2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

[1972]

Because Makar is the best player in the draft.

Because getting Bo Horvat and Jacob Trouba would be great... but getting Erik Karlsson would be franchise altering.

You think he's going to be as good as Erik Karlsson? I think that's pretty lofty expectations and would put him in the class as a generational talent. Are you certain he isn't Kevin Shattenkirk? (I am not disagreeing just curious)

 

[Jame]

You think he's going to be as good as Erik Karlsson? I think that's pretty lofty expectations and would put him in the class as a generational talent. Are you certain he isn't Kevin Shattenkirk? (I am not disagreeing just curious)

No. I'm not certain at all. Far from it. But I'm willing to take that risk, because the potential to be Erik karlsson is incredibly rare.

 

[Reddawg]

No. I'm not certain at all. Far from it. But I'm willing to take that risk, because the potential to be Erik karlsson is incredibly rare.

I watch Antipin skate, stickhandle and operate in the offensive zone and quietly wonder if we already sniped another Karlsson.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

http://www.sabresprospects.com/2017/06/buffalo-sabres-2017-draft-preview.html

Bakes' draft preview is out.

"Liljegren entered the season as the consensus top rearguard available in the 2017 class. A battle with mononucleosis set him back, and he didn't meet expectations as a result. He is essentially the 2017 version of Jakob Chychrun, an immensely skilled athlete that was so scrutinized for having poor hockey sense that he fell all the way to 17th overall in the 2016 draft.

The bottom line is that all of the raw tools are in place, from his swift, agile skating to the way he thinks the game with a pure transitional mindset. If Liljegren gets the puck in space, look out. With continued coaching, he's the type of player that will thrive when placed among other uber-skilled peers.

While opinions are all over the board on where he he will ultimately land come draft day, I believe that Liljegren cannot be passed on by Buffalo if Botterill and Housley are truly the right people for their respective positions. Development. Development. Development. You're not drafting for today. You're drafting for tomorrow.

It may take a bit of patience, but Liljegren may end up being a gem with upside rivaling that of Makar, if he understands his path."

I don't believe I've ever seen Bakes as definitive as this (outside of the easy ones like Eichel and Reinhart).

 

[Aladyyn]

I'm going to be disappointed if we end up drafting at #8. It's a terrible spot for us.

 

[Jame]

I guess Botts&Co would have to be as equally sure of Makar as you are in order to think about making a deal like that. I'd be a whole lot more comfortable if we could somehow get a second 1st round pick from someone before trading away 8 and taking a home-run swing at 3.

If Makar turns into Karlsson, everyone is a genius and the franchise thrives. If he turns into nothing or not much, then we scrapped two of our best trade pieces on the latest Sabres 1st round fiasco. Which would be just as franchise-changing, just in the wrong direction.

Why do you have to be certain?

Are you certain Casey Mittelstadt is going to be a very good NHLer?

Are you certain that Tippett is going to be significantly better than Drew Stafford?

All picks are risks... Forwards are safer... no doubt. But what Makar has the potential to be is the rarest of commodities.

 

[sabrebuild]

I guess Botts&Co would have to be as equally sure of Makar as you are in order to think about making a deal like that. I'd be a whole lot more comfortable if we could somehow get a second 1st round pick from someone before trading away 8 and taking a home-run swing at 3.

If Makar turns into Karlsson, everyone is a genius and the franchise thrives. If he turns into nothing or not much, then we scrapped two of our best trade pieces on the latest Sabres 1st round fiasco. Which would be just as franchise-changing, just in the wrong direction.

Yup. It's too much risk in my book. But I have only watched makars highlight package. Perhaps if I watched several games I could believe.

 

[1972]

I agree with Bakes, people are sleeping on Liljegren just like they did with Chychrun. That package of skill and skating is drool worthy.

 

[Reddawg]

Why do you have to be certain?

Are you certain Casey Mittelstadt is going to be a very good NHLer?

Are you certain that Tippett is going to be significantly better than Drew Stafford?

All picks are risks... Forwards are safer... no doubt. But what Makar has the potential to be is the rarest of commodities.

I'm pretty certain Mittelstadt and Tippett are going to bust, personally. I really like Makar as a prospect, but you have to be absolutely certain he's going to be a big shiny superstar before you spend #8, #37 and Evander Kane acquiring his services. If we had won a lottery spot and were picking #3 outright, then Makar is the pick all day long, of course.

I don't dispute that Makar has the best chance of any player in the draft to be a star for us, but I do dispute that him hitting even 75% of the Karlsson ceiling is worth giving up two good picks and a proven 30 goal scorer to acquire. 75% of Karlsson is what, Torey Krug or Nick Leddy? I wouldn't spend that package to acquire either of those guys. #37 last year could have been Mascherin, DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen...it's not a throwaway. I'd rather have Nylander, Dahlen and Kane than have the next Torey Krug, from a value standpoint.

 

[Aladyyn]

I'm pretty certain Mittelstadt and Tippett are going to bust, personally. I really like Makar as a prospect, but you have to be absolutely certain he's going to be a big shiny superstar before you spend #8, #37 and Evander Kane acquiring his services. If we had won a lottery spot and were picking #3 outright, then Makar is the pick all day long, of course.

I don't dispute that Makar has the best chance of any player in the draft to be a star for us, but I do dispute that him hitting even 75% of the Karlsson ceiling is worth giving up two good picks and a proven 30 goal scorer to acquire. 75% of Karlsson is what, Torey Krug or Nick Leddy? I wouldn't spend that package to acquire either of those guys. #37 last year could have been Mascherin, DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen...it's not a throwaway. I'd rather have Nylander, Dahlen and Kane than have the next Torey Krug, from a value standpoint.

75% of Karlsson is a top 5 defenseman in the league.

 

[Sabreality]

I agree with Bakes, people are sleeping on Liljegren just like they did with Chychrun. That package of skill and skating is drool worthy.

yep, I absolutely swing for the fences with him at 8 if they cant find a way to get Makar/Heiskanen.

 

[Icicle]

I'm in the camp that big bodies with low IQ are exactly the players you don't spend 1st rounders on, but 2nd+. Hockey players aren't NFL running backs.

Grigorenko dropped like a rock because of low IQ and look where he ended up. Zadorov was picked for his body and 'offense' and he was riding the minors this year.

Get one of the forwards with the 1st and spend both of the 2nds on defense if there's some boom or busts there.

 

[Samsonite23]

I agree with Bakes, people are sleeping on Liljegren just like they did with Chychrun. That package of skill and skating is drool worthy.

I've always been fine with talking Liljegren. He came back early from mono this year and people freak out because he wasn't playing as well as last year.

 

[Reddawg]

75% of Karlsson is a top 5 defenseman in the league.

I don't buy that assessment. If we say that Karlsson, Burns, Keith, Hedman and Josi are the five best defensemen in the league, is Karlsson 25% better than any of them are? If we include Subban, Doughty, Shattenkirk, Suter, and OEL for a best-guess top ten, is Karlsson 25% better at his position than any of those names?

75% of Karlsson's ability, talent and production might get you a top-20 defenseman at best.

 

[Paxon]

I watch Antipin skate, stickhandle and operate in the offensive zone and quietly wonder if we already sniped another Karlsson.

He is nowhere near that good. Antipin is 2 years younger than Karlsson. If he were anywhere that good he'd have been the best player in the KHL for a few seasons running.

 

[Jame]

I'm pretty certain Mittelstadt and Tippett are going to bust, personally. I really like Makar as a prospect, but you have to be absolutely certain he's going to be a big shiny superstar before you spend #8, #37 and Evander Kane acquiring his services. If we had won a lottery spot and were picking #3 outright, then Makar is the pick all day long, of course.

I simply disagree.

I don't dispute that Makar has the best chance of any player in the draft to be a star for us, but I do dispute that him hitting even 75% of the Karlsson ceiling is worth giving up two good picks and a proven 30 goal scorer to acquire. 75% of Karlsson is what, Torey Krug or Nick Leddy? I wouldn't spend that package to acquire either of those guys. #37 last year could have been Mascherin, DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen...it's not a throwaway. I'd rather have Nylander, Dahlen and Kane than have the next Torey Krug, from a value standpoint.

I would for 5 years of Leddy ages 26 - 30. No brainer.

 

[1972]

I'm in the camp that big bodies with low IQ are exactly the players you don't spend 1st rounders on, but 2nd+. Hockey players aren't NFL running backs.

Grigorenko dropped like a rock because of low IQ and look where he ended up. Zadorov was picked for his body and 'offense' and he was riding the minors this year.

Get one of the forwards with the 1st and spend both of the 2nds on defense if there's some boom or busts there.

There are basically zero similarities between those two players and Liljegren. Grigorenko didn't drop because IQ, he dropped because he had horrible compete for level and was probably a horrendous skater, Zadorov is just a meathead.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I'm going to be disappointed if we end up drafting at #8. It's a terrible spot for us.

Totally agreed man.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm going to be disappointed if we end up drafting at #8. It's a terrible spot for us.

It won't surprise me if everyone stands pat in the top 10.

 

[1972]

No. I'm not certain at all. Far from it. But I'm willing to take that risk, because the potential to be Erik karlsson is incredibly rare.

If Botterill proposes the offer you put forward I'm almost certain he could walk away with Makar.

 

[1972]

On another note, I am glad to see Kevin Devine playing a big role in this years draft along with Jeff Crisp.

 

[Jame]

If Botterill proposes the offer you put forward I'm almost certain he could walk away with Makar.

He should do it...

 

[Jame]

On another note, I am glad to see Kevin Devine playing a big role in this years draft along with Jeff Crisp.

Why?

 

[1972]

Why?

I've always liked him for some reason, seems like a good hockey guy who kinda got kicked to the side when Murray came in. And Crisp has been a key part of Anaheims staff for like 14 years which have done a very good job drafting.

 

[Moskau]

I've always liked him for some reason, seems like a good hockey guy who kinda got kicked to the side when Murray came in. And Crisp has been a key part of Anaheims staff for like 14 years which have done a very good job drafting.

Really? Other than a good 2013 draft his drafting has been pretty atrocious.