Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[TampaJay]

We have cap space so we need a new shiny toy as soon as we have it? You guys are like a little kid with ten dollars. I would rather walk through the season with 7 million free in cap space than give it to shattenkirk. Just because we have bait doesn't mean we should go fishing on the worst day of the year.

Exactly

 

[Todd1a]

We have cap space so we need a new shiny toy as soon as we have it? You guys are like a little kid with ten dollars. I would rather walk through the season with 7 million free in cap space than give it to shattenkirk. Just because we have bait doesn't mean we should go fishing on the worst day of the year.

Exactly

We all can have a opinion but in the end we all know yzerman is going to do what he wants.

 

[DFC]

People are jumping the gun and not allowing the guy to try and return from injury. I just think it's a little inconsiderate given the situation. After next year, if he does not have anything remotely in the middle of his 1st and 2nd season production wise. Then thats that, won't have to worry about me anymore making these posts. Lol.

As per Killorn, 6 years is tough, if he regresses too much when he hits 30 yo, then can see it being an even worse situation than Callahan's.

You're expecting people to give Callahan then benefit of the doubt while you are not giving those people the benefit of the same doubt. When a player underperforms at the level Callahan has underperformed, for as long as Callahan has underperfromed, injuries or not, people are going to call the contract an anchor.

We're all hoping he rebounds. But, at this point, it's at least as likely that he won't, and it's not unreasonable for people to assume we're just going to see more of the same.

My fear with Killorn is his speed is average. When he eventually loses a step, I'm not sure his smart, poor man's jack of all trades game will hold up.

 

[Leonardo87]

You're expecting people to give Callahan then benefit of the doubt while you are not giving those people the benefit of the same doubt. When a player underperforms at the level Callahan has underperformed, for as long as Callahan has underperfromed, injuries or not, people are going to call the contract an anchor.

My biggest question, and I am just curious what he needs to do, to rectify the situation? Of course everyone is going to have their own opinion on that.

 

[DFC]

My biggest question, and I am just curious what he needs to do, to rectify the situation? Of course everyone is going to have their own opinion on that.

Pretty much what Filppula did at the beginning of last year. He played a lot better, and for long stretches was one of our best players.

He has to contribute in a positive way, and be better than the fringe NHLers on the team. He hasn't been all that much better than those guys for a long time, which has sparked the criticism.

I mean, the only guy hoping Callahan rebounds more than you is Steve Yzerman. Because it's his bad contract.

But I mean, if Callahan comes out and puts up > 40 points while contributing on the PK, a lot of the criticism will die down. It can't be a thing where he has one good game out of every dozen. He has to find a way to be one of the better players on the team, or fans are going to wish that money was being spent on someone who is.

You can't be the 3rd highest paid player while being, roughly, the 3rd worst contributor, and not get your share of criticism. It's more about the contract than Cally himself.

 

[Todd1a]

This is what kinda drives me crazy with yzerman if you go after shattenkirk then it's time to go all in. But so far we have went all out getting a prospect this offseason? So are we in or out yzerman?https://www.instagram.com/p/BVyZwGLBiFY/

 

[Leonardo87]

Pretty much what Filppula did at the beginning of last year. He played a lot better, and for long stretches was one of our best players.

He has to contribute in a positive way, and be better than the fringe NHLers on the team. He hasn't been all that much better than those guys for a long time, which has sparked the criticism.

I mean, the only guy hoping Callahan rebounds more than you is Steve Yzerman. Because it's his bad contract.

But I mean, if Callahan comes out and puts up > 40 points while contributing on the PK, a lot of the criticism will die down. It can't be a thing where he has one good game out of every dozen. He has to find a way to be one of the better players on the team, or fans are going to wish that money was being spent on someone who is.

You can't be the 3rd highest paid player while being, roughly, the 3rd worst contributor, and not get your share of criticism. It's more about the contract than Cally himself.

You def hit the nail on the head. I am sure he still has plenty of fire left, and hopeful he can find that fire again. Just have to wait and see. I just want to add, that with all this cap space available his contact is not a concern right now, and I think Yzerman wants to salvage what he can, and give him a chance to come back, because it was his contract like you said.

 

[CupsOverCash]

This is what kinda drives me crazy with yzerman if you go after shattenkirk then it's time to go all in. But so far we have went all out getting a prospect this offseason? So are we in or out yzerman?https://www.instagram.com/p/BVyZwGLBiFY/

The way I see Yzerman run this team is all about timing. When I say timing that doesn't mean go all in when our players are in their prime. When I say timing I mean it's all about being proactive when opportunities arrive to be proactive. He doesn't just make a move because he feels pressured to make a move. He does when he feels it makes sense.

I think Yzerman would go all in if the opportunity to go all in presented itself but at the same time was sure it was the right move to make. I don't think he's really thought this is a time to go all in. I also don't think the opportunity to go all in has presented itself. I think he will cast out some interest in Shattenkirk and will see if the interest is mutual. If it is then he's got a little more reason to be more aggressive.

I know a lot of people here don't want to sign Shattenkirk and I understand that (I don't want to overpay for him either) but I actually think he makes us a better team. I think the way he plays is exactly what Yzerman is looking for to fit in with our D. Perfect for our PP. I wouldn't be upset if we signed him. But also would not be upset if he doesn't. It will be interesting to see what happens in FA. I expect an aggressive Yzerman but again for moves that make sense. I think Shattenkirk makes sense.

 

[DFC]

You def hit the nail on the head. I am sure he still has plenty of fire left, and hopeful he can find that fire again. Just have to wait and see. I just want to add, that with all this cap space available his contact is not a concern right now, and I think Yzerman wants to salvage what he can, and give him a chance to come back, because it was his contract like you said.

You have to look at it a different way. First and foremost, if this really is the beginning of the end for Callahan, nobody's going to remember these years anyway. The end, for the vast majority of players, isn't pretty, but when they're remembered, it's always about the glory days.

Secondly, since you've mentioned a lot how your loyalty to Callahan is more about him as a person than a player, you have to realize: Callahan, as a person, made an incredible deal for himself, and he made it at exactly the right time. He stuck to his guns on financial security to protect himself in exactly this scenario. Imagine if he'd signed a three year deal rather than six. Forget the hockey part, but just him as a person. He got the deal he needed, and his family is set for life because it. So we can say whatever we want about what we think about the TB Lightning and whatnot. We're fans pretty much just enjoying a hobby, and the fact that we have this silly little fascination with 12 grown men whacking frozen rubber around with sticks allows guys like Ryan Callahan to never have to worry about money or working 9-to-5. Callahan, the person, won big here. His situation is exactly why players want term. It sucks for the team (thus all the griping), but it's great for Callahan the person. From a financial standpoint, he got the most possible out of his hockey career because he got Steve Yzerman to sign what turned out to be a bad contract for the TB Lightning. This is exactly why you don't see players going from huge one year deals to the next. Callahan protected himself against the situation he's currently in. Good for him.

 

[DFC]

The more I look into this Kovalchuk stuff, the more I wonder if it actually might make a lot of sense for us. Seems like he's going to sign short term, mid-range $. Kind of exactly what we're looking for, isn't it?

I don't want to go back down the rabbit hole on the prospect stuff, but I feel like this is a guy we could give up some futures for, given our current situation.

 

[Rschmitz]

Some of you all confuse me. Do you just not want Yzerman to make a big splash, or do you feel that he isn't going to? Because all the evidence points to him being a major player the first week of July, with Shattenkirk as a main target. Whether we want him to or not, best to accept it.

Also, can we please drop the notion that we can't use cap space because we have to pay Kucherov? I keep seeing this brought up. We can't pay him, not yet.....Stralman and Coburn come off the books when Kucherov and Point are due raises. Callahan comes off the books the following season when Vasi is due a raise. We are good.

No. If I'm Kucherov, I'd be pissed if I took a team friendly deal and then watched Yzerman dump half the team and not use the cap space.

It wouldn't surprise me to see multiple mega moves between now and July 8th.

 

[Rschmitz]

The more I look into this Kovalchuk stuff, the more I wonder if it actually might make a lot of sense for us. Seems like he's going to sign short term, mid-range $. Kind of exactly what we're looking for, isn't it?

I don't want to go back down the rabbit hole on the prospect stuff, but I feel like this is a guy we could give up some futures for, given our current situation.

Absolutely someone I hope is being targeted and would make sense for Yzerman to go after.

It was rumored that New Jersey was interested in Killorn last year, I wonder if they'd still want him. Killorn was a hot name being brought up earlier this month, no teams were named but I wonder if NJ is still interested.

 

[DFC]

Some of you all confuse me. Do you just not want Yzerman to make a big splash, or do you feel that he isn't going to? Because all the evidence points to him being a major player the first week of July, with Shattenkirk as a main target. Whether we want him to or not, best to accept it.

Also, can we please drop the notion that we can't use cap space because we have to pay Kucherov? I keep seeing this brought up. We can't pay him, not yet.....Stralman and Coburn come off the books when Kucherov and Point are due raises. Callahan comes off the books the following season when Vasi is due a raise. We are good.

No. If I'm Kucherov, I'd be pissed if I took a team friendly deal and then watched Yzerman dump half the team and not use the cap space.

It wouldn't surprise me to see multiple mega moves between now and July 8th.

Agreed.

I think everyone's expecting Yzerman to be among the most active GMs, which is maybe making us nervous.

But the Kucherov contract makes me wonder why we wouldn't be in on a guy like Kovalchuk or Marleau, since that money, as well, would be coming off the books when it's time to load the dumptruck to drive to Kuch's house. (I don't think I'd want either at more than a two year deal. I feel like that'd be fine for Marleau, but might not work for Kovalchuk.)

Bob McKenzie reported Kovalchuk to the Panthers might work, so he's probably okay with TB geographically, at least.

 

[DFC]

Absolutely someone I hope is being targeted and would make sense for Yzerman to go after.

It was rumored that New Jersey was interested in Killorn last year, I wonder if they'd still want him. Killorn was a hot name being brought up earlier this month, no teams were named but I wonder if NJ is still interested.

I was thinking the same thing on Killorn. Would certainly make the money easy to digest. And he has NJ Devil written all over him, stylistically.

We'd have to add a significant piece or two, I think. But it definitely seems like he fills a need, and we're a team who could make a pretty enticing offer to NJ without it hurting too too much.

 

[Rschmitz]

Just as you said, I think Marleau makes the most sense on an amicable short term deal. I don't think Yzerman necessarily needs to restrict his contract terms to 2 years though. I think there is enough space there to make ends meet till Callahan's+Carle's contract comes off, worst case scenario we might have to trade Namestnikov in order to re-sign Point but I doubt that. Sergachev, Foote, Dotchin, and Koekkoek should all be making around a million, Condra comes off the books, and the cap probably goes up.

 

[Todd1a]

It's a gamble to pay shattenkirk!! But I think he goes to the rangers anyway! But I just don't know don't want to be in a cap nightmare!!we don't even know what the palat and Johnson contracts will be yet? Would I love shattenkirk on this team yes! But I don't think it will happen. Tampa never gets the top free agent I think we settle for Michael stone.

 

[HoseEmDown]

It's a gamble to pay shattenkirk!! But I think he goes to the rangers anyway! But I just don't know don't want to be in a cap nightmare!!we don't even know what the palat and Johnson contracts will be yet? Would I love shattenkirk on this team yes! But I don't think it will happen. Tampa never gets the top free agent I think we settle for Michael stone.

I like Stone but why? He's too similar to Dotchin and Sustr, we need something different on the right side. Which is where Shattenkirk comes in. If we trade Sustr and can get Stone on a short cheap deal until Cernak, Thomas or Spencer are ready than I can see it but he probably wants what Russell got if not more and I don't think 4 x 4 is worth it for him. Rather do Shattenkirk at 7 x7 than that.

 

[Todd1a]

I like Stone but why? He's too similar to Dotchin and Sustr, we need something different on the right side. Which is where Shattenkirk comes in. If we trade Sustr and can get Stone on a short cheap deal until Cernak, Thomas or Spencer are ready than I can see it but he probably wants what Russell got if not more and I don't think 4 x 4 is worth it for him. Rather do Shattenkirk at 7 x7 than that.

I'm shocked you are for paying shattenkirk 7x7 after watching his playoff performance?

 

[Rschmitz]

I'm shocked you are for paying shattenkirk 7x7 after watching his playoff performance?

I don't think Hose is necessarily saying that. It's just better to overpay for a need than to overpay unnecessarily.

 

[Iceman]

I like Shattenkirk a lot but I never like 7 year deals unless the player is called Victor Hedman and Nikita Kucherov (in the future).

Stevie reaching out to him AGAIN scares me. He needs to outbid Rangers' offer. The only positive thing is that we didn't trade Drouin for him and instead might get him as an UFA.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

If he can't skate that great how is he better than either? He doesn't have enough skills yet to make up for his skating. He can make a good first pass and his gap control is fine but he will get burnt along the boards by forwards and he's not incredibly strong so will lose many board battles. He's two years out at best. Blujus or Thomas are much closer than him to being ready as they have good enough skating.

you and i know if you cannot find flaws in a kids game the thing is we question his skating hose. I didnt think i need to spell that out.

We will find out just how he skates I would say being in rinks his whole life hes probably beyond fine and is more of the growth spurt getting up to more speed which should come.

My two cents I love this pick the more I talked to others in the know the more I looked up etc..

Koekkoek had a shot at top four dotchin argue wise is cause plays well with hedmonster

yet both are gonna fall behind these guys rather quickly sergachev and foote in some ways foote will be ahead of sergachev bank it

both will move ahead of dotchin and koekkoek... i love koekoek i said masin passes him in time cause he brings that stuff the intangibles of a full game etc.. shut down etcc..... that is what foote already excels at

blujus and thomas? trade bait doubt they ever see a month of ice in tampa at this point

elite destroys perception kucherov point etc.. we got two more they just are on defense its coming

 

[MattM92]

The more I look at his numbers, the more I want Shattenkirk. He is among the best in the league the last 5 years in nearly every category. Even defensively he isn't that bad. He has better shot suppression numbers than Erik Karlsson and Victor Hedman. Just go to nhl.com and look at defenseman stats from 2010-11 through 2016-17 (sum results over timeframe and add a games played filter of >= 300). He is in the top 10-20 in just about every statistical category.

I don't think 7 mil is unfair for him on the open market, I just don't want 7 years. If we can do 4 years 7 million then we are instantly sporting one of the best best defenses in the league.

Edit: Here is the link to the stats from nhl.com. Filters already added.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

You know who else made us better after his deal was signed? Callahan. Now we are stuck with an anchor of a contract. We are just getting out of our bad contracts, why go out and do it again? It is the literal definition of insanity. I would much rather run the current guys we have than sign shatty. We will all regret it, no matter how you try to rationalize it right now.

Anchor? How much more cap space do you want? God I hope and pray that he bounces back and silences his critics.

People are jumping the gun and not allowing the guy to try and return from injury. I just think it's a little inconsiderate given the situation. After next year, if he does not have anything remotely in the middle of his 1st and 2nd season production wise. Then thats that, won't have to worry about me anymore making these posts. Lol.

As per Killorn, 6 years is tough, if he regresses too much when he hits 30 yo, then can see it being an even worse situation than Callahan's.

You're expecting people to give Callahan then benefit of the doubt while you are not giving those people the benefit of the same doubt. When a player underperforms at the level Callahan has underperformed, for as long as Callahan has underperfromed, injuries or not, people are going to call the contract an anchor.

We're all hoping he rebounds. But, at this point, it's at least as likely that he won't, and it's not unreasonable for people to assume we're just going to see more of the same.

My fear with Killorn is his speed is average. When he eventually loses a step, I'm not sure his smart, poor man's jack of all trades game will hold up.

My biggest question, and I am just curious what he needs to do, to rectify the situation? Of course everyone is going to have their own opinion on that.

Pretty much what Filppula did at the beginning of last year. He played a lot better, and for long stretches was one of our best players.

He has to contribute in a positive way, and be better than the fringe NHLers on the team. He hasn't been all that much better than those guys for a long time, which has sparked the criticism.

I mean, the only guy hoping Callahan rebounds more than you is Steve Yzerman. Because it's his bad contract.

But I mean, if Callahan comes out and puts up > 40 points while contributing on the PK, a lot of the criticism will die down. It can't be a thing where he has one good game out of every dozen. He has to find a way to be one of the better players on the team, or fans are going to wish that money was being spent on someone who is.

You can't be the 3rd highest paid player while being, roughly, the 3rd worst contributor, and not get your share of criticism. It's more about the contract than Cally himself.

You def hit the nail on the head. I am sure he still has plenty of fire left, and hopeful he can find that fire again. Just have to wait and see. I just want to add, that with all this cap space available his contact is not a concern right now, and I think Yzerman wants to salvage what he can, and give him a chance to come back, because it was his contract like you said.

no one expected callahan to fall off world first place second place no one expected him to get career threatening injuries soooooo quickly and yes he has career threatening injuries to recover from now.

I was an athlete the body is tricky everything doesnt bounce back the same my shoulder got busted at 29 it took two years constant weight lifting etc.. to get my strength back to that limb. I got hit by car popped up left hip in 2009 I think it was took one year full year swimming 100 laps a day at the pool to get strength back into that hip.

Its all possible if things go correctly but do I still have issues with both areas yes they bother me. How many of those does it take till hes done.

Is same question unfortunately with stamkos he is so elite with the shot though he can play for years if can deal with the pain even if hes a bit slower etc.. he still is gonna get 30 goals etc..

callahan is not that he plays a certain style that style takes a huge amount from him leaving pieces on the ice across america

That is the concern i wish him the best I am glad we brought him in honestly wish had worked better but he had his moments also. I hope he can be ok playing 2-3 role and be even semi productive moving forward.

I dont hate the guy dislike the deal always had reservations but he played well for awhile and stayed injury free for awhile

he has more heart then ability those are the types of guys in a cup who get the game seven goal to win it at times so maybe since I am a positive person I see that happening one day That would be cool and awesome

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

The more I look at his numbers, the more I want Shattenkirk. He is among the best in the league the last 5 years in nearly every category. Even defensively he isn't that bad. He has better shot suppression numbers than Erik Karlsson and Victor Hedman. Just go to nhl.com and look at defenseman stats from 2010-11 through 2016-17 (sum results over timeframe and add a games played filter of >= 300). He is in the top 10-20 in just about every statistical category.



I don't think 7 mil is unfair for him on the open market, I just don't want 7 years. If we can do 4 years 7 million then we are instantly sporting one of the best best defenses in the league.

Edit: Here is the link to the stats from nhl.com. Filters already added.

ya i looked at hockey reference and players he played with and the one year he was given a deeper role and more ice time and responsibility and he came our solid as hell

so with hedman? interesting since hedman is starting to become or is already all world

i dont want 7x7 but if difference is that year and million to get him over the rangers i wont lose sleep on it if it works out

his comparables are mcdonagh peitrangelo carlson etc.. stat wise is impressive as your saying

 

[LightningStrikes]

Columbus is reportedly looking for a top-6 C. Is there potential for us?