News Article: 2017 Training Camp & Pre-Season Discussion

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Farnham has been fine, he obviously is what he is, but if the numbers shake out you can call on him as a 13th forward and you know what he'll be. I sound like Yogi Berra.

Puempel's been a disappointment but I want to see him with NHL linemates.

 

[cwede]

I mean, maybe in another year he would've stayed around for a second look, but with the sudden depth we have he didn't deserve to stay. Out clause or not, DeAngelo and Pionk are both far better than him. Honestly Holden and Staal are better than him too.
Hopefully he stays in Hartford and gets used to the NA sized rinks and then we can get a better read on if he has a future here.

guys remember that players sent down are still eligible to play in NHL preseason games, those types of preseason game by game recalls happen all the time

i am surprised they demoted Bereglazov so soon, but he earned it, as mentioned, by (like Day) not outplaying the other rising young D guys

 

[Beacon]

Day was sent to their camp, but it's unknown if he'll stay there or go back to juniors.

Day may have to do ECHL time. Until yesterday, the Rangers had 46 guys in New York. The Rangers need 22 and Hartford needs 20. That's 42. Throw in a couple PTOs who may not get re-signed. Andersson and Chytil may go to Europe, but may stay. Either way, there will be enough players to populate the Rangers and the Pack from those that were in New York 10 hours ago.

Looking at just the defense: McDonagh, Shatty, Skjei, Smith, Staal, Holden, TDA in New York; Pionk, Graves, Bereglazov, Kampfer, Gilmour in Hartford who are definitely better than Day. He may be fighting for the 6D spot there with Crawley, Pedrie, Zborovskiy and Kotyk. That's 5 defensemen for one spot and at least based on how guys are getting cut, Crawley has the upper hand right now to win the Hartford 6D. It's very realistic that Sean Day is not even on the first pair in the Swamp to start the season.

As I argued for a full year since last year's TCT, Day is vastly overrated on this forum, easily our most overrated prospect. He's basically a third-tier prospect that people decided for some reason is good.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Day may have to do ECHL time. Until yesterday, the Rangers had 46 guys in New York. The Rangers need 22 and Hartford needs 20. That's 42. Throw in a couple PTOs who may not get re-signed. Andersson and Chytil may go to Europe, but may stay. Either way, there will be enough players to populate the Rangers and the Pack from those that were in New York 10 hours ago.

Looking at just the defense: McDonagh, Shatty, Skjei, Smith, Staal, Holden, TDA in New York; Pionk, Graves, Bereglazov, Kampfer, Gilmour in Hartford who are definitely better than Day. He may be fighting for the 6D spot there with Crawley, Pedrie, Zborovskiy and Kotyk. That's 5 defensemen for one spot and at least based on how guys are getting cut, Crawley has the upper hand right now to win the Hartford 6D. It's very realistic that Sean Day is not even on the first pair in the Swamp to start the season.

As I argued for a full year since last year's TCT, Day is vastly overrated on this forum, easily our most overrated prospect. He's basically a third-tier prospect that people decided for some reason is good.

I'm pretty sure Hartford will keep 7. Kotyk isn't competition. So even if you are right about the rest, its Crawley, Pedrie, Zborovskiy and Day for two spots.

I also am not sure Gilmour is a definite bet to start, but maybe he will be due to his AHL experience. There are also other variables like the possibility that Bereglazov will return to the KHL, maybe Holden is traded or released, which allows one more defensemen in Hartford to stay, and there's also a chance that Crawley goes back to London, Day could go back to Windsor also. I think it'll all be sorted out. I don't think Day's gonna be playing in the ECHL. If there's no spot in the AHL for him, he probably goes back to Windsor.

 

[Beacon]

I'm pretty sure Hartford will keep 7. Kotyk isn't competition. So even if you are right about the rest, its Crawley, Pedrie, Zborovskiy and Day for two spots.

I also am not sure Gilmour is a definite bet to start, but maybe he will be due to his AHL experience. There are also other variables like the possibility that Bereglazov will return to the KHL, maybe Holden is traded or released, which allows one more defensemen in Hartford to stay, and there's also a chance that Crawley goes back to London, Day could go back to Windsor also. I think it'll all be sorted out. I don't think Day's gonna be playing in the ECHL. If there's no spot in the AHL for him, he probably goes back to Windsor.

There's no chance Sean Day or any other prospect with zero pro experience will be used as a minor league 7D. That would totally ruin him. Definitely better to play 25 minutes in the Swamp than sit on the bench in Hartford.

To make the Pack, Day probably needs both BG to go to the KHL and Holden to be traded. Either is unlikely, and the odds of both happening are very slim because if BG leaves, the Rangers would be dumb to trade Holden.

Still, if somehow both BG and Holden are gone without any D coming back, there's still Pionk, Graves, Gilmour, Crawley, Pedrie, Zborovskiy and possibly Kotyk (I am assuming Kampfer is the emergency NHL-7D due to his experience if Holden is gone). That's 6 defensemen, maybe 7 with Kotyk. Gilmour, by the way, would definitely stay with this group to provide at least some experience or else it's all-rookies plus Graves on D, which is a recipe for disaster.

Is it better for Day to play in the Swamp or in the Juniors? I say the Swamp. The quality of hockey in the ECHL is higher than in the Juniors. He would also get called up to the AHL for significant stretches, seeing as either NHL or AHL injuries would result in the need to call up ECHL guys: for ex., Staal gets injured, Graves is called up to replace Staal, someone needs to come up from the Swamp to Hartford to replace Graves. Next year he hits the ground running in Hartford, instead of merely adjusting to pro style hockey.

 

[CommaSynapse]

SNY said 38 left in camp. If my list below is right, I have them accounted.

Anyone below the line for their position is a guy I figured is a pretty set cut. Separated the cuts into two tiers. Guys who have the opportunity or who are making it tough and guys likely getting cut.

I think I have everyone included.


Discuss away!



Hank
Pavelec
________
Halverson


Mcdonagh-shatty
Skjei-smith
Staal-Holden
Deangelo
___________
Pionk
________________
Graves - Kampfer
Crawley


Kreider - Zib -Nash
Vesey - Hayes - Zuccs
Grabner - Miller - Buchnevich
Puempel - Desharnais - ???
Fast
__________________________
Chytil - Andersson
Nieves - Fontaine
__________________________
Desjardins - Farnham
Carey - Schneider - Catenacci
Lettieri - Kosmachuk

 

[Ori]

It`ll be a difficult decision for sure. Personally I felt that our veteran low risk signing David Desharnais has struggled to showcase himself in this year training camp. I based that opinion related to a pre-season game, and he was credited for the goal with a double reflection by a shot from Kevin Shattenkirk, but it was more luck than anything else.

I want both Chytil & Lias A. on this year Ranger team in comparison to David who compete with those two high skilled talented players. Besides David has declined so hard the recent years as well based on that decision.

 

[Ola]

Wow, after reading up on the threads, I wonder if I -- ever -- have disagreed more on the general sentiment at this place. Two extremely negative GDTs in a row and in this thread people are competing with each on who managed to trash our kids the most this summer so that they now shall be entitled to hold the bragging rights since the kids sucked.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that this camp has been a disaster! I honestly think it's been tremendous, easily the best since 2005. Easily.

Lias Andersson and Fillip Chytil has -- both -- had sick camps. We know one thing after this camp, without single doubt, next year we can slot in Andersson and Chytil into the top 12. And expect them to contribute, not when they are 22-23, but from day one when they are 19 going on 20. If anyone asked me in early June what I would have thought about that -- I would have said hell yeah, couldn't ask for anything more. I don't know what kind of expectations others had.

Neal Pionk has come in and really pushed all competition. This kid hasn't been a super highly touted UFA signing, but he -- today -- look like he might be ready to play in the NHL as a RH PMD!! Sure he is small and he is of course a rookie, but he plays a very smart defensive game too.

Antony DeAngelo has mixed highs with little lows, but I do think that he has proven that if you afford him time and have patient with his development progress, this kid easily become like a Matt Dumba type of D.

Ryan Graves was very good at LD and a little less stellar at RD. But there are like 3-4 Ds in the entire league that has managed to get it to work on the wrong side, there is a reason for it. I don't at all think Graves should be trashed as much as he has been for his little less than stellar showing at RD. I think Graves today could step in and fill Staal's role. He will probably be cut, but IMO because of roster log-jam at LD and not because he really deserved it.

The trashing of Bereglazov has reached new heights even for this place. We signed a young Russian from the KHL who needed a little time to adjust to the NA game (if we listen to what Clarke said), whoho what a disaster that is only the case like 75% of the time.

Vinnie Lettiari has come in and challenged for a spot in the top 12 along with Gabe Fontaine, more or less out of nowhere. I am not sure I see the motor in Lettiari, or really an edge on Fontaine that would help him beat out stiffer competition down the line, but this is still good news. We have had Lars-Erik Sjöberg-award winners who was further away a NHL spot than these two! And many other kids haven't been horrible too. Boo N, Zboro, Day and so forth.

Our farm is supposed to be 29-30 overall or whatever. What was it? All I know is that I can easily see our farm of today produce at least 4 (Chytil, Lias, ADA and Pionk) and likely 5 (someone out of Graves, Shest, Bereglazov, Crawly and co) -- very -- competent NHLers. And I can guarantee you that with that production, we shouldnt be 29-30, probably around top 5-10. If you go back and look at rankings the 5-10 years ago, the results of most doesn't even come close to matching 4-5 very capable NHLers.

I think this has been a great camp!!!

 

[Levitate]

I still feel like I'd like to see a bit more offense from Andersson but he's also probably the kind of guy who would start steathily putting up points rather than being flashy

I think I see the potential in Bereglazov but yeah he's not adjusted to the NA game yet

 

[Ori]

It`s a great post and many good points @Ola. Yeah this year camp is really exciting for sure. It will be some tough decisions for the coaching staff who will stay and get NHL games when we start with the regular season. We are ranked #23 now, and went up +6 positions over the summer, but it`s hard to get an accurate ranking system on farms on young prospects.

 

[Kovalev27]

What about lias andersson’s Camp has been sick?

Other than being told he’s nhl ready by him and the ranger pr machine what exactly is it that looks nhl ready? He hasn’t made any plays going back to TCT. Hasn’t scored. Hasn’t produced chances doesn’t skate at an nhler level yet. I mean I don’t see how he’s nhl ready. I like the kid but he’s got a ways to go.

Chytil on the other hand while raw has shown way more nhl skill and talent. As well as size and skating ability. He’s the one that looks like the 7th overall pick to me. Total steal.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I know everyone loves a new guy especially if he was a high draft pick but I'm still waiting to see the LA that people are drooling over. I'm not saying he will not be a good player but I think the hype train has gotten ahead of the kids actual play.

The other kid has shown me more even though he is younger and was a lower draft pick. I'm not talking about goals or assists. I'm looking at this kids for their skill sets.

 

[eco's bones]

I believe Day and Crawley can go back to the OHL. For that matter Holden could be traded and Gilmour could play in the ECHL. Based off his year last year I certainly wouldn't put him ahead of Day. What if Bereglazov says '**** this!' and heads back to the KHL.

Anyway the point of the above is that we're not exactly in a fixed situation with our D. There are still a lot of variables to play out.

I will say as far as Crawley is concerned his play last night was a bit jerky but he's competitive and he skates well enough and he can carry the puck and pass with his head up.

 

[NickyFotiu]

We really need a top 3 scoring forward. I like that we added Shatty and AD on defense but I'm not seeing the elite firepower upfront. Nash said that he was playing for a new contract. I hope that means he plays lights out because we are lacking upfront. Buch and Vesey both have to step up in their 2nd years for us.

 

[Kovalev27]

I’d send Day back to juniors to plays 25 mins a game. That’s what he needs

Crawley is 20 give him some AHL time. Bereglazov prob goes home if he does indeed have that clause.

Pionk I like but he needs AHL time. Top mins paired with Ryan Graves.

Gilmour is awful prob worst dman in the AHL. Blow him out make some room for the others

 

[Ola]

Kovalev27- I am a bit confused, who have said that Lias was ready to contribute a lot in the NHL at 18? The last 19 years we haven't even had a 18 y/o forward once in the NHL. Lias could probably be he first in nearly two decades get by in a smaller role, but I think it's best for him to develop his offense at a lower level.

 

[Irishguy42]

Edit: delete

 

[Ola]

I know everyone loves a new guy especially if he was a high draft pick but I'm still waiting to see the LA that people are drooling over. I'm not saying he will not be a good player but I think the hype train has gotten ahead of the kids actual play.

The other kid has shown me more even though he is younger and was a lower draft pick. I'm not talking about goals or assists. I'm looking at this kids for their skill sets.

Yeah I don't disagree, don't think it's a lock that he will become strong scoring center. But we had a 7th overall pick in an OK draft, not FOA. This is a range where it's not at all hard to find players busting in completely.

And I would still say that our camp has been sick still because Chytil OTOH showing very strong signs of being able to become that strong scoring forward.

Lias camp has been strong, he has done well as an 18 y/o. But definitely not great, I would have liked to see more offense from him. He has that in him. I also think he looks a bit tired, has played a lot of games this summer already. Close to 100 games last season. The kid needs a little time to build up his physic, a lot of shorter shifts etc.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah I don't disagree, don't think it's a lock that he will become strong scoring center. But we had a 7th overall pick in an OK draft, not FOA. This is a range where it's not at all hard to find players busting in completely.

And I would still say that our camp has been sick still because Chytil OTOH showing very strong signs of being able to become that strong scoring forward.

Lias camp has been strong, he has done well as an 18 y/o. But definitely not great, I would have liked to see more offense from him. He has that in him. I also think he looks a bit tired, has played a lot of games this summer already. Close to 100 games last season. The kid needs a little time to build up his physic, a lot of shorter shifts etc.

You bring up a good point about 2017 being an okay draft. I do not have any inside information but I suspect Gorton hoped to trade the #7 for a top 5 pick when he made the Stepan trade.

The strange thing for me is the 2017 predraft reports said LA has strong skating with quick acceleration but his first step looked to be one of his weaker points while I was watching last night.

 

[Irishguy42]

Schneider and Catenacci were put on waivers.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Catenacci and Schneider on waivers, so that's two more confirmed cuts.

 

[Tawnos]

I think there are two questions that you have to answer in making a decision about Andersson. 1.) is there growth to be had for the player in Sweden? 2.) is Andersson the type of player that can grow from getting even 4th line experience in the NHL.

If the organization feels like the answer to 1 is yes, then they should send him back. If they feel like the answer to both questions is no, then they should send him to Hartford.

Let’s not forget that he’s an 18 year old in camp, but he will be 19 in 3 weeks. Plenty of 19 year olds do well in the AHL.

 

[NYR Viper]

You bring up a good point about 2017 being an okay draft. I do not have any inside information but I suspect Gorton hoped to trade the #7 for a top 5 pick when he made the Stepan trade.

The strange thing for me is the 2017 predraft reports said LA has strong skating with quick acceleration but his first step looked to be one of his weaker points while I was watching last night.

He's quick in small areas. Slippery. Agile. Strong on his skates. I wouldn't classify him as fast, yet. As he gets stronger and older that will come.

I think people set themselves up for disappointment in this kid. That's on them, not Andersson. He has had a very good camp as an 18 year old. Perspective.

 

[NickyFotiu]

He's quick in small areas. Slippery. Agile. Strong on his skates. I wouldn't classify him as fast, yet. As he gets stronger and older that will come.

I think people set themselves up for disappointment in this kid. That's on them, not Andersson. He has had a very good camp as an 18 year old. Perspective.

I'm hoping everyone is right. I don't expect him to be a Donnie Murdoch type rookie but I did hope to see a little more than I have seen so far.

 

[Ola]

You bring up a good point about 2017 being an okay draft. I do not have any inside information but I suspect Gorton hoped to trade the #7 for a top 5 pick when he made the Stepan trade.

The strange thing for me is the 2017 predraft reports said LA has strong skating with quick acceleration but his first step looked to be one of his weaker points while I was watching last night.

Yeah, and I commented several times on that this summer. He can become quicker in his skating. The positive news is that I think he has potential to become more explosive. I am not making excuses for him, but I've seen a ton of him already this summer. He just isn't in great shape, and it's not for slacking, he played around 95 games last season with the U20 WJCs, SHL, POs CHL and so forth. Exhibition games. Then combine before draft, rookie camp, WJSS, preseason with Frolunda, Traverse and now camp. It's a helluva schedule, Clarke commented on him being tired in Traverse. He so often takes real shot shifts, 20-25 sec. There is a reason for that. Return him to Sweden ASAP. Let him build up, have a great summer and I think he will be a good top 9 player next season already as a 19 y/o.

I think the pick is looking really good, I don't think I see something others don't, just must have some perspective. Of 30 first round picks, will 4 play in the NHL next season? 3?