2017 Offseason Thread 3.0

[KINGS17]

More terrible than letting the current core rot? By the time any draft picks are ready to play Kopitar will be a second line center, Carter will be gone and Doughty will be in Toronto (or wherever). Let's face it, there is no good way out of this without some insane luck.

I dunno about rot, but the sooner Blake realizes the remaining core isn't the foundation of a contending team, the better.

Given his age and current level of play, I still think Blake should be shopping Carter to see what's out there. Nashville sure could use him.

 

[LeafChief]

Hi All,

Sorry if this topic has already been beaten to death but would there be interest from Kings fans in JVR at 50% retained?

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Hi All,

Sorry if this topic has already been beaten to death but would there be interest from Kings fans in JVR at 50% retained?

Not really. He would be nice to have but we probably won't be able to resign him next year, so it would be a waste of a trade. Kind of like the Lucic trade

 

[LeafChief]

Not really. He would be nice to have but we probably won't be able to resign him next year, so it would be a waste of a trade. Kind of like the Lucic trade

Fair enough. Makes sense.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

With the cap staying the same now is the time to trade Brown to Vegas. The only reason you keep Brown is if you believe 100% his decline in play was due to his dislike of Sutter. If you're Blake though you look to put your stamp on the team and if the same roster returns, which many fans shockingly think should happen, nothing will change. This was an incredibly boring team to watch night in and night out, maybe with the time between the last game and now many of those fans have forgotten. You're an injury away from seeing Brown, Lewis or Shore toil away in the top 6 with their inability to put up better numbers with more ice time. The Kings absolutely cannot return the same roster-the talent and desire to create offense just isn't there.

The only way you can move Brown/Gaborik is trading the 11th OA with him (plus maybe another pick or prospect) to Vegas.

The only way I'd be ok with moving the 11th OA is knowing there is a deal for a young Winger/Center for it or in another move (Drouin/Galchenyuk).

Would you be ok with Muzzin/Martinez + Kempe + Brown/Gaborik + 11th OA + pick/prospect for a Drouin/Galchenyuk?

Because that's what it would come down too.

It would be easier to trade a Muzzin/Martinez/Carter than what it would be to get rid of a Brown/Gaborik.

 

[kingsboy11]

Hi All,

Sorry if this topic has already been beaten to death but would there be interest from Kings fans in JVR at 50% retained?

Not really interested in JVR.

 

[Reaper45]

The only way you can move Brown/Gaborik is trading the 11th OA with him (plus maybe another pick or prospect) to Vegas.

The only way I'd be ok with moving the 11th OA is knowing there is a deal for a young Winger/Center for it or in another move (Drouin/Galchenyuk).

Would you be ok with Muzzin/Martinez + Kempe + Brown/Gaborik + 11th OA + pick/prospect for a Drouin/Galchenyuk?

Because that's what it would come down too.

It would be easier to trade a Muzzin/Martinez/Carter than what it would be to get rid of a Brown/Gaborik.

Absolutely. That's why some of us advocated moving Carter. It wasn't just his age and the attractive salary.

 

[kovacro]

Hi All,

Sorry if this topic has already been beaten to death but would there be interest from Kings fans in JVR at 50% retained?

No to JVR. I would however have interest in Connor Brown, good wheels, can put the puck in the net and has a pretty strong hockey IQ. Also like a couple guys on the Marlies such as Bibeau/Sparks and Leipsic.

Depending on the Kings moving either Muzzin or AMart and potential interest on the Leafs end, I would try to framework a deal around the Leafs names I mentioned for either defenseman.

I'm big on Nylander. I would deal Muzzin for him. Kid has a bright future, had a coming out party this season. Don't know the interest level the Leafs would have to deal him at this point in time.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

No to JVR. I would however have interest in Connor Brown, good wheels, can put the puck in the net and has a pretty strong hockey IQ. Also like a couple guys on the Marlies such as Bibeau/Sparks and Leipsic.

Depending on the Kings moving either Muzzin or AMart and potential interest on the Leafs end, I would try to framework a deal around the Leafs names I mentioned for either defenseman.

I'm big on Nylander. I would deal Muzzin for him. Kid has a bright future, had a coming out party this season. Don't know the interest level the Leafs would have to deal him at this point in time.

I can answer for the leaf fans before they come to kill us all...the "big 3" of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are untouchable. A lot of leaf fans wouldn't trade Nylander for Doughty.

And if LA is looking to move Muzzin...I'd hope someone better than Connor Brown is coming back. Maybe Brown could be in a Martinez package but not for Muzzin unless it has one of those "big 3". *cough* Nylander *cough*

 

[deaderhead28]

The only way you can move Brown/Gaborik is trading the 11th OA with him (plus maybe another pick or prospect) to Vegas.

The only way I'd be ok with moving the 11th OA is knowing there is a deal for a young Winger/Center for it or in another move (Drouin/Galchenyuk).

Would you be ok with Muzzin/Martinez + Kempe + Brown/Gaborik + 11th OA + pick/prospect for a Drouin/Galchenyuk?

Because that's what it would come down too.

It would be easier to trade a Muzzin/Martinez/Carter than what it would be to get rid of a Brown/Gaborik.

Where are you going to get the cap space?

 

[deaderhead28]

The only way you can move Brown/Gaborik is trading the 11th OA with him (plus maybe another pick or prospect) to Vegas.

The only way I'd be ok with moving the 11th OA is knowing there is a deal for a young Winger/Center for it or in another move (Drouin/Galchenyuk).

Would you be ok with Muzzin/Martinez + Kempe + Brown/Gaborik + 11th OA + pick/prospect for a Drouin/Galchenyuk?

Because that's what it would come down too.

It would be easier to trade a Muzzin/Martinez/Carter than what it would be to get rid of a Brown/Gaborik.

These are different moves and yes I would be ok.Getting rid of Browns and Muzzin etc cap hit opens up space to go out and get a RW,Third Line Center and a top 4 D-man.Doughty will be looking for a new contract in about two years as well.Cap is rumored to be flat this season.People were upset about Lombardi's complacently, now many are unwilling to do what this franchise needs to do to be a contender for the cup in the cores prime.This team has at lease three holes in its line up,got to have space to fix these holes..

 

[Reclamation Project]

I can answer for the leaf fans before they come to kill us all...the "big 3" of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are untouchable. A lot of leaf fans wouldn't trade Nylander for Doughty.

And if LA is looking to move Muzzin...I'd hope someone better than Connor Brown is coming back. Maybe Brown could be in a Martinez package but not for Muzzin unless it has one of those "big 3". *cough* Nylander *cough*

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Where are you going to get the cap space?

Well you would need to trade out one of Muzzin/Martinez/Carter to get one of those guys so that'swhere the cap space comes from.

These are different moves and yes I would be ok.Getting rid of Browns and Muzzin etc cap hit opens up space to go out and get a RW,Third Line Center and a top 4 D-man.Doughty will be looking for a new contract in about two years as well.Cap is rumored to be flat this season.People were upset about Lombardi's complacently, now many are unwilling to do what this franchise needs to do to be a contender for the cup in the cores prime.This team has at lease three holes in its line up,got to have space to fix these holes..

I'm all for going young and trading some older guys. But it would have to be the right moves. I'm ok with giving up the 11th OA with Brown/Gaborik but would need to have a Drouin type deal made beforehand. But how far do you go?

Muzzin + Kempe + Shore for Drouin + Namestnikov?

Martinez + Clifford/Lewis for Kane + Girgensons?

Brown/Gaborik + 11th OA + what for future considerations?

Sign who? Alzner? Oshie? For how much? Because they won't come cheap being the best UFAs at their respective spots.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Yes that was said by a lot of Toronto fans in the Value of Doughty to Toronto thread

 

[kilowatt]

Well you would need to trade out one of Muzzin/Martinez/Carter to get one of those guys so that'swhere the cap space comes from.



I'm all for going young and trading some older guys. But it would have to be the right moves. I'm ok with giving up the 11th OA with Brown/Gaborik but would need to have a Drouin type deal made beforehand. But how far do you go?

Muzzin + Kempe + Shore for Drouin + Namestnikov?

Martinez + Clifford/Lewis for Kane + Girgensons?

Brown/Gaborik + 11th OA + what for future considerations?

Sign who? Alzner? Oshie? For how much? Because they won't come cheap being the best UFAs at their respective spots.

Let's assume we trade Muzzin, Kempe, and Shore for Drouin and Namestnikov, then Gaborik + 11th OA to Vegas for nothing. Does that make us a better team?

Pearson - Carter - Drouin
Brown - Kopitar - Toffoli
Andreoff - Namestnikov - Dowd
Clifford - Brodzinski/Whatever - Nolan

Forbort - Doughty
Martinez - LaDue
Gravel - McNabb
Trotman

Quick
Shooter Tutor

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Let's assume we trade Muzzin, Kempe, and Shore for Drouin and Namestnikov, then Gaborik + 11th OA to Vegas for nothing. Does that make us a better team?

Pearson - Carter - Drouin
Brown - Kopitar - Toffoli
Andreoff - Namestnikov - Dowd
Clifford - Brodzinski/Whatever - Nolan

Forbort - Doughty
Martinez - LaDue
Gravel - McNabb
Trotman

Quick
Shooter Tutor

That's a better team, but why is Trotman near the roster? Where's Fantenberg?

Fantenberg > McNabb, Trotman and possibly Gravel, LaDue and Forbort.
He's the same age as LaDue, Gravel and Forbort and has played on the Swedish National Worlds 3 times and was an all-star in Russia this past season. 23 pts for a D in Russia in 44 games is equivalent to 40+ pts in the NHL. 5th on his team in scoring. Most King scouts hve seen him play and Yanetti said he's great hockey sense and moves the puck very fast. I just don't think Gravel, LaDue and Forbort could have accopmplished all that in the last 4 years in Sweden and Russia. 10 pts in the SHL playoffs in the 2016 playoffs in 16 games for Frolunda. 3rd in defenseman scoring in the SHL playoffs. Again, I am not saying he's better than Forbort, LaDue and Gravel...I wrote possibly. But I bet those 3 would have not accomplihed what Fantenberg has the last 5 years in the SHL and KHL. It's pretty impressive.


http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=13743

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120272

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0072852017.html

.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Let's assume we trade Muzzin, Kempe, and Shore for Drouin and Namestnikov, then Gaborik + 11th OA to Vegas for nothing. Does that make us a better team?

Pearson - Carter - Drouin
Brown - Kopitar - Toffoli
Andreoff - Namestnikov - Dowd
Clifford - Brodzinski/Whatever - Nolan

Forbort - Doughty
Martinez - LaDue
Gravel - McNabb
Trotman

Quick
Shooter Tutor

We definitely will be a better team than we were last year if no major injuries happen. Even without changing the team (just with Quick and Toffoli coming back, and the young kids getting more NHL time). Definitely adding some offensive talent is going to help. I'd definitely want them to go all out this summer. Trade Martinez first off, look into a Drouin/Galchenyuk type guy, than Brown/Gaborik move, free agent.

Honestly,

Gaborik/Brown + 11th OA to Vegas
Martinez to Buffalo for Girgensons +
Muzzin + Kempe + Shore to Tampa for Drouin + Namestnikov
McNabb + Clifford/Lewis to Boston for K. Miller + 2nd (or M.Subban + 3rd)
Sign Alzner 4 years @ 4.25m

Drouin--Kopitar--Carter
Pearson--Namestnikov--Toffoli
Brown/Gaborik--Girgensons--Brodz
Mersch--Dowd--Lewis/Clifford
Nolan

Forbort--Doughty
Alzner--LaDue
Gravel--K.Miller
Fantenberg

Quick
Campbell/Subban

But that's my NHL 17 dreaming

 

[kilowatt]

We definitely will be a better team than we were last year if no major injuries happen. Even without changing the team (just with Quick and Toffoli coming back, and the young kids getting more NHL time). Definitely adding some offensive talent is going to help. I'd definitely want them to go all out this summer. Trade Martinez first off, look into a Drouin/Galchenyuk type guy, than Brown/Gaborik move, free agent.

Honestly,

Gaborik/Brown + 11th OA to Vegas
Martinez to Buffalo for Girgensons +
Muzzin + Kempe + Shore to Tampa for Drouin + Namestnikov
McNabb + Clifford/Lewis to Boston for K. Miller + 2nd (or M.Subban + 3rd)
Sign Alzner 4 years @ 4.25m

Drouin--Kopitar--Carter
Pearson--Namestnikov--Toffoli
Brown/Gaborik--Girgensons--Brodz
Mersch--Dowd--Lewis/Clifford
Nolan

Forbort--Doughty
Alzner--LaDue
Gravel--K.Miller
Fantenberg

Quick
Campbell/Subban

But that's my NHL 17 dreaming

I don't think trading Muzzin and Martinez is the way to go, although Alzner would look good in black. You think Namestnikov is a second-line center? I don't.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

I don't think trading Muzzin and Martinez is the way to go, although Alzner would look good in black. You think Namestnikov is a second-line center? I don't.

I think Martinez is the dman LA needs to move. But Muzzin would be the only one with enough value to help bring back a young top6 skilled winger that LA needs. Alzner should only be signed if Muzzin is moved. Namestnikov is a stud. The World Hockey Championships during the playoffs showed how good he is. The kid has talent and putting him with Pearson/Toffoli while moving Carter up with Kopitar would be a deadly top 6.

 

[kovacro]

I don't think trading Muzzin and Martinez is the way to go, although Alzner would look good in black. You think Namestnikov is a second-line center? I don't.

Pass on that, overrated. His play declined this past year in Washington. Let someone else overpay and be disappointed.

 

[lumbergh]

That's the key point but this is HF so it's not gonna fly. The Kings are in win now mode, Blake wants more offense-you get neither of those with Brown returning. As far as Brown's 5v5 numbers those stats helped the Kings to miss the playoffs.

Again, Brown's performance wasn't the reason why the Kings missed the playoffs. His points per 60 minutes at 5vs5 are in the same ball park as noted top six forwards such as Taylor Hall, Corey Perry, Alex Steen, Ryan Johansen, Henrik Sedin, Patrice Bergeron, and James Neal.

I'm not against moving Brown if there's a good deal to be made, but losing a lottery pick just to move his contract is not a good use of assets. Dustin Brown is not worth $5.875 million a year AAV, but he does have value. What he did on the ice this year is right in line with a solid top six forward. He's still one of the league's best hitters. He wasn't the problem. Kopitar, Muzzin, and Toffoli, on the other hand...

All this in spite of the fact that Sutter used Brown as a bottom six forward for half the season. I would argue that for the past couple of seasons Sutter has misused Brown, putting him in situations he can't succeed in. Part of good coaching is finding ways to maximize player performance. Sutter chose to pair Brown with Dowd, who's a marginal NHL center at this point, for a good quarter of the season. I don't understand why Brown spent more time with Dowd than with Carter, who is dynamite with Brown and Pearson. Had Brown been on Carter and Pearson's line all season, we might not be talking about how desperately the Kings need to move Brown.

 

[johnjm22]

That's a better team, but why is Trotman near the roster? Where's Fantenberg?

Fantenberg > McNabb, Trotman and possibly Gravel, LaDue and Forbort.
He's the same age as LaDue, Gravel and Forbort and has played on the Swedish National Worlds 3 times and was an all-star in Russia this past season. 23 pts for a D in Russia in 44 games is equivalent to 40+ pts in the NHL. 5th on his team in scoring. Most King scouts hve seen him play and Yanetti said he's great hockey sense and moves the puck very fast. I just don't think Gravel, LaDue and Forbort could have accopmplished all that in the last 4 years in Sweden and Russia. 10 pts in the SHL playoffs in the 2016 playoffs in 16 games for Frolunda. 3rd in defenseman scoring in the SHL playoffs. Again, I am not saying he's better than Forbort, LaDue and Gravel...I wrote possibly. But I bet those 3 would have not accomplihed what Fantenberg has the last 5 years in the SHL and KHL. It's pretty impressive.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=13743

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120272

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0072852017.html

Kevin Dallman is on of the greatest defensemen in KHL history. Are Dallman's 50+ point seasons the equivalent of scoring 100pts in the NHL?

If Fantenberg comes in here and is even good enough to be a quality bottom pairing defenseman that would be fantastic, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[lumbergh]

Muzzin + 2nd/3rd for Landeskog

Landeskog-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Brown
Brodzinski-Kempe-Gaborik/Lewis
Clifford-Shore-Nolan/Lewis
Nolan/Dowd

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-McNabb
Gravel-Ladue
Fantenberg

Quick
Campbell/FA

I think that's a good lineup, but there's a hole at 3rd line center. The Kings really need a pleasant surprise from Adrian Kempe, Nick Shore or Nic Dowd, otherwise they'll have to go out and pick up a rental at the deadline.

 

[KingsHockey24]

I know he's a rental and all but I wouldn't mind seeing James Neal on the team. I'd prefer him over Kane/JVR.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Muzzin + 2nd/3rd for Landeskog

Landeskog-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Brown
Brodzinski-Kempe-Gaborik/Lewis
Clifford-Shore-Nolan/Lewis
Nolan/Dowd

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-McNabb
Gravel-Ladue
Fantenberg

Quick
Campbell/FA

I think that's a good lineup, but there's a hole at 3rd line center. The Kings really need a pleasant surprise from Adrian Kempe, Nick Shore or Nic Dowd, otherwise they'll have to go out and pick up a rental at the deadline.

Muzzin + 2nd round pick isn't getting you Landeskog. More like LaDue + 1st + more

Their thinking is that they'll just sign Doughty in 2 summers so there's no point in giving up major assets to get him now. Same as how they thought they were getting Stamkos.