year and early last year was the guy with questionable hockey sense. This year this guy has been so reliable in his own end. He always makes the best plays defensively while trying to help his team breakout. Sandin in his own zone still gets a little flustered and has a tendency to skate out the puck or chip it out almost blindly sometimes when he's under pressure by the opponents. In the offensive zone though, Sandin is a good passer and he's been put in position to succeed and he's taken advantage of it.

Sandin 100% is ahead of Lilly at their respective ages, no question about it. But with that said, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like Lilly hasn't had a ton of injuries that have derailed his development time. Sandin's development curve is linear and trending up without many gaps. Lilly's development curve is also trending up but has a ton of gaps and is in no way linear. I think that's what throws off lots of people. They look at age and production and make a conclusion instead of actually watching the player and their areas of improvement.

If there is one area that Lilly is undeniably better than Sandin, it's his offensive vision and passing. Lilly in order to become an effective d-man in the NHL needs to work on building up his skating, and his shot by practicing getting it to the net more often because that's how he's going to pick up points. When this kid makes the show though, he's going to rip stretch passes for breakaways atelast once or twice per game. His passing ability from his own zone is insane.

Sandin has not been the better defenseman between the two this season (He has put up many more points, however). At best they have been even and contributing in their own ways. Timothy has been their top pairing guy since day 1. Sandin has played top pair to bottom pair this year. He's been sheltered quite a lot and with the exception of the past month, he hasn't really logged major minutes. Only reason he was logging big minutes was because Marlies had no offensive production from the back-end once Rosen was out/ called up.

Timothy has been an anchor for that defense the whole season. Give the kid the respect and credit he's due.

The biggest let down for the Marlies this season has been their goaltending. Up until the past few months, every goalie they had was atrocious and made the rest of the team look bad. If they had the level of goaltending sparks and co provided last season, Marlies record would be much more superior and their d-core would be one of the tops in the AHL.