News Article: 2017 Training Camp & Pre-Season Discussion

[Irishguy42]

Chytil's play has been a revelation that I'm going to change my stance on preferring him to go back to his Czech team. I think he's too good for that league already. In his case going to Hartford to play on what seems like a decent AHL level veteran roster and a new coaching might be a good idea. Chytil seems plenty mature for it.

Andersson needs another offseason to be able to be physically really for the speed and grind of the NHL. He can definitely think the game and his skills will continue to improve though it is not what is holding him back right now. He needs another level of explosiveness and another gear to be able to change direction. He should go and have a strong season in SHL, WJC and continue his developmental curve he showed getting to this point.

He's too good for Extraliga, even though he only put up 4G 4A in 38GP?

Wat. If he's too good for Extraliga, he should go back there and actually prove it.

 

[Beacon]

The echl is not a development league whatsoever. It’s a plugger league.

I am not sure what this means. What defines a league as "developmental" and what does it do that other leagues don't do? If anything, Sean Day would be influenced by (young) adults there who know what it takes to play in the AHL and what pro ethic is like. In the Juniors, he's spending his time with crazy teenagers without parental supervision. That seems to be a better way to develop yourself. The only reason teens play in Junior leagues is that they would be physically abused by lesser skilled ECHL players. Once that's no longer a concern, the ECHL is a better place than the Juniors for a kid.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Oh, good, Stasl gets another chance to prove he's toast.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He's too good for Extraliga, even though he only put up 4G 4A in 38GP?

Wat. If he's too good for Extraliga, he should go back there and actually prove it.

Yeah, the kid is 18. He can definitely improve by playing there for another year. It is after all, a pro league. Playing against grown ups, and it's not some bum hole friday night beer league.

 

[kovazub94]

He's too good for Extraliga, even though he only put up 4G 4A in 38GP?

Wat. If he's too good for Extraliga, he should go back there and actually prove it.

Yeah, the kid is 18. He can definitely improve by playing there for another year. It is after all, a pro league. Playing against grown ups, and it's not some bum hole friday night beer league.

Not saying it would be a bad choice but I'm no longer against Chytil playing in Hartford.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not saying it would be a bad choice but I'm no longer against Chytil playing in Hartford.

Well, Kovacs moved to the US to play in Hartford and from what I have seen, he may have been struggling being away from home at such a young age.

Chytil, unless he plays for the Rangers, should stay in Zlin for at least one more year. If the Rangers want, they can try to have him play with a different team in the EL. It wouldn't be the first time.

But the kid turned 18, just 2 weeks ago. There's no rush. And if he plays in Europe, he can also play for his national team in the tours. Which is great experience. Much better than playing in the AHL, in my opinion.

 

[Matz03]

I am not sure what this means. What defines a league as "developmental" and what does it do that other leagues don't do? If anything, Sean Day would be influenced by (young) adults there who know what it takes to play in the AHL and what pro ethic is like. In the Juniors, he's spending his time with crazy teenagers without parental supervision. That seems to be a better way to develop yourself. The only reason teens play in Junior leagues is that they would be physically abused by lesser skilled ECHL players. Once that's no longer a concern, the ECHL is a better place than the Juniors for a kid.

Which league has more players good enough to play in the AHL now, maybe even NHL, ECHL or OHL? He'd get top pairing minutes and plenty of pp time with all of the graduating players in Windsor if he can't stick in the AHL. I send him back if he's not ready, Windsor is a good program and he's just 19. Also if there Rangers want him in the minors, they'll find a spot for him in the top 6 in Hartford. They'll have no problem sitting Kotyk, Gilmour, or plug them in the ECHL.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Well, Kovacs moved to the US to play in Hartford and from what I have seen, he may have been struggling being away from home at such a young age.

Chytil, unless he plays for the Rangers, should stay in Zlin for at least one more year. If the Rangers want, they can try to have him play with a different team in the EL. It wouldn't be the first time.

But the kid turned 18, just 2 weeks ago. There's no rush. And if he plays in Europe, he can also play for his national team in the tours. Which is great experience. Much better than playing in the AHL, in my opinion.

Why would we want him in Zlin for anything more than a single year after this? That would be a really stupid player development situation. I'm fine with him going there for a year, but that's it.

 

[E-Train]

Why would we want him in Zlin for anything more than a single year after this? That would be a really stupid player development situation. I'm fine with him going there for a year, but that's it.

Me too. This season at most. Hartford/NYR next year.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Because I'd prioritize ice time for other players instead. Which player goes to the fourth line?

Whichever player earns the 3rd line should play on it. I wouldn't give spots based on preferences or prioritizing ice time for others. How is prioritizing spots for players that didn't earn them dramatically different than a coach giving spots based on favorites?

 

[Ola]

If he really has tired legs that would only be a short term issue so that would be a relief for me. I know some nights I feel like I'm skating in mud when I have dead legs. I'm glad some of you guys think he is looking really good. I hope I do as well soon.

As far as playing in 2017 that doesn't really matter to me. I'm not looking for the most ready player for the 2017 season from this draft. I'm hoping for a really good player for the next 5-10 years.

Yeah, I agree completely with the 5-10 year comments. Re Lias, he had some really good offensive moments in the WJSS, there are many highlights available if you want a sneak peak of what might be in store!

Anyway, back to the 5-10 year comment, I think our depth is looking really really good after the off-season we have had (depth chart schedule, not counting Nash since he is a UFA):
Kreider; Zib; Zucc
Miller; Hayes; Buch
Fast; Andersson; Vesey
Chytil; Nieves; Lettieri; Fontaine
McD;Shatty
Skjei;Smith
Graves; DeAngelo
Bereglazov; Pionk
Hank; Shest; and the rest

We know what we got in most of these players, they are already there. This is how I see them:
Chris Kreider -- Should be here for his entire career. Sure he has some ups and downs, he has his flaws, but tremendous attitude, good player. Think he will become a little more consistent, but OTOH I don't see a point in expecting 35-40 goals.
Mika Zibanejad -- We need a bit more top end firepower. Ziba has potential to provide more. I like his calm and poise in pressure situations, love a RH shot, but I also feel that he has a few more percent in him. Can e push himself that extra mile? Could become more of a 70 pts scorer than 55-60.
JT Miller -- Has produced really well the last years. Clutch player with an attitude. But when the competition has become stiffer, JT has tended to disappear a bit. Can he take that extra step?
Hayes -- I think the criticisms of him is a bit too harsh at times. Being 6'5, you get big advantages and big disadvantages. Many take the advantages without blinking but then want to hang him for the disadvantages. Think you gotta cut him a bit of slack for coming up short here and there, because he also provides you with many really good plays. Has shaped up out of the ice. I also think Hayes has a bit untapped potential, all of a sudden he could hit it off in a little bigger role.
Buch -- Has a great offensive understanding of the game. Game he become a steady 60-70 pts player? You know what, I see no reason for why Buch shouldn't be a better player this year than last year, I see no reason for why Buch shouldn't be a better player next season than this season. Buch was a perfectly OK player last season -- the result should be really good in a couple of years.
Fast -- Is a valuable top 9-12 player.
Andersson -- Will become a very good top 9 player. I see him at more or less worst becoming like a JT Miller type of contributor. We want -- and should want -- more. I think there also is a good chance that we will get a little more. Andersson could become more. If he can get his skating up to like the level of a Max Domi type, the sky is the limit.
Vesey -- I like Jimmy a lot. Smart and talent player, good attitude, hard worker. Great asset to have. How good will Jimmy be in a couple of years? Think he could become a very good top 9 player.
Chytil -- This kid has some sick potential. We shouldn't get a head of ourself, that wouldn't be fair to the kid. But -- and I am not known for hyping kids potential -- this kid could become a Kopitar type for us. Or not quite, but still very valuable.
McD -- Is a top 10-15 D. Great leader. Very valuable to have.
Shatty -- he will produce for the coming 5 years. Free asset. A bit expensive, OTOH, the key is to not be stuck on a too long commitment.
Skjei -- He isn't becoming Herman or Karlsson or Burns II, but overall not much limits this kid. If you look at like a Scott Neidermayer, he developed pretty steadily over a very long time, and didn't start off that high even if he was promising. Only got into Norris territory after 30. Skjei is doing everything right. I would t be shocked if he got into that top 30 territory at least.
ADA -- Will become a valuable D if we afford him patient and time to develop and settle in. A Matt Dumba type.
Pionk -- think his defense is underrated, and offense is really good. Sure he is on the smaller side, sure he is a rookie. But he is very smart.
Graves -- I really liked his improved foot speed. If -- if -- he just can get his overall game to a level where he can do average in most 5 on 5 areas, his shot, size, physicality and so forth will be very valuable for us.

And so forth. The SUM of the above is really good. It's assets that will yield a very good production for not 2-3 years, but 5-10 years in most cases. And there are a lot of assets quantity wise, almost a fulll roster way down in the future. And it wouldn't be a very expensive lineup. There would be a lot of room to try to add whatever might be lacking, if it isn't enough.

This is why I think we had a great off season and got so many great answers during the Camp. Chytil. Pionk. ADA. Graves. Andersson proved that he will become a player, still potential questionmark. And so forth.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Why would we want him in Zlin for anything more than a single year after this? That would be a really stupid player development situation. I'm fine with him going there for a year, but that's it.

Sorry, I meant at least this season, as in "at least send him back this season".

I don't want him to stay there for more than a year

 

[Beacon]

Which league has more players good enough to play in the AHL now, maybe even NHL, ECHL or OHL?

This doesn't prove that the ECHL does a worse job developing players than the OHL. There's a rule against teens moving from the Juniors to the pros unless it's the NHL, so there are many kids stuck in the Juniors.

The Juniors are kind of a hit or miss with their players with their top-shelf players ready for the NHL or at least the AHL, while the majority in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL is just awful. Most Junior players will NEVER be good enough to play in the ECHL on a regular basis, and are presently far below most ECHLers.

I was talking to an agent once and he mentioned how stunned most ECHLers are to find themselves there. All their lives, they were very good players, usually the best or at least the first line in midget leagues and then still top-6F/top-4D in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL. The average ECHL player is only a couple years removed from being convinced that he has a realistic shot at the NHL.

About 5% of Junior players make the NHL. Since the AHL has roughly the same number of players as the NHL, that's 10% of the Junior players making either than AHL or the NHL. Let's say another 2-3% go to Europe's top leagues (KHL, SHL, Liiga, Czech extraliga, Switzerland). That's about 12-13%. That's roughly 1 player out of 8 or about 1.5 forwards per team and fewer than 1 defenseman per team. Realistically, you have to be a first line Junior forward or first pair defenseman by your last Junior season to make a league that is superior to the ECHL. Junior second liners wind up mostly in the ECHL. Junior bottom-6ers become gym coaches at a local high school.

 

[Ori]

You bring up a good point about 2017 being an okay draft. I do not have any inside information but I suspect Gorton hoped to trade the #7 for a top 5 pick when he made the Stepan trade.

The strange thing for me is the 2017 predraft reports said LA has strong skating with quick acceleration but his first step looked to be one of his weaker points while I was watching last night.

Yes, I question the scouting the recent years here - we will see how accurate their report is on Lias A. and not the first time GM`s and others above in the org. question their scouting staff doing a proper job. And random quotes and G. Clarke barking at kids in Traverse city in perhaps a stressful work environment at New York Rangers org.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Whichever player earns the 3rd line should play on it. I wouldn't give spots based on preferences or prioritizing ice time for others. How is prioritizing spots for players that didn't earn them dramatically different than a coach giving spots based on favorites?

You didn't answer my question, but regardless, I just don't agree. At the very least, I'd start with Grabner on the fourth line, and stick with it for a significant amount off time, as long as there are no injuries. It can be reevaluated later.

 

[Kovalev27]

This doesn't prove that the ECHL does a worse job developing players than the OHL. There's a rule against teens moving from the Juniors to the pros unless it's the NHL, so there are many kids stuck in the Juniors.

The Juniors are kind of a hit or miss with their players with their top-shelf players ready for the NHL or at least the AHL, while the majority in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL is just awful. Most Junior players will NEVER be good enough to play in the ECHL on a regular basis, and are presently far below most ECHLers.

I was talking to an agent once and he mentioned how stunned most ECHLers are to find themselves there. All their lives, they were very good players, usually the best or at least the first line in midget leagues and then still top-6F/top-4D in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL. The average ECHL player is only a couple years removed from being convinced that he has a realistic shot at the NHL.

About 5% of Junior players make the NHL. Since the AHL has roughly the same number of players as the NHL, that's 10% of the Junior players making either than AHL or the NHL. Let's say another 2-3% go to Europe's top leagues (KHL, SHL, Liiga, Czech extraliga, Switzerland). That's about 12-13%. That's roughly 1 player out of 8 or about 1.5 forwards per team and fewer than 1 defenseman per team. Realistically, you have to be a first line Junior forward or first pair defenseman by your last Junior season to make a league that is superior to the ECHL. Junior second liners wind up mostly in the ECHL. Junior bottom-6ers become gym coaches at a local high school.

When do you see top prospects playing in the E?

You don’t it doesn’t happen it’s not a Development league otherwise nhl teams would send their prospects there too they don’t. Echl is made up of guys that can’t make the AHL but we’re good players coming up so there is still room for them at some kind of pro level. Coaches aren’t developing there. They aren’t giving mins to younger guys they just are trying to win games and hopefully get an AHL call up.

You love to argue beacon but if u don’t want to agree with me agree with decades of NHL management treatment of who they send to the echl. Prettt clear picture

 

[NickyFotiu]

You didn't answer my question, but regardless, I just don't agree. At the very least, I'd start with Grabner on the fourth line, and stick with it for a significant amount off time, as long as there are no injuries. It can be reevaluated later.

If your question is about who would go on the 4th line right now Fast would with 2 other players yet to be determined since camp is not over. I want our team to do well. You have said you want us to lose. Maybe that is why we see things differently. I believe if Grabs continues to produce then he should stay on the 3rd line. If he doesn't then he will be demoted. Does the player you want on the 3rd line have to produce to keep his spot?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I really wonder how long of a leash Staal is going to get.

 

[kovazub94]

I really wonder how long of a leash Staal is going to get.

No one knows. I'm cautiously hopeful that it will be a short one. Many think things will not change because AV.

 

[Beacon]

When do you see top prospects playing in the E?

You don’t it doesn’t happen it’s not a Development league otherwise nhl teams would send their prospects there too they don’t. Echl is made up of guys that can’t make the AHL but we’re good players coming up so there is still room for them at some kind of pro level. Coaches aren’t developing there. They aren’t giving mins to younger guys they just are trying to win games and hopefully get an AHL call up.

You love to argue beacon but if u don’t want to agree with me agree with decades of NHL management treatment of who they send to the echl. Prettt clear picture

More players get sent to the ECHL than as overagers to the Juniors, so when GMs have a choice, they have no issue with players going to the ECHL. Tgis is especially so for someone good enoigh to get called up to the AHL at times.

The ECHL is made up of former Junior/college second liners. The juniors have 10% better than that, but 80% worse (another 10% even). Plus, ECHL guys have more experience. Day should play in the Swamp and try to improve enough for an AHL callup midseason.

 

[Matz03]

This doesn't prove that the ECHL does a worse job developing players than the OHL. There's a rule against teens moving from the Juniors to the pros unless it's the NHL, so there are many kids stuck in the Juniors.

The Juniors are kind of a hit or miss with their players with their top-shelf players ready for the NHL or at least the AHL, while the majority in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL is just awful. Most Junior players will NEVER be good enough to play in the ECHL on a regular basis, and are presently far below most ECHLers.

I was talking to an agent once and he mentioned how stunned most ECHLers are to find themselves there. All their lives, they were very good players, usually the best or at least the first line in midget leagues and then still top-6F/top-4D in the OHL/WHL/QMJHL. The average ECHL player is only a couple years removed from being convinced that he has a realistic shot at the NHL.

About 5% of Junior players make the NHL. Since the AHL has roughly the same number of players as the NHL, that's 10% of the Junior players making either than AHL or the NHL. Let's say another 2-3% go to Europe's top leagues (KHL, SHL, Liiga, Czech extraliga, Switzerland). That's about 12-13%. That's roughly 1 player out of 8 or about 1.5 forwards per team and fewer than 1 defenseman per team. Realistically, you have to be a first line Junior forward or first pair defenseman by your last Junior season to make a league that is superior to the ECHL. Junior second liners wind up mostly in the ECHL. Junior bottom-6ers become gym coaches at a local high school.

If top junior players were actually going to the echl, then maybe it would be a good option, but because of the rule you mentioned and how young Day is, he belongs in juniors if he can't crack Hartford lineup. He needs to just play and get a ton of minutes, and do you reallly think the Rangers wouldn't pencil him in the top 6 in Hartford if that's where they'd want him to play, even if he might be above his head there? You just said junior players feel stunned being in the echl, you want to send Day to that league so he too can feel stunned? Into a league where everyone else is 3-4-5 years older? No team sends real prospects down there, everyone knows that, maybe goalies as exceptions, so I don't get this idea. They sent Gropp back to junior instead of echl, They'll do the same with Day.

 

[Kovalev27]

Rewatching the Rangers Isles game....

Chytil is the real deal. VERY strong he does not get knocked off the puck. That’s the hardest thing for a kid is having that man strength. I’m not sure how this kid dropped to 21st overall he’s a top 10 talent. Size skating puck skill. I’m just very very impressed.

I am very excited about Buchnevich. He too looks much much stronger. He’s going to have a big year.

Really liked DeAngelo again. Nasty kid. Plays with an edge to go with all that skill.

I liked nell’s Game and pavelec’s.

Bereglazov was worse than I thought.

Lettieri and even stromwell are growing on me a bit. Lettieri skates well enough shoots the puck. I like him.

Stromwell has a little hagelin in him. Interested to see how he responds this year in Hartford.

Skjei played a terrible game lol

Liked Hayes and Vesey again. They have serious chem

 

[Beacon]

LA not good for a #7, but Chytil surprisingly good. Pionk not ready, but a pleasant surprise. BG sucks. TDa too. At least so far. Nieves is ready.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I don't like seeing Kampfer in our line up. He should be an emergency call up only at this point and we should be using these games to let the true question marks play.

This. Even if Kampfer is better than Pionk and Graves right now (not impossible), there is nothing more to learn about his game. At his best, he is a serviceable 7/8. Let the kids show what they can do!

 

[mike14]

LA not good for a #7, but Chytil surprisingly good. Pionk not ready, but a pleasant surprise. BG sucks. TDa too. At least so far. Nieves is ready.

When you say "not good for #7" what do you mean? A quick search shows that the only #7 forward to make his team in the first season after the draft (for more than a few games) since 2000 is Jeff Skinner.
Kominsarek, Lupul, Opposes, Voracek, Wilson, Kadri and Scheifle all played a season elsewhere after the draft, and then when they made the show all basically has mid 30 point seasons.

Is Andersson really "not good" or do you have unrealistic expectations?