2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

[Ziggy Stardust]

Remember the pockets of fans who wanted Bogosian or Pietrangelo ahead of Doughty in 2008? Fun times.

 

[deaderhead28]

I agree a majority doesn't always make it a fact when it comes to opinions,but even I have nothing bad to say about McNabb.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Is that supposed to make me care? I've seen a ton of posters be wrong in totality.


What was the complaint about McNabb then? Cause I remember his nonexistent hockey Iq, and piss poor speed very well.

What is it with Kings fan developing a longing for a player that moved on? Especially a plug. So weird.

1. He's not a plug, I've demonstrated that in a number of ways that you're deliberately ignoring.

2. I'm not 'longing' for McNabb, I'm making the comparison to Forbort.

3. I made that comparison because you made the completely insupportable claim that Forbort wouldn't even be in the NHL.

Hopefully the bullet points along with the stats/facts from previous posts make it harder to deliberately ignore.

 

[Sol]

Can we all get along?Its ok to disagree,no need to attack one another cause we do.I bet other than K17 I've disagreed with most of you,but that's healthy and great for debate.

He's always on my tail, and it gets annoying, so you gotta dish it back at some point but I'll stop.

1. He's not a plug, I've demonstrated that in a number of ways that you're deliberately ignoring.

2. I'm not 'longing' for McNabb, I'm making the comparison to Forbort.

3. I made that comparison because you made the completely insupportable claim that Forbort wouldn't even be in the NHL.

Hopefully the bullet points along with the stats/facts from previous posts make it harder to deliberately ignore.

What am I ignoring? McNabb played extremely poorly. And it wasn't me who was saying that, everyone saw McNabb floundering. On top of that, I don't think he's "found" himself. Vegas is having a cinderella year so far.

Alright that's fair, but I think on certain rosters forbort wouldn't crack it, on top of that he's a 5-6 so it's not like he's got a ton of space on other teams, or teams that actually would seek someone like him out.

 

[deaderhead28]

Would you trade Ladue for McNabb?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He's always on my tail, and it gets annoying, so you gotta dish it back at some point but I'll stop.



What am I ignoring? McNabb played extremely poorly. And it wasn't me who was saying that, everyone saw McNabb floundering. On top of that, I don't think he's "found" himself. Vegas is having a cinderella year so far.

Alright that's fair, but I think on certain rosters forbort wouldn't crack it, on top of that he's a 5-6 so it's not like he's got a ton of space on other teams, or teams that actually would seek someone like him out.

That's where facts and me disagree with you. I'll agree he floundered and his career is uneven/inconsistent, but he had high peaks to go with those low valleys. I'd say it was pretty commonly accepted that he played a studly 1/3 a season, an up-and-down middle 1/3 season, and a terrible 1/3 season when he played with Drew (then, enter Scuderi...ugh). Then he was playing maybe his best hockey ever before getting his collarbone busted, and came back and couldn't really find his game, and now he moved on and looks like that guy again.

I'm not at all saying he's a sure-fire #2 or anything, only that he's had history of high-level play. That consistency, of course, is what separates top-tier d-men from others (see: Jake Muzzin), but no one will doubt he's an NHLer. I think i'm being fair in saying it's commonly accepted that he can be a 2nd pairing guy on a not-great team or a bottom-pairing guy on a great team, but he's performing very very well right now in a bigger role.

Similarly, Derek Forbort plays that role on the team just behind McNabb's in the standings.

I'm not trying to argue over their eventual landing 'slot' as NHL d-men--god knows d-men projection and development is a total circus that's impossible to figure out at times--only that guys with their deployment/roles get no fanfare because no offense and all the beating because of their roles. And that there's certainly a place in the NHL for such d-men. And that we're immensely spoiled by the 2012-2014 defense of this team if we're getting ready to fire guys McNabb and Forbort out of the NHL instead of acknowledging that they're more or less average players.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Would you trade Ladue for McNabb?

Nope, completely different player, and roster redundancies with stay at home guys. Need LaDue's righty-ness as well as his skating/puck movement. We're short there.

 

[deaderhead28]

Nope, completely different player, and roster redundancies with stay at home guys. Need LaDue's righty-ness as well as his skating/puck movement. We're short there.

We're short on RHD for sure, just not sold on Ladue being a quality top 4 defensemen in the NHL as of yet .Ladue is a ahl player and I believe is 26 years old,and McNabb is around 24 and being able to stay up in the nhl.The organization seems not to have much confidence in Ladue playing up with the big club either right now.Figuring if they did he be there since Kings have a top 4 defensemen hole on the roster.I be ok with the Kings making Ladue part of a trade for a establish top 4 defensemen.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Remember the pockets of fans who wanted Bogosian or Pietrangelo ahead of Doughty in 2008? Fun times.

I was hoping for Stamkos and a dman farther back like J. Carlson or E. Karlsson.

Could you imagine having Kopitar and Stamkos down the middle with Carlson/Karlsson and Voynov on the back end. Wow

 

[KingPuckChoo]

McNabb was very average in LA
Forbort, MacDermid, Fantenberg, Gravel, LaDue, heck even Matt Greene would do well in Vegas this season
it's just how it is

we're missing a top 4D
we've never managed to fully replace Mitchell, Voynov, Regehr with a proper top 4
so people preferring Forbort over McNabb or vice versa, just need to realize that none of these players are top 4

therefore, this debate is Pejorative Slured

 

[Stimpythecat]

Speaking of Voynov, I haven't heard of him signing an extension. Any KHL extension means he's not coming over for the duration of the contract. I am perfectly fine with him not playing in the NHL anymore. What he did has to have consequences.

To recap, the kings still hold his rights but Voynov is likely on an entry ban imposed by US immigration. I imagine Canada might have one on him, too. For the US, it is my understanding he would have to apply for a waiver of that ban and only after a successful application can he then apply for a work visa.

The entry ban application normally takes about 6 months. work visa application another few months at least. For applicants with criminal records, the time is longer. A successful waiver is not guarranteed. Factors like time since the crime, severity, etc. come into play.

So to make any NHL camp on time for 2018-2019, he would have had to get the ball rolling on an application for an entry ban waiver 2-3 months ago.

I don't know about Canada's entry ban process. This also doesn't take into consideration any NHL suspension or one imposed by the Kings.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

McNabb as a top 4 defenseman resulted in no playoffs in 2 of the past 3 seasons, and him being demoted/healthy scratched. He had no business being a top 4 defenseman, handled the puck like it was a hand grenade, and he was a turnstile.

He’s far from what this current blueline needs. Can’t believe people are clamoring for him, lol. It’s like wanting Jack Johnson or Luke Schenn back.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

McNabb was very average in LA
Forbort, MacDermid, Fantenberg, Gravel, LaDue, heck even Matt Greene would do well in Vegas this season
it's just how it is

we're missing a top 4D
we've never managed to fully replace Mitchell, Voynov, Regehr with a proper top 4
so people preferring Forbort over McNabb or vice versa, just need to realize that none of these players are top 4

therefore, this debate is ******ed

Disagree, and so do the eye test and metrics, and their roles on top-tier teams. What sort of proof do people around here need? McNabb isn't getting carried along for the ride by Vegas, he's excelling in his role (#2 d-man playing hard minutes) and part of the reason they're doing well. Hell, not even two weeks ago people here were begging for Colin Miller--Vegas's #6 getting the most preferential minutes in the NHL, so suggesting McNabb is doing well shouldn't be so controversial, but I guess people hold on to their grudges.

The problem isn't that they can't be #4s, the problem is that we have a huge gap between #2 and #4. The problem is that while Martinez and Muzzin are better than the rest, neither guy has proven to be a guy who can fully carry the second pairing, and the rest of the parts are mostly redundant (Forbort, Folin, Gravel...all #4s and down).

If we have Voynov, there is no doubt in my mind that Forbort can be a terrific complement as he's a good SAH guy. In a perfect world, he's moved down the lineup a la Nashville and St. Louis, but there are much worse guys functioning in that role, we're just spoiled and people despise Forbort and McNabb for various reasons.

 

[KINGS17]

Speaking of Voynov, I haven't heard of him signing an extension. Any KHL extension means he's not coming over for the duration of the contract. I am perfectly fine with him not playing in the NHL anymore. What he did has to have consequences.

To recap, the kings still hold his rights but Voynov is likely on an entry ban imposed by US immigration. I imagine Canada might have one on him, too. For the US, it is my understanding he would have to apply for a waiver of that ban and only after a successful application can he then apply for a work visa.

The entry ban application normally takes about 6 months. work visa application another few months at least. For applicants with criminal records, the time is longer. A successful waiver is not guarranteed. Factors like time since the crime, severity, etc. come into play.

So to make any NHL camp on time for 2018-2019, he would have had to get the ball rolling on an application for an entry ban waiver 2-3 months ago.

I don't know about Canada's entry ban process. This also doesn't take into consideration any NHL suspension or one imposed by the Kings.

You know a lot about this process how long were you banned from the United States?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Go to the 45 second mark and marvel at McNabb’s top 4 smarts.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yep, giant fluke play is career defining. Let's ignore the other mountain of evidence to the contrary!

I'll give you one thing, you guys are really committed to this "McNabb and Forbort aren't even NHLers" narrative based on biases, feelings, and fluke plays despite pretty much everything else saying otherwise. More power to you.

 

[tsanuri]

Speaking of Voynov, I haven't heard of him signing an extension. Any KHL extension means he's not coming over for the duration of the contract. I am perfectly fine with him not playing in the NHL anymore. What he did has to have consequences.

To recap, the kings still hold his rights but Voynov is likely on an entry ban imposed by US immigration. I imagine Canada might have one on him, too. For the US, it is my understanding he would have to apply for a waiver of that ban and only after a successful application can he then apply for a work visa.

The entry ban application normally takes about 6 months. work visa application another few months at least. For applicants with criminal records, the time is longer. A successful waiver is not guarranteed. Factors like time since the crime, severity, etc. come into play.

So to make any NHL camp on time for 2018-2019, he would have had to get the ball rolling on an application for an entry ban waiver 2-3 months ago.

I don't know about Canada's entry ban process. This also doesn't take into consideration any NHL suspension or one imposed by the Kings.

Even with all this there is still the issue of whatever league imposed suspension he must serve. And I would say current attitudes have made that even harsher than what it would have been. In other words don't count on it or hold your breath.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yep, giant fluke play is career defining. Let's ignore the other mountain of evidence to the contrary!

The mountain of evidence? Oh, like the same numbers that would prove Franson to be Chicago’s best defenseman?

And that play isn’t a fluke. That’s just being stupid. How can one not be aware not to throw the puck up the middle of the ice from that angle, behind the net, with a player in pursuit? That’s an example of the McNabb we saw here for years.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The mountain of evidence? Oh, like the same numbers that would prove Franson to be Chicago’s best defenseman?

Only if you use them ignorantly without context, sure. He's got good shot metrics with the softest competition and easiest starts on Chicago. It's the Colin Miller thing again.

Don't pretend I just dropped some CF% and walked away. That's insulting. You're better than this.

And not a fluke? Right, pucks 6 inches off the ice deflect backwards into our own net all the time. You literally linked a "Weird NHL Volume 4" video. That's pretty much a self-own.

Hell, take it from Sheng since my opinion sucks so badly. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=89294

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh yes, because corsi is the end all, be all when it comes to analyzing a player and his decision making. Anyone with positive corsi numbers is a flawless player.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh yes, because corsi is the end all, be all when it comes to analyzing a player and his decision making. Anyone with positive corsi numbers is a flawless player.

If you're not even going to try reading my posts, I'm done responding to your strawmen. Have a good night!

The only arguments I've gotten in response to "McNabb and Forbort are good nhl d-men" are boiled down to a blooper on a blooper tape, "I feel like it," and "lolcorsi." Keep up the good discussions I guess.

 

[Fishhead]

The mountain of evidence? Oh, like the same numbers that would prove Franson to be Chicago’s best defenseman?

And that play isn’t a fluke. That’s just being stupid. How can one not be aware not to throw the puck up the middle of the ice from that angle, behind the net, with a player in pursuit? That’s an example of the McNabb we saw here for years.

There are plenty of stats that show McNabb's positive effect. Hes one of the top GS/60 players in the last 4 years. Game score takes many things into effect and is a general measure of productivity (goals, assist, blocks, Corsi, Goals for, goals against) and puts them in a package. Here's the top 25 defensemen, aggregrate, over the last 4 years (2000 min minimum)

Burns
Hedmen
Werenski
Hamilton
Muzzin
Karlsson
Parayko
Klingberg
Krug
Letang
Ellis
Doughty
McNabb
Orlov
Gudas
Josi
Jones
Stralman
Boychuk
Subban
Giordano
Carlson
Pietrangelo
Keith
Byfuglien

Not a lot of fluff in that list, quite the opposite, and McNabb is smack in the middle of it. This isn't a small sample size either, it's over a ton of minutes. Bottom line is, regardless of what people see in him, McNabb has a big positive impact on his team.

Over that same span, no D in the league has a better GA/60 than McNabb. That's a little more of a team based stat, but you don't suck on the ice for 3600+ minutes and let in less goals per minute than every other player in the league.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Radko Gudas and Brayden McNabb are anomalies, covered by teams who have players on the ice who actually can handle the puck.

Hell, look at how much Letang is being torn apart this season for his defensive play. Karlsson ranks high yet every Kings fan questions his defensive abilities.

Look at Willie Mitchell’s advanced stats. If we rely on those numbers, then it proves that McNabb is a far superior defenseman to him.

If we were to depend on possession metrics and defensive numbers, then one would assume that adding an additional defenseman would be the least of the Kings’ needs.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Just curious if anyone out there thinks Moulson might be worth a call up ? as of now hes got 5 goal and 15 assists in 16 games for the reign ?

Never mind didn't see hes got another year at 5 million

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If you're not even going to try reading my posts, I'm done responding to your strawmen. Have a good night!

The only arguments I've gotten in response to "McNabb and Forbort are good nhl d-men" are boiled down to a blooper on a blooper tape, "I feel like it," and "lolcorsi." Keep up the good discussions I guess.

Try watching the games, you might become enlightened when your only argument is corsi numbers. Those meaningful stats proved how dominant the Kings were with the puck in previous years, and look how they fared.