Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[Todd1a]

Joe Smith reporting the Lightning are in on Shattenkirk. Not surprising

Omg please let that not be the reason for clearing cap this will be a mistake

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

Joe smith saying we are kicking the tires on shattenkirk

Yeah. Do. Not. Want. He's going to be hugely expensive and we're finally out of cap hell.

 

[DFC]

We're reaching out to Shattenkirk. I still think a lefty to play with Stralman would be ideal, but if we went with...

Hedman - Dotchin
Koekkoek - Stralman
Coburn - Shattenkirk
Sustr

...we could flatten the icetime a bit and have a puckmover and a D-first guy on all three pairings. I'm just hoping we don't offer Shattenkirk the moon.

 

[DFC]

He's just guessing. #fingerscrossed

Probably got it from a larger media outlet.

Anyway, who here is going to be attending some development camp stuff? This is probably the time of year when I get most jealous of all you TB dwellers, which is strange, considering... you know, winter.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

We're reaching out to Shattenkirk. I still think a lefty to play with Stralman would be ideal, but if we went with...

Hedman - Dotchin
Koekkoek - Stralman
Coburn - Shattenkirk
Sustr

...we could flatten the icetime a bit and have a puckmover and a D-first guy on all three pairings. I'm just hoping we don't offer Shattenkirk the moon.

Doubt Shattenkirk would be happy being on the third pairing or even a second pairing. This is his big payday and I think he wants to be the #1D/Hedman for whatever team bids highest. IMHO, of course.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

Probably got it from a larger media outlet.

Anyway, who here is going to be attending some development camp stuff? This is probably the time of year when I get most jealous of all you TB dwellers, which is strange, considering... you know, winter.

Since I'm a teacher, I'm off for the summer and development camp happens before I leave for a conference in July so I'm going to be there a good bit.

 

[DFC]

Doubt Shattenkirk would be happy being on the third pairing or even a second pairing. This is his big payday and I think he wants to be the #1D/Hedman for whatever team bids highest. IMHO, of course.

That's what I mean about flattening the icetime, which Cooper has been known to do when he has the tools (or when he's ****ing with Hedman). In that set-up, the second and third pairings are interchangeable.

I'd rather not play Shattenkirk with Hedman. Feels like Hedman would fall into a babysitting role, if only a little bit, and a little bit is too much. When he plays with Dotchin, he can play his A game. Or at least that's how he played last year with Dotchin. I want a full year of two-way Hedmonster. We're a hard team to beat when he takes over games.

If one of Shattenkirk's demands is top pair billing, he's probably a bad fit with Coop anyway.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Are you saying Sergachev and Foote are both better than Koekkoek and Dotchin? I can give you Sergachev as he has all the tools, just needs to match those against NHL speed which he didn't do in his 4 games last year. Foote has a ways to go, his skating is not nearly good enough. His lateral movement needs work as well as his first step, it's probably similar to Dotchin but not close to Koekkoek. Koekkoek has a better shot, first pass and instincts. His Calder cup run was great, if he can bring that play to the NHL next year there's no way he's not in the lineup every night.

yes both are better then koekkoek and dotchin in ways

foote has to work on skating is his knock.... he is always in good position though and his first pass per my scouting is very good to exceptional both have bodies to play in nhl TODAY sergachev question will be on d side which he needs to work a bit.... foote's question mark will be skating and shooting but per my scouting reports ive talked to on the kid he flat out right now can play today in nhl shut down d. He hardly ever is out of position per my scouts i talked to they said he is exceptional in being in place etc.. His hockey smarts and hockey IQ is top level.

I love slater in past have let everyone know that yet you need a mixture and these two boys just have it

none dotchin koekkoek sergachev and foote and even throw masin in the mix is perfect all bring different things but all have ability to play in nhl.

Someone put foote down as a 4-6 d man in future to me thats a laugh if stevie picked him 14th the kids is the goods just my two cents...

slater will be huge rushing the puck cause his speed might be as good if not better then hedmans which is saying something. Dotchin proved serviceable. Sergachev loves to rush the puck up etc.. and is pretty decent at it but other parts of game can use work. Yet for any d man under 25 these are the case

What I am saying is talked to a bunch of chl people etc.. they say foote and sergachev can play now. Thats good for me. I figure both get sent down cause cooper will not want to deal with so much uncertainty even when they have great talent.

Cooper gets away with it this year next year both are in nhl at some point full time.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

That's what I mean about flattening the icetime, which Cooper has been known to do when he has the tools (or when he's ****ing with Hedman). In that set-up, the second and third pairings are interchangeable.

I'd rather not play Shattenkirk with Hedman. Feels like Hedman would fall into a babysitting role, if only a little bit, and a little bit is too much. When he plays with Dotchin, he can play his A game. Or at least that's how he played last year with Dotchin. I want a full year of two-way Hedmonster. We're a hard team to beat when he takes over games.

If one of Shattenkirk's demands is top pair billing, he's probably a bad fit with Coop anyway.

ya you want hedman with the shutdown dotchin shatty with stralman if stral will stay at home if got shattenkirk which i personally think would be a mistake at this point

i just think its time to give the kids just like weve done on offense their shot stand up prove it

if they dont we can do a trade later in year. Is no ufa's im jumping up and down for joy on lol

wouldnt mind trade for right piece of course just not happy with ufa's or thinking shattenkirk is the solution after watching him in ny

 

[DFC]

ya you want hedman with the shutdown dotchin shatty with stralman if stral will stay at home if got shattenkirk which i personally think would be a mistake at this point

i just think its time to give the kids just like weve done on offense their shot stand up prove it

if they dont we can do a trade later in year. Is no ufa's im jumping up and down for joy on lol

wouldnt mind trade for right piece of course just not happy with ufa's or thinking shattenkirk is the solution after watching him in ny

I don't think we'd play Shattenkirk with Stralman, given the L/R thing we've always been looking for. Coburn has a history of playing either side, so he's a little exempt.

But I think it would either end up the pairings posted above, or we'd put Hedman/Dotchin in Coop's back pocket (like he often does with TKO) and we'd see something more like:

Hedman - Stralman
Coburn - Shattenkirk
Koekkoek - Dotchin
Sustr

Either way, I feel like if we were to acquire Shattenkirk, he's not escaping Coburn. At least not at first.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

ya you want hedman with the shutdown dotchin shatty with stralman if stral will stay at home if got shattenkirk which i personally think would be a mistake at this point

i just think its time to give the kids just like weve done on offense their shot stand up prove it

if they dont we can do a trade later in year. Is no ufa's im jumping up and down for joy on lol

wouldnt mind trade for right piece of course just not happy with ufa's or thinking shattenkirk is the solution after watching him in ny

Since Shattenkirk and Stråls are both righties, I doubt Coop would put them together.

Think if we got Shattenkirk that would knock Dotchin down, possibly to third. Not sure what would happen then if Foote ends up being ready for the NHL.

 

[DFC]

Since **** and Stråls are both righties, I doubt Coop would put them together.

Think if we got **** that would knock Dotchin down, possibly to third. Not sure what would happen then if Foote ends up being ready for the NHL.

There's no way Foote makes the team this year. Looks like a 21 or 22 year-old rookie, in our organization at least. (This is also why I think it's next to impossible, but not quite impossible, for Serg to make our team next year.) The last teenager we played was Drouin, and Coop seemed to be doing that only because he was forced to. The one before, was... Connolly, maybe? And those were both forwards.

But yeah, Dotchin could end up getting knocked down to third. I hope we don't go that route, just because a player like Stralman vs. lesser competition is a luxury few teams have. Dotchin/Hedman is the thing that allows us that luxury, so I hope we stick with it until it stops working.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I actually think Shattenkirk would be ok on Hedmans right.

 

[T REX]

Say no to Shattenkirk. He was god awful in the playoffs. Last year with STL he was a -8 and this year a -4. -15 for his career. Overrated stat? Maybe. He's not a gamer come playoff time.

Pass...pass...pass.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Saying Hedman will have to babysit Shattenkirk is a bit hyperbolic.

He's not a bad defender. That's rediculous. It's just not the strongest part of his game. His offensive acumen is just way better.

 

[DFC]

I actually think Shattenkirk would be ok on Hedmans right.

He'd be fine. I'm just not sure Hedman would be as good as he is with Dotchin. We've tried Hedman with a lot of partners, but he only seems to be at his very best with either Dotchin or Stralman, when Stralman is really "on."

I think they'd be most effective if separated. It would give us a major puckmover on (at least) two different pairings, which, hopefully, would solve a lot of the issues we ran into last year. I wouldn't mind playing them together occasionally, especially if we need a goal, but I think in general there's only so much puck to go around, so I'd like to see us be dangerous all the time, rather than really dangerous in short spurts.

 

[Todd1a]

I actually think Shattenkirk would be ok on Hedmans right.

I agree with you but we can't afford him and extend kucherov in two years

 

[DFC]

Saying Hedman will have to babysit Shattenkirk is a bit hyperbolic.

He's not a bad defender. That's rediculous. It's just not the strongest part of his game. His offensive acumen is just way better.

What I actually said was, "if only a little bit."

Paired with Hedman, he'd be playing against top line forwards while paired with a partner who needs to rush the puck. I feel like it's kind of wasting him if he's constantly covering for Hedman, and Hedman shouldn't be covering for anyone.

 

[Todd1a]

ya you want hedman with the shutdown dotchin shatty with stralman if stral will stay at home if got shattenkirk which i personally think would be a mistake at this point

i just think its time to give the kids just like weve done on offense their shot stand up prove it

if they dont we can do a trade later in year. Is no ufa's im jumping up and down for joy on lol

wouldnt mind trade for right piece of course just not happy with ufa's or thinking shattenkirk is the solution after watching him in ny

I totally agree I'd give the kids a shot at this point I love shattenkirk but he is going to cost way to much and want to much term. I think in fa find a bottom 6 d vet and get Boyle. Maybe if the price is right get a second forward in fa for the 3rd or 4th line.

 

[Todd1a]

There's no way Foote makes the team this year. Looks like a 21 or 22 year-old rookie, in our organization at least. (This is also why I think it's next to impossible, but not quite impossible, for Serg to make our team next year.) The last teenager we played was Drouin, and Coop seemed to be doing that only because he was forced to. The one before, was... Connolly, maybe? And those were both forwards.

But yeah, Dotchin could end up getting knocked down to third. I hope we don't go that route, just because a player like Stralman vs. lesser competition is a luxury few teams have. Dotchin/Hedman is the thing that allows us that luxury, so I hope we stick with it until it stops working.

I think sergachev has a good chance to make our team next year if we don't make a trade for a defenseman or sign one in fa.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

What I actually said was, "if only a little bit."

Paired with Hedman, he'd be playing against top line forwards while paired with a partner who needs to rush the puck. I feel like it's kind of wasting him if he's constantly covering for Hedman, and Hedman shouldn't be covering for anyone.

I do agree that we should have a puck mover on all lines - so I would do:

Hedman - Stralman
Coburn - Shattenkirk
Serge/Koek - Dotchin

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Btw...we can absolutely HATE the term or cash...

but...

Shattenkirk makes our defense better in every way and is exactly what we need in transition and the PP.

 

[Todd1a]

Btw...we can absolutely HATE the term or cash...

but...

Shattenkirk makes our defense better in every way and is exactly what we need in transition and the PP.

Agree for sure he makes us better next season but at what cost ? If you bring in shattenkirk next year does it really make us a legit cup contender right away ?

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Agree for sure he makes us better next season but at what cost ? If you bring in shattenkirk next year does it really make us a legit cup contender right away ?

With an additional winger, yes.

Also, dude is on the better side of 30, so he's not old.

 

[DFC]

Agree for sure he makes us better next season but at what cost ? If you bring in shattenkirk next year does it really make us a legit cup contender right away ?

IMO, if Koekkoek progresses OR Coburn returns to form, and Johnson, Palat, and Stamkos stay healthy (and motivated), then yeah, probably. But that goes for anybody we add. We need our core to bring its A game and stay (mostly) healthy, or it won't matter.

With Kucherov and Hedman, we have arguably two of the top 20 (15?) players in the league, and Stamkos could return to that group if he's at 100%. We can contend with this team, if we add to it. The supporting cast just needs to show up.