Toggle sidebar

Prospect Info: 2017 NHL Draft / Pick #7 - Lias Andersson (C)

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
  • We are currently aware of "log in/security error" issues that are affecting some users. We apologize and ask for your patience as we try to get these issues fixed.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Tawnos said:
Both legitimately matter.

Look, playing dirty is disrespectful to your opponents as people. But like i said earlier, disrespect is not universally a bad thing. In the context of the game at the time you’re referring to, not showing your opponents physical respect was a big part of accomplishing your goals. It was a different time and guess what? That DOES excuse the behavior of the people who were brought up in it. Applying modern standards of morality to a past with different standards of morality doesn’t do anyone any good. I don’t think anyone would claim that the way Messier played wasn’t disrespectful to his opponents well-being. The question is more whether or not such a disrespect can really be considered reprehensible.
Click to expand...

I don't want to take this in a bad direction but politically we're applying modern standards of morality to the 1400s and the 1800s and that's seen as normal. I normally disagree with that myself, but 1996 wasn't that long ago.
 
Nopuckluck said:
This might get deleted but I won't be surprised. Love what the kid did. Shows he hates losing. Wish some of our current guys felt the same. As far as hockey today compared to the game I grew up with. No fell in love with....that's laughable.

Hockey today is a metaphor for our society. Just look at how soft and sensitive everyone has become. I didn't get my way do I'm going to protest.
Click to expand...
Wasn't what he did a sign of protest? He didn't even want the dude to put the medal around his neck.
 
Graves94 said:
LOL, I can't understand all these people criticizing an 18 year old, for not following the norm after accepting a loser medal, but everyone is ok when players of conference winning teams don't touch the conference trophy, when presented by Bill Daly (Assistant Commissioner of the league they play in)!
But that's ok, because it has become the norm not to touch it, because it's superstitious...lol! Talk about disrespecting someone, poor guy (Daly) looks like a tool during the presentation...
Click to expand...

Isn't that the point, though? The key word is norm. Not touching the trophy has become the tradition. Now I don't know what occurred when the first group of guys didn't touch the trophy and whether they got any backlash. Throwing a medal hasn't become the norm. Maybe it will one day and we all look back and laugh about this. But until then...
 
SnowblindNYR said:
I don't want to take this in a bad direction but politically we're applying modern standards of morality to the 1400s and the 1800s and that's seen as normal. I normally disagree with that myself, but 1996 wasn't that long ago.
Click to expand...

We are? I don’t think that’s seen as normal at all.
 
Irishguy42 said:
We done talking about Messier? Not entirely relevant here.

What has Swedish media said about the toss? Coaching staff/teammates?
Click to expand...

Hi, I am a Swedish Canucks fan living in Portland OR who has always liked the Rangers. I used to live in Northern VA and went to NYC off and on to watch the Rangers (don't like the Caps). The Swedish media complained a lot about the Canadians players embellishment, especially in the 3rd period. With regards to Lias's toss, officially they have not said much but most Swedish fans loved it. Finally a Swede showing his feelings etc. This guy is a winner etc. He was also playing slightly injured but he himself said that if he can stand up he has to play.
He was the driving force behind the team and I personally think he's a great prospect.

Best Regards,
 
  • Like
Reactions: belford222, Alluckks, ecemleafs and 2 others
SnowblindNYR said:
Sure. But my point is we're talking about not applying modern standards of morality to hockey that happened 20 to 30 years ago meanwhile we do the same with something from half a millennium ago without batting an eye.
Click to expand...


I think people are making a big deal out of a player tossing a medal over the glass. It's not as if he threw it away into the 200 section almost injuring someone. It's his medal. He can do with it whatever he wants. When New Zealand won the rugby world cup one of their players have his gold medal to a kid in the stands and everyone was praising him for being such a nice guy. What's the difference here?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Graves94 and SnowblindNYR
SnowblindNYR said:
I mean some cities have renamed Columbus Day because he did bad things in the 1400s and 1500s.
Click to expand...

I consider that different. No one is looking at Columbus as saying “once we thought he was a good dude because he killed all those people, but now in our modern moral standard we don’t think that anymore.” What’s happening around Columbus is more of a “now we have a better understanding of what really happened then and maybe it’s not so appropriate to be honoring him.”

On this topic, the comparable would be finding out that Frank Boucher was actually an incredibly dirty player and revoking his ownership of the Lady Byng trophy. It’s not so much that our standards changed as our opinions changed based on new information.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alluckks
Tawnos said:
You seem to think that the disrespect came from giving the medal away. It didn’t. It came from the manner in which he did it.

The ideas ARE mutually exclusive, since they have to do with different things. One is about how you interact with the people you are competing with and the other has to do with how you interact with the world outside of that competition.

To rephrase your words in another way: you can’t just put them in the same bucket because they both have to do with respect. Respect in shown in different ways in different situations. It’s not a universal thing that you do the same way all the time.
Click to expand...

Oh please. Everyone here knows that Lias' intention was in no way an attempt to disrespect his opponents, his team, or the game itself. He had a gold or bust mentality going into the tournament and his frustration was riding high after they blew it with a minute left, so he didn't want another silver medal and gave it to a fan. Immature? Sure, but any "disrespect" is just projection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alluckks, ecemleafs, Samuel Culper III and 1 other person
Calad said:
Oh please. Everyone here knows that Lias' intention was in no way an attempt to disrespect his opponents, his team, or the game itself. He had a gold or bust mentality going into the tournament and his frustration was riding high after they blew it with a minute left, so he didn't want another silver medal and gave it to a fan. Immature? Sure, but any "disrespect" is just projection.
Click to expand...

It literally doesn’t matter what his intention was. It matters what his action was.
 
Tawnos said:
It literally doesn’t matter what his intention was. It matters what his action was.
Click to expand...

And the consequence of his actions? A whole lotta butthurt people, that had nothing to do with it. Consequentialism says idgaf.

He played a great tournament, injured iirc, lotta passion. The way I see it, we picked to right guy at #7. Mittelstadt maybe an offensive wizard, but he seems weak and tbh one big hit might crush the midget. We needed a top 6 two-way C, that's Andersson right there. Zibby is our offensive 1# C, then Chytil.
 
NYRFANMANI said:
And the consequence of his actions? A whole lotta butthurt people, that had nothing to do with it. Consequentialism says idgaf.
Click to expand...

If you read back through this thread, you will see that I thought it was disrespectful, but that I don’t have a problem with that.
 
Calad said:
His action was giving away a medal that he felt a fan would treasure much more than himself. Who are you to decide that his intentions didn't matter?
Click to expand...

Intentions rarely matter. Also, I’m deciding for myself. It’s called an opinion.

And again, it’s not the fact he gave the medal away. It’s how he did it.
 
Calad said:
Oh please. Everyone here knows that Lias' intention was in no way an attempt to disrespect his opponents, his team, or the game itself. He had a gold or bust mentality going into the tournament and his frustration was riding high after they blew it with a minute left, so he didn't want another silver medal and gave it to a fan. Immature? Sure, but any "disrespect" is just projection.
Click to expand...

This is probably the simplest and best answer I have seen. Wish we could all agree to leave it at this. Immature? Sure. Disrespect? Our own projections and speculations. He had a gold or bust mentality after losing the U16 and U18, he carried his team, while injured and when they blew it in the final MINUTES of the tournament he made an emotional decision. The end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SnowblindNYR
I compared what they wrote here in Sweden about the thing and what North American media wrote. I can conclude that Swedish media cares a whole lot less about what happened than the USA and Canada.
What I found in Swedish media was mostly articles that stated that they understand why he did it, and some even supported what he did. I also found articles that wrote about American/Canadian hockey profiles agreeing with what he did and then an interview with Borje Salming who said that he hoped Lias got it back in case he would regret losing it later.

Of course some did not agree with what he did, but those comments were mostly written on Twitter or Facebook.
 
The dude is frustrated, in the past year he was drafted by the rangers (loved in sweden due to lundqvist) with their first pick... then told to go back while he watched a (younger) Chytil stay and play in the AHL. He wants to win, and he's already won a silver medal playing with team sweden. I view it as immaturity but more importantly a sign that he cares. I don't think young Derek Stepan ever would have cared that much. Looking forward to seeing him in blue when he's ready.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SnowblindNYR
Tawnos said:
Intentions rarely matter. Also, I’m deciding for myself. It’s called an opinion.

And again, it’s not the fact he gave the medal away. It’s how he did it.
Click to expand...

Agree to disagree on that. No one was harmed by his actions, there isn't a victim, and the people who are 'offended' are made up of a lot of armchair Canadian sore winners. So I think that his intentions should absolutely be taken into consideration in regards to his action in this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SnowblindNYR
Tawnos said:
I consider that different. No one is looking at Columbus as saying “once we thought he was a good dude because he killed all those people, but now in our modern moral standard we don’t think that anymore.” What’s happening around Columbus is more of a “now we have a better understanding of what really happened then and maybe it’s not so appropriate to be honoring him.”

On this topic, the comparable would be finding out that Frank Boucher was actually an incredibly dirty player and revoking his ownership of the Lady Byng trophy. It’s not so much that our standards changed as our opinions changed based on new information.
Click to expand...

I mean now we have a better understanding of concussions. But that's besides the point. I can't fathom that 20 short years ago elbowing was a good thing. Besides people STILL glorify it and that's with modern day knowledge of CTE.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
I mean now we have a better understanding of concussions. But that's besides the point. I can't fathom that 20 short years ago elbowing was a good thing. Besides people STILL glorify it and that's with modern day knowledge of CTE.
Click to expand...

Just for the record, I don't glorify people who elbow for room in the subway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SnowblindNYR
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom