2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

[Team Cozens]

My preference right now is Glass at 8 if Makar and Heiskanen are gone. If Glass is gone, then I want Valimaki. I don't care if he's ranked 13th or so, I'd rather make a slight reach then see someone else grab him.

Exactly the same for me.

 

[Reddawg]

My preference right now is Glass at 8 if Makar and Heiskanen are gone. If Glass is gone, then I want Valimaki. I don't care if he's ranked 13th or so, I'd rather make a slight reach then see someone else grab him.

I want Makar, then Heiskanen, then Glass, then Vilardi, then Liljegren. Should be able to get one of those...with about 80% likelyhood that it's Liljegren.

 

[Der Jaeger]

My preference right now is Glass at 8 if Makar and Heiskanen are gone. If Glass is gone, then I want Valimaki. I don't care if he's ranked 13th or so, I'd rather make a slight reach then see someone else grab him.

I'd do that too.

I'd love if GMJB could trade Kane to get somewhere mid-1st and snag a falling Liljegren or Brannstrom. One of them, plus Valimaki, would be a great haul.

 

[Team Cozens]

He would also be an excellent pick. Much like zip, the only player I am afraid of at number eight is Rasmussen.

How would you compare Necas vs. Mittelstadt if Glass is off the board ?

 

[Moskau]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2017-nhl-mock-draft-no-deficiencies-nolan-patricks-game/

I don't think that mock is far off from what we will see. I think Necas is the dark horse of the draft. But if the draft plays out like that I would just trade down a few spots and take one of the 2nd tier defensemen.

 

[Jame]

Good list.

More and more I see 37 OA as trade bait. I haven't seen a list yet where I really likes the players in the tier.

I like 37 when I look at the "consensus" list...
I dislike 37 when I look at my list...

Look at that consolidated/aggregated top 31... I have tier 4 players in the 14-22 range... who aren't on the list, or are at the bottom of it
No Heponiemi
No Jokiharju
Josh Norris at 29
... so in that sense, I cross my fingers at 37 that a gem falls in our lap at 37.

But ultimately, I'd much rather package 37 to move up for Makar

 

[truthbluth]

Trade up: Heiskanen
Trade up: Makar
Stay Put: Liljegren
Stay Put: Valimaki
Trade for established D
Trade down: pick up 2018 picks, draft (in order) Vaakinainen, Brannstrom, Foote
Trade down: pick up 2017 picks, draft (in order) Vaakinainen, Brannstrom, Foote
Stay Put: Draft (in order): Gabe Vilardi, Cody Glass, Casey Mittelstadt, (In no order): Elias Pettersson, Martin Necas, Klim Kostin


That is my ordered wish list.

I realize that I've changed my tune, but I'm off the Tippett train.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I like 37 when I look at the "consensus" list...
I dislike 37 when I look at my list...

Look at that consolidated/aggregated top 31... I have tier 4 players in the 14-22 range... who aren't on the list, or are at the bottom of it
No Heponiemi
No Jokiharju
Josh Norris at 29
... so in that sense, I cross my fingers at 37 that a gem falls in our lap at 37.

But ultimately, I'd much rather package 37 to move up for Makar

In this draft, I'd package 8, 37, and 54 to trade up.

 

[Jame]

In this draft, I'd package 8, 37, and 54 to trade up.

I'd throw in Kane (for Makar)

 

[Jame]

Played the draft simulator...

Sabres Draft Simulation from draftwired

Picks:
Rd 1 Pk 8 - Cale Makar (RD) Brooks
Rd 1 Pk 24 - Erik Brannstrom (LD) HV-71 Trades (24) from CBJ for (37, 89, 99)
Rd 2 Pk 54 - Pierre-Olivier Joseph (LD) Charlottetown

dreams

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'd throw in Kane (for Makar)

I would too. Just don't know if he's what Dallas is looking for.

Vancouver? Sure. But I don't see Makar getting to 5. And I don't see Benning trading the pick if Makar is there.

Remember all the flak we got for ranking Makar this high a month ago?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I would too. Just don't know if he's what Dallas is looking for.

Vancouver? Sure. But I don't see Makar getting to 5. And I don't see Benning trading the pick if Makar is there.

Remember all the flak we got for ranking Makar this high a month ago?

I dont know why people are rating Makar higher than Miro. Miro is great too. I would like to think one of them is available at 5 and 6 where Vancouver and Vegas are picking and Im confident we can swing some sort of deal with one of the two if hes still there. Either with picks or with Kane as pluses depending on the trade partner. If Makar slips instead of Miro thats even better.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I dont know why people are rating Makar higher than Miro. Miro is great too. I would like to think one of them is available at 5 and 6 where Vancouver and Vegas are picking and Im confident we can swing some sort of deal with one of the two if hes still there. Either with picks or with Kane as pluses depending on the trade partner. If Makar slips instead of Miro thats even better.

Because you're going with consensus.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Because you're going with consensus.

Miro plays well against men, Makar plays well against well dont even know what to call his competition. There is no guarantee Makar turns out a better D than Miro. Not saying it wont happen but somehow everyone here is now convinced it will happen and I dont understand why. Im sure if you put Liljegren in Makars situation he will destroy the opposition too for example...

 

[Jame]

I would too. Just don't know if he's what Dallas is looking for.

Vancouver? Sure. But I don't see Makar getting to 5. And I don't see Benning trading the pick if Makar is there.

Remember all the flak we got for ranking Makar this high a month ago?

I was getting on the bandwagon April 10th
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=130633001&postcount=39

It happens every year, if your board/rankings are anything more than a reshuffling of the aggregated consensus... it gets flak... doesn't bother me. I'm much happier to be dead wrong on my own, then simply flipping the 5,6,7 consensus prospects and pretending it's an opinion

 

[Jame]

I dont know why people are rating Makar higher than Miro. Miro is great too. I would like to think one of them is available at 5 and 6 where Vancouver and Vegas are picking and Im confident we can swing some sort of deal with one of the two if hes still there. Either with picks or with Kane as pluses depending on the trade partner. If Makar slips instead of Miro thats even better.

You don't know why anyone is ranking anyone anywhere.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Miro plays well against men, Makar llays well against well dont even know what to call his competition. There is no guarantee Makar turns out a better D than Miro. Not saying it wont happen but somehow everyone here is mow convinced it will happen and I dont understand why. Im sure if you put Liljegren in Makars sotuation he will destroy the opposition too for example...

Who's potential is higher?

When you're drafting for players who may not contribute for a year or two (or three), potential matters a lot. And Makar has the most potential of any player in the draft.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I was getting on the bandwagon April 10th
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=130633001&postcount=39

It happens every year, if your board/rankings are anything more than a reshuffling of the aggregated consensus... it gets flak... doesn't bother me. I'm much happier to be dead wrong on my own, then simply flipping the 5,6,7 consensus prospects and pretending it's an opinion

Same. I was somewhere around that time as well.

Makar was tough. No games on Neulion to watch.

 

[Jame]

Same. I was somewhere around that time as well.

Makar was tough. No games on Neulion to watch.

Exactly.
I've never rated a player like Makar so high, with such limited viewing... He's simply special, one of kind... yea, he could be an epic bust. There's no crystal balls in this game. But his skill is off the charts. It's not a function of lesser competition, and it's not something that's only showing in highlight videos. It's there. I see it.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Who's potential is higher?

When you're drafting for players who may not contribute for a year or two (or three), potential matters a lot. And Makar has the most potential of any player in the draft.

And whis floor is lower? If we are gonna ask silly questions... also for all we know Miro may turn into a Duncan Keith-like player. Thats some quite high potential, no? The way I see it Makar maybe has a higher ceiling and Miro has a higher floor but thats just random estimates and 1 may turn into a complete bust like numerous other top 10 picks... you have all convinced yourselves Makar will reach his potential and will be the next Karlsson...What Im saying is I dont mind if I get the next Karlsson or the next Keith as long as I get one of them. Hence why I would not be against trading up to 5-6 range for either.

As for Jame's response...nonsense.

 

[Jame]

And whis floor is lower? If we are gonna ask silly questions... also for all we know Miro may turn into a Duncan Keith-like player. Thats some quite high potential, no? The way I see it Makar maybe has a higher ceiling and Miro has a higher floor but thats just random estimates and 1 may turn into a complete bust like numerous other top 10 picks... you have all convinced yourselves Makar will reach his potential and will be the next Karlsson...What Im saying is I dont mind if I get the next Karlsson or the next Keith as long as I get one of them. Hence why I would not be against trading up to 5-6 range for either.

As for Jame's response...nonsense.

You said it yourself, you don't know anything about these prospects.

You don't know why website/service ranks Player A ahead of Player B, you just look at the aggregate results.

And then you waste everyone's time asking "why, why, why"... when you have no basis to understand the answer.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

You said it yourself, you don't know anything about these prospects.

You don't know why website/service ranks Player A ahead of Player B, you just look at the aggregate results.

And then you waste everyone's time asking "why, why, why"... when you have no basis to understand the answer.

You need to chill a bit. I have no basis the answer? Do you think Im a ****** or something? I get it, he has high potential and has shown immense skill versus low level competition. He has not shown he can defend versus grown ups. And you know - in the NHL you have to be able to do that to be a first line D. To my knowledge Miro has shown good potential in this direction tbis season based on write ups on him. I value this. And he also has good offensive upside that one can read abiut or see on said highlights. Both are excellent picks it seems when the draft is considered to be relatively weak for a team that badly needs qualuty D potential in the organization. You arguing that its Makar or bust is just stupid. Again you pretend to know something proffesionals in the game cant seem to agree on. And then you ram it on everyone that dares challenge you. Thats some crap attitude tbh.

 

[truthbluth]

And whis floor is lower? If we are gonna ask silly questions... also for all we know Miro may turn into a Duncan Keith-like player. Thats some quite high potential, no? The way I see it Makar maybe has a higher ceiling and Miro has a higher floor but thats just random estimates and 1 may turn into a complete bust like numerous other top 10 picks... you have all convinced yourselves Makar will reach his potential and will be the next Karlsson...What Im saying is I dont mind if I get the next Karlsson or the next Keith as long as I get one of them. Hence why I would not be against trading up to 5-6 range for either.

As for Jame's response...nonsense.

I prefer Miro to Makar, because I have a thing for hyper intelligent, defensively sound, composed, D with wheels, and it's not like Miro is lacking in skills, he just isn't on Makar's level. I'm fine with either, but we aren't getting either, so

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I prefer Miro to Makar, because I have a thing for hyper intelligent, defensively sound, composed, D with wheels, and it's not like Miro is lacking in skills, he just isn't on Makar's level. I'm fine with either, but we aren't getting either, so

Give Kane to Vancouver or some picks to Vegas and if one slips to 5-6 we coukd have him....I think. Should be a fun few days.

 

[Jame]

You need to chill a bit. I have no basis the answer? Do you think Im a ****** or something?

I don't know what **** is... but probably.

I get it, he has high potential and has shown immense skill versus low level competition. He has not shown he can defend versus grown ups. And you know - in the NHL you have to be able to do that to be a first line D. To my knowledge Miro has shown good potential in this direction tbis season based on write ups on him. I value this. And he also has good offensive upside that one can read abiut or see on said highlights. Both are excellent picks it seems when the draft is considered to be relatively weak for a team that badly needs qualuty D potential in the organization. You arguing that its Makar or bust is just stupid. Again you pretend to know something proffesionals in the game cant seem to agree on. And then you ram it on everyone that dares challenge you. Thats some crap attitude tbh.

If you'll recall. I have Makar and Miro in the same tier. I would gladly trade up for either one.

The bolded is a straw man invention of yours. Not something I've ever said, or insinuated.

I don't "pretend" anything. I have an opinion.
I don't ram that opinion on anyone. But i will question those who rely on consensus/aggregation when they try to question someone who is giving their own legitimate opinion. Step in the ring with your own opinion... or stay out.

I prefer Makar, for very simple reasons. But I'd gladly trade up for either one.