2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

[1972]

I like Tippet or Liljgren at 8. I know the hockey IQ argument but if either one pans out than we hit the jackpot. Sometimes a chance is needed I mean we are taking one on a coach who has never been head coach on a professional level and it bothers no one so why should these picks?

or am I right in assuming the double standards on this board are ridiculous?

I like Tippett more than most, but under zero circumstances do I think he's a good pick for us at 8. Assuming one of the big 4 D are available and the top forwards are gone then that's really what we should be looking at.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I think it's less a double standard and more of a completely inapt comparison.

Why tho? It doesnt fit the narrative of the group think? It is comparing an unknown thing with another unknown thing and taking a chance on it.

 

[dotcommunism]

Why tho? It doesnt fit the narrative of the group think? It is comparing an unknown thing with another unknown thing and taking a chance on it.

Because one is people discussing which player they'd rather see drafted with the 8th pick, which hasn't happened yet, and the other is people deciding not to tear down the new coach who's just been hired on extremely flimsy grounds.

 

[1972]

Here is my ranking for the Sabres assuming Patrick/Hischier are 1/2 (not necessarily BPA)

3. Heiskanen
4. Makar
5. Vilardi
6. Glass
7. Mittelstadt
8. Liljegren
9. Valimaki
10. Pettersson

Under zero circumstances do I see us having a shot at Patrick/Hischier/Heiskanen/Makar or Vilardi.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I like Tippett more than most, but under zero circumstances do I think he's a good pick for us at 8. Assuming one of the big 4 D are available and the top forwards are gone then that's really what we should be looking at.

Yeah I was talking more in the lines of if the top defense men are gone.

Because one is people discussing which player they'd rather see drafted with the 8th pick, which hasn't happened yet, and the other is people deciding not to tear down the new coach who's just been hired on extremely flimsy grounds.

Well then I will hold out and wait and if Tippett or Liljgren are picked and if someone complains who ignored the unknowns of Housley. I will be sure to hold them to their double standards.

 

[Paxon]

Yeah I was talking more in the lines of if the top defense men are gone.

Well then I will hold out and wait and if Tippett or Liljgren are picked and if someone complains who ignored the unknowns of Housley. I will be sure to hold them to their double standards.

It's a total false equivalency. Anything you can conceive has unknown aspects. It's not even a double standard to like Tippett and not Liljgren or vice versa based on how you weigh their positives, negatives, knowns, and unknowns. It's certainly not a double standard to like Housley despite the unknowns but not, say, Tippett. You're going completely off the rails. Will there be a thread you'll participate in that won't involve some level of complaining about or criticizing Housley's hiring?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It's farking ridiculous already. Two years ago I had 758 more reasons to hate the Dufus hire, but I kept it to a minimum in a few posts, and then tried to be optimistic.

This guy here though...

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

My Top 10 (And I firmly believe in drafting BPA in the first round):

1. Nolan Patrick
2. Nico Hischier
3. Gabriel Vilardi
4. Casey Mittelstadt
5. Miro Heiskanen
6. Cody Glass
7. Cale Makar
8. Owen Tippett
9. Timothy Liljegren
10. Elias Pettersson

The only exception I have for us is if my top 7 went 1-7, I would probably go with Liljegren over Tippett, but that's really a wash for me.

 

[Sabre the Win]

It's a total false equivalency. Anything you can conceive has unknown aspects. It's not even a double standard to like Tippett and not Liljgren or vice versa based on how you weigh their positives, negatives, knowns, and unknowns. It's certainly not a double standard to like Housley despite the unknowns but not, say, Tippett. You're going completely off the rails. Will there be a thread you'll participate in that won't involve some level of complaining about or criticizing Housley's hiring?

I'm not criticizing Housley here, I am criticizing posters ideals on how they can ignore the boom or bust factor of one thing because they are in love with the idea but be vehemently opposed to drafting an unknown player that is boom or bust simply because its not their choice.

This happens all the time on this board. Its a huge double standard.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm not criticizing Housley here, I am criticizing posters ideals on how they can ignore the boom or bust factor of one thing because they are in love with the idea but be vehemently opposed to drafting an unknown player that is boom or bust simply because its not their choice.

This happens all the time on this board. Its a huge double standard.

It's a lame excuse to spread poo in threads.

 

[Paxon]

I'm not criticizing Housley here, I am criticizing posters ideals on how they can ignore the boom or bust factor of one thing because they are in love with the idea but be vehemently opposed to drafting an unknown player that is boom or bust simply because its not their choice.

This happens all the time on this board. Its a huge double standard.

Who says they're all ignoring it? Being that your term "boom and bust" covers both ends of the spectrum, you could make the argument that someone who is against something (Housley) is ignoring the unknown boom factor. Or that someone who wants to draft Tippett is ignoring the bust factor. In any case it involves assuming what people are or are not factoring into their final assessment. Those conclusions can easily be made after properly analyzing all factors as best as the person is capable of, so it is not inherently obvious that anyone is ignoring anything.

Why wouldn't someone be against drafting a player who is not their choice? What's the point of having a choice if not to say "this is the player I prefer for these reasons"? Someone could look at those players, determine that their hockey IQ's tilt the boom/bust equation completely against their favor, and prefer to draft someone else. I'm sure you can understand this just fine.

 

[dkollidas]

This Draft just seems to have a lot of defensemen that really fit Housley's idea of how to run a defense. Heiskanen/Makar/Liljegren/Valimaki/Brannstrom are all guys that move well with the puck and can be part of the attack. Some more than others yes, of course. But overall this seems like a good time for Buffalo to sit at 8 and see who falls into their lap.

 

[Ace]

Only two of those names can "fall" into their lap. The others would be reached for.

 

[LGBuffalo]

Here is my ranking for the Sabres assuming Patrick/Hischier are 1/2 (not necessarily BPA)

3. Heiskanen
4. Makar
5. Vilardi
6. Glass
7. Mittelstadt
8. Liljegren
9. Valimaki
10. Pettersson

Under zero circumstances do I see us having a shot at Patrick/Hischier/Heiskanen/Makar or Vilardi.

I like this list. Personally, I would put Pettersson up to 8 and slide Liljegren and Valimaki down one slot, but that's just a personal preference, and in no way indicative of what I think the Sabres will do.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

Put me in the camp that if Patrick, Hischier, Heiskanen, Makar, Vilardi, Glass, Mittelstadt go 1-7, I would love to trade down or trade the pick for D-man.

Of course, I'm also in the camp the camp that would love to trade up for 1 of the 2 D listed above.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Put me in the camp that if Patrick, Hischier, Heiskanen, Makar, Vilardi, Glass, Mittelstadt go 1-7, I would love to trade down or trade the pick for D-man.

Of course, I'm also in the camp the camp that would love to trade up for 1 of the 2 D listed above.

Good news, I think Big Botts has the same idea as us from what hes said about the draft so far. Hope he finds a good trade partner either way. At 8 we cant draft for need without reaching heavily which kinda sucks...

 

[Chainshot]

Mock from before the Beaulieu trade:

Cale Makar
Josh Norris
Max Gildon
David Farrance
Nate Knoepke

 

[Woodhouse]

As an aside, Noah Cates might be a kid Housley is familiar with, even if Cates came through Stillwater after Housley wrapped coaching there .. mid rounds, Omaha/USHL then UMD IIRC.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Mock from before the Beaulieu trade:

Cale Makar
Josh Norris
Max Gildon
David Farrance
Nate Knoepke

I like every pick except Knoepke. At that spot I'd rather get a goaltender if we are losing Ullmark and Petersen. But now that we don't have 68, It's probably better to draft another defenseman or forward there and push goaltending to the 4th.

 

[CaseyMitts37]

As an aside, Noah Cates might be a kid Housley is familiar with, even if Cates came through Stillwater after Housley wrapped coaching there .. mid rounds, Omaha/USHL then UMD IIRC.

He would be a nice pick, Hockey Prospect is high on him in their Black Book, have him ranked 68th

 

[Club]

My ideal Sabres mock draft

Liljegren - Just because Makar won't be available imho. Aside from being ill for most of the season, he's still dynamic and helps us out in the future on D
Ikonen - Yes, kind of a puck hog. But I think he'd be a good player in 2nd round
Lipanov - Needs to fill in his frame, but I think he'd be a good fit
DiPietro - A good 4th rounder, 30-12-2 in the regular season.

 

[Chainshot]

I like every pick except Knoepke. At that spot I'd rather get a goaltender if we are losing Ullmark and Petersen. But now that we don't have 68, It's probably better to draft another defenseman or forward there and push goaltending to the 4th.

Five goalies had already gone by 68, the sixth went at 69 (Zhukov) and the picks were set prior to the trade.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Five goalies had already gone by 68, the sixth went at 69 (Zhukov) and the picks were set prior to the trade.

Yeah I figured the picks thing. But yeah people always draft goaltenders higher than they should in fan mock drafts.

 

[flashsabre]

A lot of insiders including Bobby Mac stating that the Devils really love Makar. Wonder if they are looking to move down to 3 to grab him or say screw it and pick him at 1. That would really turn the draft on its head and this is the type of year with no run away star at the top of the draft for it to happen.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

A lot of insiders including Bobby Mac stating that the Devils really love Makar. Wonder if they are looking to move down to 3 to grab him or say screw it and pick him at 1. That would really turn the draft on its head and this is the type of year with no run away star at the top of the draft for it to happen.

I think that's just draft talk. I really can't see the Devils passing up Nico/Nolan at #1. A high end C is the most coveted player to have. Granted those 2 aren't really true franchise 1C prospects but still, can't see them passing that up. If they do want Makar they will trade back to 3-4-5. Patrick and Hischier are the consensus top 2, taking Makar at 1 is bad asset management.