Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[Todd1a]

for everyone take your damned bi polar pills already todd it will be ok

i think we are better moving forward without drouin absolutely if the rumor is true he was not a good locker mate which shows in his leaving statements etc..

IF YOU ARE NOT 100% SOLD IN IT SHOWS AND BRINGS OTHERS DOWN

IE:TODD IS 100% IN just he needs to find something some logic that will explain to him is 30 teams now 31 and only 1 wins the cup.

look at LA? 2 cups 3 years 3 years no playoffs ITS HARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

We are working towards it if you think you can do a better job then yzerman has done your a fool.

Anyway is all good sergachev is big add callan foote bigger i expect both guys to be on this team in 2018 at latest.

There is our two righty d men of the future letssssssssssss goooooooooo

Lol as always future is not the present!!! When will the future arrive!! Hang on in three years we will trade foote for a prospect So 2018 a loss for next year and rookies in the nhl the year after by then hedman is 28 and stamkos would be 29. Each year time is running out. But Robert you know I'm Tampa bay hardcore I'm just frustrated!

 

[Todd1a]

But we still can replace Drouin with a FA who is just as good as him (and maybe someone who actually wants to play with us).

lol who ??

 

[CupsOverCash]

They rushed to to protect killorn and vladdy I think . Drouins value was not going to decrease at all it may have increased by this weekend! This is a very weak fa class! Someone may have went very hard for drouin.

How would it increase? There's not a deadline to trade him. There's no playoff push in June. Trades are just not as easy as they used to be. A lot of trades were not what teams thought they would get. Also we didn't see too many trades. Sometimes the trade market sucks. I think we are better off waiting on trades in my opinion.

 

[FDfranklin]

But we still can replace Drouin with a FA who is just as good as him (and maybe someone who actually wants to play with us).

You think there's a UFA out there that can replace Drouin?

 

[Todd1a]

You think there's a UFA out there that can replace Drouin?

I'd like to know who ?

 

[T REX]

for everyone take your damned bi polar pills already todd it will be ok

i think we are better moving forward without drouin absolutely if the rumor is true he was not a good locker mate which shows in his leaving statements etc..

IF YOU ARE NOT 100% SOLD IN IT SHOWS AND BRINGS OTHERS DOWN

IE:TODD IS 100% IN just he needs to find something some logic that will explain to him is 30 teams now 31 and only 1 wins the cup.

look at LA? 2 cups 3 years 3 years no playoffs ITS HARDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

We are working towards it if you think you can do a better job then yzerman has done your a fool.

Anyway is all good sergachev is big add callan foote bigger i expect both guys to be on this team in 2018 at latest.

There is our two righty d men of the future letssssssssssss goooooooooo

Who said they could do any better than Stevie Y? You sound like a drama queen. Calm down. There's nothing wrong with sharing opinions on a message board. You wanna hold hands and sing kumbaya together? I hate it when posters try to tell others how to post. I don't think anyone said FIRE YZERMAN, did they? I don't think anyone gave up their lightning allegiance either. Too many fragile posters that can't handle a little VALID criticism.

 

[Rschmitz]

How would it increase? There's not a deadline to trade him. There's no playoff push in June. Trades are just not as easy as they used to be. A lot of trades were not what teams thought they would get. Also we didn't see too many trades. Sometimes the trade market sucks. I think we are better off waiting on trades in my opinion.

In theory, there are some teams that might not be able to fill holes via free agency which they were hoping to fill. Those teams will be more willing to deal prospects then.

Yzerman probably just thought this was the best deal he was going to get for him, Montreal was hesitant to deal Sergachev for a while.

I wish Yzerman was able to pry away LA's 1st in the Bishop deal. Gawd I wanted Vilardi so bad.

 

[DFC]

Dfc and Ronnie gets what I'm talking about on this board! It's frustrating that yzerman can't finish off this process at this point. Looking back I think he rushed the drouin trade for no reason at all.

Don't count me in on that. I think you're overreacting majorly.

Overall, I think we're heading in the right direction. When I critique one or two problems I have with what seems to be (but might not be) the philosophy of management, it doesn't mean I think management isn't doing a good job overall. I think we (you, especially, todd ) fall too easily into either the "the sky is falling" camp or the "everything management does is awesome" camp, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[Todd1a]

Who said they could do any better than Stevie Y? You sound like a drama queen. Calm down. There's nothing wrong with sharing opinions on a message board. You wanna hold hands and sing kumbaya together? I hate it when posters try to tell others how to post. I don't think anyone said FIRE YZERMAN, did they? I don't think anyone gave up their lightning allegiance either. Too many fragile posters that can't handle a little VALID criticism.

Yes this I never said fire yzerman or he is doing terrible! I stated he rebuilt this franchise awesome from the ground out! But it seems he can't finish the job at this point. It's time for the final push to get the job done it's here now! It was not time to trade drouin for a prospect.

 

[DFC]

We traded a 1st and Gudas for Coburn
Several picks for Lindback
Bukeboom and a third for Brewer
2nd for Garrison

We've traded picks, but not prospects. The last prospect we dealt for an NHL player, or even as part of a deal for an NHL player, was Conacher in the Bishop deal.

Most deals for significant players, these days, seem to have a prospect or two going the other way. And our prospects tend to over-achieve in the years after they're drafted, which should bump up their value over non-1st round pick.

Management might have no problem whatsoever with dealing prospects for NHL players. But it's been four years since we've seen it, and we could have used some help in a couple of those years.

 

[Todd1a]

Don't count me in on that. I think you're overreacting majorly.

Overall, I think we're heading in the right direction. When I critique one or two problems I have with what seems to be (but might not be) the philosophy of management, it doesn't mean I think management isn't doing a good job overall. I think we (you, especially, todd ) fall too easily into either the "the sky is falling" camp or the "everything management does is awesome" camp, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Probably I overreact but to say this offseason has been good would be a big lie on my part. The d prospect man work out great! But trading drouin was a high price for him. Maybe next satellite will change my mind and then again maybe it won't. But my opinion is this club is worse then the 94 point club from last year.

 

[Todd1a]

We've traded picks, but not prospects. The last prospect we dealt for an NHL player, or even as part of a deal for an NHL player, was Conacher in the Bishop deal.

Most deals for significant players, these days, seem to have a prospect or two going the other way.

I think we sold low on deangelo last year for a 2nd rounder could have packaged him for something better.

 

[DFC]

Probably I overreact but to say this offseason has been good would be a big lie on my part. The d prospect man work out great! But trading drouin was a high price for him. Maybe next satellite will change my mind and then again maybe it won't. But my opinion is this club is worse then the 94 point club from last year.

The off-season is a work in progress. I'm not happy about the Drouin trade either, but you're saying the sky is falling when we haven't even made it to July 1 yet. Yzerman has to fill a lot of roster holes with bodies. Let's at least see who those bodies are before we crucify him.

 

[Rschmitz]

We've traded picks, but not prospects. The last prospect we dealt for an NHL player, or even as part of a deal for an NHL player, was Conacher in the Bishop deal.

Most deals for significant players, these days, seem to have a prospect or two going the other way.

Does the distinction between a pick or prospect change the point you are trying to make?

 

[DFC]

I think we sold low on deangelo last year for a 2nd rounder could have packaged him for something better.

Tough to say. I think word has been out for a while on what a headcase the kid is. It's not like we were privately scratching him from AHL games. Any team who did a little bit of homework would have seen all the same red flags we were seeing.

 

[DFC]

Does the distinction between a pick or prospect change the point you are trying to make?

Yeah. Prospects, especially ours, tend to become more valuable after we pick them and put a year or two into developing them. Raddysh, Joseph, Cirelli, and maybe even Stephens are all more valuable than their pick was.

And it's been four years since we've included a prospect in a deal for an NHL player. I'm just concerned that management over-values these guys, because all we can see is how good they "might" be if they reach their ceiling, when the majority of them never will. And then the value diminishes.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah. Prospects, especially ours, tend to become more valuable after we pick them and put a year or two into developing them. Raddysh, Joseph, Cirelli, and maybe even Stephens are all more valuable than their pick was.

And it's been four years since we've included a prospect in a deal for an NHL player. I'm just concerned that management over-values these guys, because all we can see is how good they "might" be if they reach their ceiling, when the majority of them never will. And then the value diminishes.

So what you are saying is that he overvalues our prospects. I guess, but isn't that true for most GM's though when team building? Trading prospects younger than 20 use to never happen. You see it a bit more frequently now like the Crouse deal, but they are still rare as hens teeth, other GM's want picks or young NHL talent.

 

[DFC]

So what you are saying is that he overvalues our prospects. I guess, but isn't that true for most GM's though when team building? Trading prospects younger than 20 use to never happen. You see it a bit more frequently now like the Crouse deal, but they are still rare as hens teeth, other GM's want picks or young NHL talent.

I'd walk that back to say "I suspect" he over-values prospects. I'm not convinced of it. (It might be a pure coincidence that we've hoarded prospects and only ever traded them for yet more prospects.) But when you look at the bigger deals in the NHL in the years since we stopped trading prospects, there's usually a prospect or two involved from the "buying" team.

I guess, I don't agree at all with the "all in" philosophy. I don't think teams should blow up the future for a single year. But I also don't like the "all out" philosophy of never acquiring rentals, and rarely, if ever, making trades that aren't straight up "hockey trades."

 

[Todd1a]

So what you are saying is that he overvalues our prospects. I guess, but isn't that true for most GM's though when team building? Trading prospects younger than 20 use to never happen. You see it a bit more frequently now like the Crouse deal, but they are still rare as hens teeth, other GM's want picks or young NHL talent.

Oh man I don't want to be like leaf fans and overvalue prospects!! Lol and habs fans do it to! I just love there trade proposals lol

 

[Todd1a]

I'd walk that back to say "I suspect" he over-values prospects. I'm not convinced of it. (It might be a pure coincidence that we've hoarded prospects and only ever traded them for yet more prospects.) But when you look at the bigger deals in the NHL in the years since we stopped trading prospects, there's usually a prospect or two involved from the "buying" team.

I guess, I don't agree at all with the "all in" philosophy. I don't think teams should blow up the future for a single year. But I also don't like the "all out" philosophy of never acquiring rentals, and rarely, if ever, making trades that aren't straight up "hockey trades."

I get where your coming from dude. I'm for the all in philosophy for a window and to me we are at that window. But yes I definitely can see your point you want the middle and yes I feel to we are always in the all out philosophy for sure. 1. Yzerman has stated he hates trading for rentals just won't do it! I think that has to change. 2. Consider trading your own first rounder once in a while for help now! Not saying do it every year like the rangers lol! But get a little more aggressive sometimes yzerman dang. Don't give me we'll we traded a first for coburn! That was a extra first from the Marty St. Louis deal.

 

[MattM92]

Until Drouin proves otherwise, he is a 26 5v5 point PP specialist. The biggest impact of his loss will be felt on the PP. A 25-30 point winger could be had for cheap.

 

[Leonardo87]

This place kinda got quiet, anyway FYI...

 

[CupsOverCash]

Hjalmarsson is a guy I would have liked but he is 30. I think SY is wanting to trade for younger guys. Plus I don't think we could have topped AZs offer. Chicago got younger.

Panarin is another guy I would have liked but I think Columbus had an advantage there with Saad. He was very popular in Chicago and on the team.

Who else are we going to trade for? Hamonic? Wanted to be close to his mom.

Duchene? We don't need a center and who would we trade for him?

Galchenyuk? Really?

I just don't see a trade available right now that works. I think we will make a trade after we see what happens after FA at the earliest. More likely to happen at the trade deadline.

Speaking of FA, I can't wait to see who we target.

 

[The Macho King]

I still think Scandella is likely a target. He's the only D reportedly on the market that I think is a fit.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Columbus going "All in" on Kovalchuk.

Good for Torts. They know to strike while the irons hot.