WC: 2017 Team Finland

[mattihp]

This was actually the case with the u20 team this year: players actually started to rebel against the scouting staff. They criticized the head coach openly in interviews and contacted straight to the union for demanding of firing him. I'm trying not to compare our junior national team to the men's team, but there are lots of similarities in coaching style with Marjamäki and Rautakorpi. Just not suited for short projects when there are no advantages to physical training and detailed tactics (lol).

They need to clear the air with Marjamäki. He is not a stupid guy, and most likely has a plan B which looks more like ice hockey.

But it looks like he needs to be informed that the time to set plan B in the works has already been passed and that every day being stuck in these tactics hurts the team. His "master piece" or whatever he would like to call it could perhaps be something for a club team where he can better instruct the players at his disposal under a longer term.

 

[Lempo]

Ask, and ye shall get.. 07.05.2017

Happy 22nd anniversary of the '95 Final, everyone!

 

[rduck1]

By the way, how many additional players can be registered at this point? If it's two or more, I'd like Joonas Järvinen to be activated ASAP. He would add some muscle and attitude to the backline, which seemed to be kind of lacking tonight.

 

[illone84]

By the way, how many additional players can be registered at this point? If it's two or more, I'd like Joonas Järvinen to be activated ASAP. He would add some muscle and attitude to the backline, which seemed to be kind of lacking tonight.

Roster can be 25 players. 1 more goalie, and 2 more skaters.

 

[Jussi]

Fire him and use a player coach. Kukkonen gets that role. If a pro coach is then found, fine.

The same Kukkonen that left Paris because of injury?

 

[Mestaruus]

If Lehterä isn't coming. Stamp Sallinen's tournament pass and let him play. Hoping for something like this for the Czech game:

Savinainen-Filppula-Rantanen
Puljujärvi-Kemppainen-Aho
Pyörälä-M.Aaltonen-Pihlström
Hännikäinen-Sallinen-Osala

extras: Lajunen, JMA

Like Urheilulehti put it, Filppula and Aho eat too much of each other's game. They are too similar and both need the puck a lot and they are already in different PP units so they should be separated. Also M.Aaltonen didn't work in that line so separate them all.

Also put Kemppainen who has been one of our best centers so far in between Pulju & Aho. All Kärppä players so they may click faster.

 

[Gsus]

This team lacks goal scoring by looking at the roster. And the games.

I'm all for reuniting Aho and Pulju. There's nothing to lose at this point. Pulju looked like he was the only one trying when he got the chance.

 

[illone84]

If Lehterä isn't coming. Stamp Sallinen's tournament pass and let him play. Hoping for something like this for the Czech game:

Savinainen-Filppula-Rantanen
Puljujärvi-Kemppainen-Aho
Pyörälä-M.Aaltonen-Pihlström
Hännikäinen-Sallinen-Osala

extras: Lajunen, JMA

Like Urheilulehti put it, Filppula and Aho eat too much of each other's game. They are too similar and both need the puck a lot and they are already in different PP units so they should be separated. Also M.Aaltonen didn't work in that line so separate them all.

Also put Kemppainen who has been one of our best centers so far in between Pulju & Aho. All Kärppä players so they may click faster.

Looks spot on to me.

 

[FiLe]

If Lehterä isn't coming. Stamp Sallinen's tournament pass and let him play. Hoping for something like this for the Czech game:

Savinainen-Filppula-Rantanen
Puljujärvi-Kemppainen-Aho
Pyörälä-M.Aaltonen-Pihlström
Hännikäinen-Sallinen-Osala

extras: Lajunen, JMA

This obviously isn't happening, not for the Czech game at least, because St. Louis was eliminated. They won't add Sallinen before they hear Lehterä's answer.

Of course, if he says no, then I'm all for adding him and using all of our proper centers in centre slots instead of shoehorning Pillu in there somewhere.


Given how the next game comes quickly, is today already, it's still somewhat unlikely Marjamäki (like any coach) completely blows up the lineup. I'd be tentatively happy with what they had at the end of the last game, something I already alluded to:

Aho - Filppula - Rantanen
Savinainen - M.Aaltonen - Pihlström
Pyörälä - Kemppainen - Puljujärvi
Hännikäinen - Lajunen - Osala


Then there could be option B, retrying Pulju with Flip & Aho, despite not-so-good EHT performance (which may have arguably been because of jet lag, so it could warrant a rehash) :

Aho - Filppula - Puljujärvi
Pihlström - M.Aaltonen - Rantanen
Savinainen - Kemppainen - Pyörälä
Hännikäinen - Lajunen - Osala

---

Then a look forward. If Lehterä joins, we could use that last one as basis:

Aho - Filppula - Puljujärvi
M.Aaltonen - Lehterä - Rantanen
Savinainen - Kemppainen - Pyörälä
Pihlström - Lajunen - Osala

Other option would be using Flip and Lehterä the other way around. Claywoman and Miro could also switch places.

4th line could alternatively be Hännikäinen - Pihlström - Osala. While Pillu as a scoring unit playmaker is likely something they should never have considered, it probably wouldn't matter in a pure energy line.


If Lehterä is a no-show, then Mestaruus' lineup could be something they should perhaps consider.


Then there're of course the PP units, those are a matter of their own. I'll leave the minute details to Marjamäki for now, but he should obviously feature Pulju in there somehow. And perhaps give Honka more to do. I must say, that last night's 5-on-3 with five forwards, all lefties, was perhaps Late's most indefensible bungle so far. (I know now one or two or three of you wannabe comedians out there may have the urge to post something in the line of "more like his entire tenure", but save it. It's not contributive.)

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

(I know now one or two or three of you wannabe comedians out there may have the urge to post something in the line of "more like his entire tenure", but save it. It's not contributive.)

OK, I'll bite.
Why are you FiLe so supportive? Did you get a job at Liitto? Late' assistant coach? Sauna buddy?

Late is getting rightfully roasted, worst humiliation ever, first ever defeat to France, almost a year into the job and his team can't score, game plan is missing, none of the players seem happy or in a flow. NHL players rebelling.. we are small country, we can afford paying two coaches (one fired), we cant afford having star players rebel.

Firing mid-tournament isn't going to help, but certainly the case for continuing after World Champs is very very thin. There isn't a single argument for continuing bar the "he's talented, he will get it" punchline we've been fed for a few years now.
(I still wonder how that story arose, Blues under Matikainen played more similar to Pelicans these days, Blues fired Late, Kärpät was a champion team already and just needed a "don't **** up" coach)

The argument of his system being geared for a full season and doesn't work when he has different players for every tourney also falls short, now half his squad has been with him over a month, major portion played under him in Kärpät, so they should be following plan, that's not happening.
We didn't just lose to France, we were outplayed. That should never ever happen.

 

[FiLe]

OK, I'll bite.
Why are you FiLe so supportive?

[MOD]

My entire stance, this whole time, has been: I want to see what the result of this ongoing tournament is (the entire result, not the results of single games), then I'll form my opinion about Marjamäki. If the results here are bad, then I'm all for changing the coach.

Because that's what, IMO, normal, sensible people do. Instead of those who get all hot under the collar and resort to knee-jerk reactions based on the last game.

 

[QnebO]

The same Kukkonen that left Paris because of injury?

Yes. Hes fine enough to come back. If he plays or not is another thing.

Not like it would be likely to happen. I'd take it though.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

Wrong. Knee-jerk is those who wanted him sacked after Canada Cup. This point now is a culmination, the mountain of evidence possessed by the prosecution is now too much to ignore.

Name one thing he has done well.

 

[FiLe]

Wrong. Knee-jerk is those who wanted him sacked after Canada Cup. This point now is a culmination, the mountain of evidence possessed by the prosecution is now too much to ignore.

Wrong. This point is the lowest of the low, yes. But it's very much knee-jerk to kick people when they've only just reached the lowest of the low. Sensible people don't do that.

The kicking should only commence if a person shows inability to head into the only available direction.

 

[Hidden]

While I do believe that Marjamäki is overrated coach, I don't think he is god awful either. It's just that he's a lot like Rautakorpi in sense.
Good coach when he gets months or years to drill his system in to his core players, but god awful when there is no real time nor chance to force that system in to the players. Though Marjamäki isn't as "bad" as Rautakorpi is when it comes to precise following of playbook and allows players bit more freedoms.
Those things makes them good coaches for regular teams, which get to play long seasons where they get solid routine towards end of the season and coast in to finals without breaking much of a sweat.
That same feature makes them bad choice for national teams, where they don't get to train the guys in to their liking/system for months and roster even changes a lot between the smaller tournaments/practices.

This is also why I think there was quite bit of players chosen which Marjamäki was more or less familiar with, like JMA, Kukkonen, Kemppainen and so on. Since he figured them to know what he wants, thus hopefully make it more smoother to others to pick it up.

Personally I wont yet give up on Finland completely in this tournament, because I think they're prone to get better further it goes, only question for me is that is it long enough tournament for it.

 

[QnebO]

French game did show solid puck posession, scoring chances ect. Normally, I wouldn't be like i'd just sell all my land (refering to saying maansa myynyt).

But this was a game against France. While you could hope that it was just bad luck+offnight combined, and we'll rebound in next one, it's really worrysome to lose 5-1 for france, even if you get unlucky in burrying your chances and even if the key players can clearly improve.

 

[FiLe]

But this was a game against France. While you could hope that it was just bad luck+offnight combined, and we'll rebound in next one, it's really worrysome to lose 5-1 for france, even if you get unlucky in burrying your chances and even if the key players can clearly improve.

It's really not the first time this has happened. It's not commonplace by any means, but sometimes it just happens.

It'll be all good if they can bounce back from this. And if they can't, well... then we can start looking up realtors.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I'd blow every f line,my lines would go something like this.
(again not that the line changes actually change anything)

Rantanen-Aho-Puljujärvi
Savinainen-Filppula-Osala
MiAaltonen-Lajunen-Pyörälä
Hännikäinen-Kemppainen-Pihlström

 

[QnebO]

At least the loss against france got me fired up for this tournament. I wasn't really feeling it this year before that. It was kinda meh feeling about the thing.

Pulju - Aho - JMA
Savinainen-Filppula-Rantanen
Osala-Pihlström-Pyörälä
Hännikäinen-Kemppainen-Mi Aaltonen

Lajunen cut. He wasn't good enough this tournament so far. Obivously, this aint gonna happen for some reason, but my opinions.

JMA actually wasn't bad yesterday. He was fine, even goodish, if you can in that game.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

That same feature makes them bad choice for national teams, where they don't get to train the guys in to their liking/system for months and roster even changes a lot between the smaller tournaments/practices.

This is also why I think there was quite bit of players chosen which Marjamäki was more or less familiar with, like JMA, Kukkonen, Kemppainen and so on. Since he figured them to know what he wants, thus hopefully make it more smoother to others to pick it up.

If this was true then our best lines/players should be the Kärppä guys, but none of them stand out.

Wrong. This point is the lowest of the low, yes. But it's very much knee-jerk to kick people when they've only just reached the lowest of the low. Sensible people don't do that.

The kicking should only commence if a person shows inability to head into the only available direction.

I don't buy this politically correct BS. This is 2017, if thing's arent working we are free to criticise, we won 2 golds and 1 silver last year, we have a right to expect a 7-1 thumping of France. Therefore kicking and cursing to the lowest depths of hell is acceptable.
It is a life choice he made many years ago, when he wanted to be a coach instead of being a generic office worker/bus driver/gardener whatever.


Now the strenght of Marjamäki should be the playbook, but thats in pieces and has been all year. Yes, EHT is meaningless, but that's 4 tournaments and 12 games of practice to get a random combination of players to follow a playbook in a short tournament. Add the world cup and it's 5 tournaments with practice games totalling 18, and now 2 so 20 games.

Dude, plan B should have come up ages ago.

The gap between the players is inconsistent, no two attacks seem to start similarly so there is little to no discernable pattern repeating itself. Player positions are a mess in defence and in offence - it leaves one to think that either he's completely clueless (unlikely) or has taken too long to realise it and now either needs help (Summanen or Matikainen as assistant coach to wip the side into order) or should be let go.

Actually to think of it, should we lose tonight I'd fire him on the spot. We have to beat one of the big nations if we hope for a top-4 finish, otherwise we need other results to go our way.
And if we lose, we're in so far already that we might as well dump the loser and do what we can - we can't change the team on the ice, we can change the coach.

 

[FiLe]

I don't buy this politically correct BS. This is 2017, if thing's arent working we are free to criticise, we won 2 golds and 1 silver last year, we have a right to expect a 7-1 thumping of France. Therefore kicking and cursing to the lowest depths of hell is acceptable.

Yeah yeah, I get it. You're mad, you wanna rage. So rage.

Feel better? Did it change anything?

Thought so.


And we have to beat neither of the Czech Rep or Canada (the other two big countries in the group) to finish in top-4. All we have to do is beat everyone else who's left (those being Switzerland, Norway and Slovenia), loss to France or no.

And it's been perfectly clear for the longest while now, that the final standing in this WHC will determine whether Marjamäki has this job the coming season or not. It was like that before the tournament, and one upset loss to France doesn't change it. To say that a bad World Cup or bad EHT are reasons he should've been sacked already is nothing but revisionist history mired in hindsight.

 

[rduck1]

Okay, so now we have both Juhani Tamminen and Raimo Summanen suggested here as candidates for coaching jobs with the national team... In 2017. Like, we're talking about a guy who hasn't coached in a first-tier competition in since 2004 and whose recent accomplishments consist almost entirely of wearing funny suits, and another one who just recently got in hot water for literally calling his opponent a pedophile. That's the kind of leadership and class we want for the national team now? I can't even...

 

[Mestaruus]

Looks spot on to me.

Ty. Didn't seem to happen though. I think Sallinen didn't get stamped for today, like File said that they are waiting for Lehterä's answer probably. Also Pulju stays with Pyörälä and Kemppainen and that's good. As long as Kemppainen-Pulju duo remains since it looked very good in that short time that we saw them together.

Given how the next game comes quickly, is today already, it's still somewhat unlikely Marjamäki (like any coach) completely blows up the lineup. I'd be tentatively happy with what they had at the end of the last game, something I already alluded to

Yeah I thought about that also that the game is coming very fast but I still would have done major changes like this and take the Czech game as a practice and let them grow inside that game in to the lines. Based on what I read from media, it looks like Marjamäki isn't doing that many changes for this game as I hoped. Pulju leaked that he stays with Pyörälä and Kemppainen and Filppula said that first line will have changes.

 

[kunekune]

The NHL stars Filppula, Rantanen (and Aho) have been the worst forwards so far.

If we want to get to the QF we need a much much better game from the those guys.

 

[mattihp]

The NHL stars Filppula, Rantanen (and Aho) have been the worst forwards so far.

If we want to get to the QF we need a much much better game from the those guys.

Let them have less specific duties and more of a general idea of their role and they can all three be awesome in this tournament.