2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jame]

Remind me where Chychrun went again?

Exactly where I predicted while being mocked for it for months? Even nailed the exact 4 D that would be drafted before him.

Thanks for reminding everyone that I was dead on right.

You said No D would go in the top 8....
you failed it.

Regardless... predicting "where" players will be drafted is meaningless.

 

[Jame]

I had him near Gildon, Davidsson, Mismash and Phillips but Gildon had impressed me from what I saw at the U18's enough to get up to the top of that cluster. I see a lot of elbows and knees but didn't get the idea that he was actually getting anywhere quickly.

I like him, just decided to go a different way.

yea, I have him significantly higher than that group.

Would you agree that Heponiemi is has a skillset we lack in our pipeline?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

why not go watch a Brannstrom video, or some of the U18 games he dominated... and tell us what YOU think?

The game is changing... and players like Makar and Brannstrom (if they reach their potential) are going to continue to change it.

I am not going to pretend I know better than people that do this for a living from a few youtube clips Like Ive seen some and he's playing well but it depends on competition, quality of team and system, etc. It's hard to judge a player in isolation. Scouts seem quite split up on him and I don't know enough to say which of them are right and which are wrong. I like what I see but that's just highlights - you can make almost any prospect good on highlights lol

 

[Jame]

Remind me where Chychrun went again?

Exactly where I predicted while being mocked for it for months? Even nailed the exact 4 D that would be drafted before him.

Thanks for reminding everyone that I was dead on right.

Close... but no

Fabbro was drafted after Chychrun (You claimed 5 D would go before Chychrun)

 

[Icicle]

Kane + 8OA for 3OA or 4OA. It would be nice to have one of the top-2. The major reason we were seemingly okay at 8 before was because some thought Makar might drop on down, but there's clear consensus with the scouts this won't be the case. We don't have the depth at defense to rely on such a boom/bust like Liljergen. If Kane doesn't do it, I don't worry about it though. Vancouver at 5OA is the most likely to take that trade, but I doubt those two make it past 3/4.

 

[Jame]

I am not going to pretend I know better than people that do this for a living from a few youtube clips Like Ive seen some and he's playing well but it depends on competition, quality of team and system, etc. It's hard to judge a player in isolation. Scouts seem quite split up on him and I don't know enough to say which of them are right and which are wrong. I like what I see but that's just highlights - you can make almost any prospect good on highlights lol

It's not about knowing better... It's about having an opinion. Be wrong, so what? Your deference to a group of people who consistently get it wrong is weird. These are the same people who universally viewed Zach Bogosian as a top 5 pick.

It's like this... you think Ullmark is better than Lehner. Are you a professional hockey coach? For some reason, after watching Ullmark play what... a couple games? You are capable of giving your own opinion. You're confident in that opinion. You defend that opinion. Why are you not able to do that with prospects?

I thought Filip Ahl was a 1st round talent. I had him in my top 30 last year... he went in the 4th round. So what....

It's not hard to judge players in isolation. Watch them, decide what you think, tell us.... guess what? It's more fun than aggregating every one else's opinion.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

It's not about knowing better... It's about having an opinion. Be wrong, so what? Your deference to a group of people who consistently get it wrong is weird. These are the same people who universally viewed Zach Bogosian as a top 5 pick.

It's like this... you think Ullmark is better than Lehner. Are you a professional hockey coach? For some reason, after watching Ullmark play what... a couple games? You are capable of giving your own opinion. You're confident in that opinion. You defend that opinion. Why are you not able to do that with prospects?

I thought Filip Ahl was a 1st round talent. I had him in my top 30 last year... he went in the 4th round. So what....

It's not hard to judge players in isolation. Watch them, decide what you think, tell us.... guess what? It's more fun than aggregating every one else's opinion.

Well I've seen much more of Ullmark and Lehner to have formed an opinion on them rather than some prospect playing in juniors who I see only on youtube videos (I don't watch juniors in the UK lol...) Youtube videos can make anyone look good cause they tend to cut out players playing badly. So for prospects I tend to rely on scout's opinions rather than to pretend to know what I'm talking about them

 

[Samsonite23]

Remind me where Chychrun went again?

Exactly where I predicted while being mocked for it for months? Even nailed the exact 4 D that would be drafted before him.

Thanks for reminding everyone that I was dead on right.

Yeah, look at how crappy all of those d look right now! Glad we didn't take one.....

 

[Onslow]

If it's true that he has questionable IQ, then count me down as being wary of Liljegren.

I've wanted Heiskanen since around Xmas before he shot up the draft boards. Oh well I guess.

 

[Aladyyn]

Well I've seen much more of Ullmark and Lehner to have formed an opinion on them rather than some prospect playing in juniors who I see only on youtube videos (I don't watch juniors in the UK lol...) Youtube videos can make anyone look good cause they tend to cut out players playing badly. So for prospects I tend to rely on scout's opinions rather than to pretend to know what I'm talking about them

I think all perspectives are valuable. There are hobbyists who put a lot of time into researching prospects so they can provide an informed opinion and simply ignoring it because they don't get paid for it is is short-sighted.

Also, they don't have to care about clicks

 

[Aladyyn]

If it's true that he has questionable IQ, then count me down as being wary of Liljegren.

I've wanted Heiskanen since around Xmas before he shot up the draft boards. Oh well I guess.

Wasn't that the "problem" with Chychrun as well? The situations seems pretty similar.

 

[MackAttack26]

Here is my rankings/tiers heading into draft week...

1(1). Nico Hischier
1(2). Elias Pettersson
1(3). Nolan Patrick

2(4). Owen Tippett
2(5). Martin Necas
2(6). Casey Mittelstadt
2(7). Miro Heiskanen
2(8). Cale Makar

3(9). Cody Glass
3(10). Gabriel Vilardi
3(11). Timothy Liljegren
3(12). Nick Suzuki
3(13). Juuso Valimaki
3(14). Lias Andersson

4(15). Kristian Vesalainen
4(16). Eeli Tolvanen
4(17). Klim Kostin
4(18). Joni Ikonen
4(19). Kailer Yamamoto
4(20). Erik Brannstrom
4(21). Ryan Poehling
4(22). Robert Thomas
4(23). Callan Foote
4(24). Shane Bowers
4(25). Jake Oettinger

5(26). P.O. Joseph
5(27). Jonah Gadjovich
5(28). Isaac Ratcliffe
5(29). Jesper Boqvist
5(30). Michael DiPietro
5(31). Antoine Morand
5(32). Michael Rasmussen
5(33). Jason Robertson
5(34). Nicolas Hague
5(35). Marcus Davidsson
5(36). Ivan Lodnia
5(37). Conor Timmins
5(38). Kole Lind

6(39). Alex Formenton
6(40). Noel Hoefenmayer
6(41). Urho Vaakanainen
6(42). Nikita Popugayev
6(43). Jaret Anderson-Dolan
6(44). Morgan Geekie
6(45). Robin Salo
6(46). Sasha Chmelevski
6(47). Markus Phillips
6(48). David Farrance
6(49). Josh Brook
6(50). Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen


Really would love it if we took the risk on Pettersson at 8 if we go forward. Just no Rasmussen please and I'd likely be pretty fine with whoever else we take.

 

[Onslow]

Wasn't that the "problem" with Chychrun as well? The situations seems pretty similar.

I don't remember if questionable IQ was a concern with him, honestly.

On Chychrun, I wouldn't be so hasty to describe him as a success just yet. We've seen plenty of young dmen look good early on and then regress badly. Tyler Myers, Luke Schenn, Zach Bogosian... Hell even Ekblad had a relatively poor showing last season. What I'm saying is that idk if Chychrun can be used as a "told ya so" example of a Dman who fell in the draft unnecessarily, and should have been picked top 5. Not yet anyways.

 

[Jame]

Well I've seen much more of Ullmark and Lehner to have formed an opinion on them rather than some prospect playing in juniors who I see only on youtube videos (I don't watch juniors in the UK lol...) Youtube videos can make anyone look good cause they tend to cut out players playing badly.

You pretend to know what you are talking about regarding Ullmark... since you saw him play exactly 1 game this entire season.

Why not start telling us what you are seeing... even in those limited youtube videos you have access too. Or maybe even watch a full game. There are plenty of tournament games available, not to mention league packages.

You can get a junior league package for $50.
You can pick a single game to watch for $3

Go watch Swift Current vs Regina in the playoffs, and report back on Heponiemi... I think he's awesome (1st rounder), but the consensus is 2nd-3rd rounder. You can also check out Filip Ahl... that guy who went in the 4th round last year... he's on Regina and was a dominant man beast in the playoffs.

So for prospects I tend to rely on scout's opinions rather than to pretend to know what I'm talking about them

It's ok to admit that you don't know what you are talking about
Stop implying that everyone else is equally incapable.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Remind me where Chychrun went again?

Exactly where I predicted while being mocked for it for months? Even nailed the exact 4 D that would be drafted before him.

Thanks for reminding everyone that I was dead on right.

Super glad we passed on Sergachev and McAvoy.

You were right in your mock prediction.

You were wrong in your assessment: no D was worth 8th overall.

So, sweet mock, terrible assessment. You won't answer for your assessment, you never do.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I'm not sure I've seen a better 1st round draft ranking than Jame's. I'd make a few minor adjustments, but he nailed it as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Jame]

I'm not sure I've seen a better 1st round draft ranking than Jame's. I'd make a few minor adjustments, but he nailed it as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks

 

[Old Navy Goat]

My preference right now is Glass at 8 if Makar and Heiskanen are gone. If Glass is gone, then I want Valimaki. I don't care if he's ranked 13th or so, I'd rather make a slight reach then see someone else grab him.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

You pretend to know what you are talking about regarding Ullmark... since you saw him play exactly 1 game this entire season.

Why not start telling us what you are seeing... even in those limited youtube videos you have access too. Or maybe even watch a full game. There are plenty of tournament games available, not to mention league packages.

You can get a junior league package for $50.
You can pick a single game to watch for $3

Go watch Swift Current vs Regina in the playoffs, and report back on Heponiemi... I think he's awesome (1st rounder), but the consensus is 2nd-3rd rounder. You can also check out Filip Ahl... that guy who went in the 4th round last year... he's on Regina and was a dominant man beast in the playoffs.





It's ok to admit that you don't know what you are talking about
Stop implying that everyone else is equally incapable.

No, Im not going to go pay to watch junior hockey. NHL is more than enough for someone living across the ocean - its hard enough to warch that, let alone to do this with juniors. Hockey is not the only sport I follow...

Its ok you can to have your own rankings. All I said is I dont know where it is good position to take Brannstrom and if we should take him at all based on the opinion of people who are paid to do this research. And no matter what you say, I would trust their opinion more than Jame from JF.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2017-nhl-mock-draft-no-deficiencies-nolan-patricks-game/

1. NEW JERSEY DEVILS
Nico Hischier, Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL): The Swiss Mister has it all. He can play both ends of the ice, with offensive flair. He’s not quite as dynamic as Ehlers, Drouin or MacKinnon, but at this age, he’s more well-rounded.

2. PHILADELPHIA FLYERS
Nolan Patrick, Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL): There are no deficiencies in his game and he can be relied on to play in any situation. Marry the skill with size and include being a right shot, and all the pieces come together.

3. DALLAS STARS
Miro Heiskanen, HIFK (Finland): As a two-way defenceman, he processes and executes the game in mistake-free fashion. A growth spurt moved him from the 20-something crowd into top-five territory.

4. COLORADO AVALANCHE
Cale Makar, Brooks Bandits (AJHL): Could be considered the most dynamic player in the draft. Makar has elite skating ability and can handle the puck at top speed. Forget the competition, but look closer at his international play and back-to-back national championship appearances and consider he was arguably the best player in the 2017 WJAC and RBC Cup.

5. VANCOUVER CANUCKS
Elias Pettersson, Timra (SWE-2): Effective in every offensive situation with a skill set that’s off the charts. Height isn’t the problem, but his slight frame leaves little room to pack on a few more pounds.

6. VEGAS GOLDEN KNIGHTS
Cody Glass, Portland Winterhawks (WHL): Has treated several potential mountains as mole hills along his path to becoming an NHL player. Highly motivated with a skill set to match, Glass was amongst the highest risers from the start of the season.

7. ARIZONA COYOTES
Gabe Vilardi, Windsor Spitfires (OHL). Few players can control the puck on the wall and down low like Vilardi. He’s got an NHL ready shot and release with a good frame. Vilardi takes to coaching well and has great desire to improve on a daily.

8. BUFFALO SABRES
Martin Necas, Brno (CZE): Great skating ability with good stick skills, Necas held his own against men, rarely backing down as a result of a Rolls Royce motor.

 

[Chainshot]

yea, I have him significantly higher than that group.

Would you agree that Heponiemi is has a skillset we lack in our pipeline?

Yes I would agree with that. His ability to create is certainly an asset they don't have in the pipeline especially on left wing. I would not have any issue if he were one of their picks.

 

[Chainshot]

My preference right now is Glass at 8 if Makar and Heiskanen are gone. If Glass is gone, then I want Valimaki. I don't care if he's ranked 13th or so, I'd rather make a slight reach then see someone else grab him.

He would also be an excellent pick. Much like zip, the only player I am afraid of at number eight is Rasmussen.

 

[jBuds]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2017-nhl-mock-draft-no-deficiencies-nolan-patricks-game/

Probably close to what we see ... think thetop four is nailed

 

[Der Jaeger]

Awesome job.

Here's mine:

Tier Rank Player Position
1 1 Makar, Cale D
1 2 Hischier, Nico C
1 3 Patrick, Nolan C
1 4 Heiskanen, Miro D

2 5 Glass, Cody C
2 6 Vilardi, Gabe C
2 7 Valimaki, Juuso D
2 8 Brannstrom, Erik D
2 9 Mittelstadt, Casey C
2 10 Liljegren, Timothy D

3 11 Pettersson, Elias C
3 12 Kostin, Klim C
3 13 Poehling, Ryan C
3 14 Necas, Martin RW

4 15 Vaakanainen, Urho D
4 16 Suzuki, Nick C
4 17 Tippett, Owen RW
4 18 Norris, Joshua C
4 19 Tolvanen, Eeli LW
4 20 Heponiemi, Aleksi C
4 21 Jokiharju, Henri D
4 22 Foote, Callan D

5 23 Andersson, Lias LW
5 24 Vesalainen, Kristian LW
5 25 Yamamoto, Kailer RW
5 26 Ratcliffe, Isaac LW
5 27 Geekie, Morgan C
5 28 Hague, Nicolas D
5 29 Gadjovich, Jonah LW
5 30 Minulin, Artyom D
5 31 Timmins, Conor D
5 32 Anderson-Dolan, Jaret C

6 33 Oettinger, Jake G
6 34 Robertson, Jason LW
6 35 Lind, Kole RW
6 36 Henry, Nick RW
6 37 Davidson, Marcus C
6 38 Thomas, Robert C
6 39 Comtois, Maxime LW
6 40 Rasanen, Eemeli D
6 41 Rasmussen, Michael C
6 42 Bowers, Shane C
6 43 Formenton, Alex LW
6 44 Brook, Josh D
6 45 Popugaev, Nikita RW
6 46 Joseph, Pierre-Olivier D
6 47 Mismash, Grant LW
6 48 Lipanov, Alexei C
6 49 Lewis, Ty LW
6 50 Gildon, Maxwell D

Good list.

More and more I see 37 OA as trade bait. I haven't seen a list yet where I really likes the players in the tier.