2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

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Fishhead

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Jul 15, 2003
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Radko Gudas and Brayden McNabb are anomalies, covered by teams who have players on the ice who actually can handle the puck.

Hell, look at how much Letang is being torn apart this season for his defensive play. Karlsson ranks high yet every Kings fan questions his defensive abilities.

Look at Willie Mitchell’s advanced stats. If we rely on those numbers, then it proves that McNabb is a far superior defenseman to him.

If we were to depend on possession metrics and defensive numbers, then one would assume that adding an additional defenseman would be the least of the Kings’ needs.

These aren't just advanced stats, GS takes everything into account, it's the best single player metric out there. Taking two guys out of 23 and saying they are an anomaly over a sample size that big isn't a very strong argument.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
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These aren't just advanced stats, GS takes everything into account, it's the best single player metric out there. Taking two guys out of 23 and saying they are an anomaly over a sample size that big isn't a very strong argument.

So McNabb and Gudas are on your list of top 25 defensemen? There is not a single top 25 list that they crack. The notion that they belong with the likes of Norris caliber dmen is a ridiculous use of “metrics.”
 

Herby

How could Blake have known?
Feb 27, 2002
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Advanced metrics are great, but they are also an inexact science. Pro Football Focus which is considered one of the best in the business somehow graded out Matt Ryan as the 2nd best QB in the NFL this year, better than Carson Wentz and Russell Wilson.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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Yep, giant fluke play is career defining. Let's ignore the other mountain of evidence to the contrary!

I'll give you one thing, you guys are really committed to this "McNabb and Forbort aren't even NHLers" narrative based on biases, feelings, and fluke plays despite pretty much everything else saying otherwise. More power to you.
Before McNabb and Forbort it was Muzzin. That was ridiculous.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
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Except for the fact that McNabb and Forbort never will produce like Muzzin, nor are they in any way, shape, or form expected to be a point producing dman and top pairing dman like Muzzin.

What’s ridiculous is your suggestions of walking away from the likes of Kopitar when their contracts are up. That just defies logic.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Jul 25, 2002
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Advanced metrics are great, but they are also an inexact science. Pro Football Focus which is considered one of the best in the business somehow graded out Matt Ryan as the 2nd best QB in the NFL this year, better than Carson Wentz and Russell Wilson.

Forget actually watching the guy play and making dumb mistakes like he did last night, being exposed on both of the regulation goals Edmonton scored. He’s a top 25 defenseman in the NHL!

 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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Except for the fact that McNabb and Forbort never will produce like Muzzin, nor are they in any way, shape, or form expected to be a point producing dman and top pairing dman like Muzzin.

What’s ridiculous is your suggestions of walking away from the likes of Kopitar when their contracts are up. That just defies logic.
Actually, you don't seem to be able to read any facts and data that don't agree with your own personal eye test.

I didn't see anyone compare McNabb or Forbort to Muzzin. What I do remember is you using your personal eye test to tell us all Muzzin was crap when he clearly is a top 4 in the NHL. You just moved on to some new whipping boys, that's all.

Regarding Kopitar, if you actually bothered to read what I post and the links I provided, it was about the decline in production which occurs for almost every forward as they enter their 30's.

I also pointed out how a salary distribution which is very top heavy is not the recipe for success in the NHL. Take a look at Chicago now, but all we will hear from people like yourself is teams have to hand out these kinds of deals. Why, so they can sit in the black hole for 5 years or more?

Yes, I advocated moving Kopitar and getting younger players up front. Why, because every scrap of data out there tells us forwards are at their peak from ages 22-28. Had the Kings done that they could have rebuilt around Doughty and maybe competed for another cup in a few seasons, but they went a different direction choosing to fool themselves with talk of still being cup contenders.

Tell me, you love the eye test, does this team look like it is getting out of the Pacific Division in the playoffs?
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Jul 25, 2002
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At this point I find it more likely for the Kings to peter out of playoff contention than to hold their spot. Everyone who was chasing the Kings is now catching up to them and in all likelihood will surpass them. Yet we had some around here convinced that the Ducks will be no threat...

All of those points given up to rival division teams quickly came back to bite them in the ass. I guess if the Kings kept McNabb, they’d be atop the division though.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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At this point I find it more likely for the Kings to peter out of playoff contention than to hold their spot. Everyone who was chasing the Kings is now catching up to them and in all likelihood will surpass them. Yet we had some around here convinced that the Ducks will be no threat...

All of those points given up to rival division teams quickly came back to bite them in the ass. I guess if the Kings kept McNabb, they’d be atop the division though.

The reddest of red herrings. I never said it was imperative for the Kings to keep McNabb. Would they be better with him in the lineup over one of their existing bottom three? Yes, definitely.

Is McNabb an NHL defensman who can play a role in the top four for a good NHL team? Obviously, yes.
 
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Ziggy Stardust

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The Kings had McNabb in a top 4 role, among various others since he couldn’t keep up. Where did that get them?

Awful management decisions like the Lucic trade is what set this team back as well. Not re-signing Kopitar would’ve been far worse. Might as well trade Quick and Doughty while they’re at it.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,564
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The Kings had McNabb in a top 4 role, among various others since he couldn’t keep up. Where did that get them?

Awful management decisions like the Lucic trade is what set this team back as well. Not re-signing Kopitar would’ve been far worse. Might as well trade Quick and Doughty while they’re at it.

Yet another red herring. Was McNabb the problem last season, or was it more likely Quick's injury to go along with Kopitar's 12-goal season?

McNabb is performing well in his role for Vegas.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
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McNabb wasn’t the problem, him being used in a top 4 role was a problem. He was out of place there and got worse as the season progressed. In addition to missing Quick, the team was mired by a number of issues, most of which was caused by Lombardi and Sutter.
 
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KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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McNabb wasn’t the problem, him being used in a top 4 role was a problem. He was out of place there and got worse as the season progressed. In addition to missing Quick, the team was mired by a number of issues, most of which was caused by Lombardi and Sutter.

Make up your mind. The first place team in the Pacific Division is using McNabb in their top four, and he is performing just fine. Could it be the Kings simply aren't as deep as most teams in the Pacific Division?

Yes, Lombardi blew it in his last few seasons. Starting with the decision to not buy out the Richards contract and many more poor decisions after the 2014 cup.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
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McNabb player 16 or so minutes last night. His numbers fluctuate game to game, and in the past 5 he’s had a few games in the 16-17 minute range.

So Forbort being paired with Doughty makes him a top 4 as well? I didn’t realize a players’ true calling is determined by his place in the lineup. In that case, I guess Trevor Lewis and Nick Shore are top six forwards as well.
 

Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
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It's so weird that a division leader is giving an AHL scrub the 2nd most minutes a game on the team as well as the toughest matchups and PK time. Their player evaluation must be completely off. If only they'd listen to a few posters on HFKings, maybe they'd be a better team. Who needs things like 'facts,' 'stats,' 'evidence', and 'expert opinions?'
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
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So by your definition, McNabb is a top 60 defenseman? I mean, he gets top pairing minutes, so by your reasoning, he is among the top 60 best defensemen in the league.

Alec Martinez is in the top 30 rank in ice time. Guess that makes him a #1 dman. Given the ice time of Nate Schmidt, the Capitals gave up a #1, top pairing defenseman.

Your simplified way of assessing a players’ value is silly, but go on with your spot picking of “metrics.” The same numbers that show that Cody Franson was Chicago’s best possession player.
 

Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
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So by your definition, McNabb is a top 60 defenseman? I mean, he gets top pairing minutes, so by your reasoning, he is among the top 60 best defensemen in the league.

Alec Martinez is in the top 30 rank in ice time. Guess that makes him a #1 dman. Given the ice time of Nate Schmidt, the Capitals gave up a #1, top pairing defenseman.

Your simplified way of assessing a players’ value is silly, but go on with your spot picking of “metrics.” The same numbers that show that Cody Franson was Chicago’s best possession player.

That's not even close to all that was presented, but you go on with your simplified spot-picking of posts. That's been your MO for a while anyway, But I guess I expected better.

And even if it were the only metric I used, it's still better than "youtube clips per year" and "confirmation bias eye test of Ziggy Stardust and Sol" because of the ability to provide quantifiable discussion points instead of "I feel like it"s.

Don't worry, it's your echo chamber now, no more pesky "facts" and "evidence" coming from me.
 
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KingPuckChoo

Go kinGs Go !
Jun 24, 2007
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This board has become a lair for **** talking and complaing. Can' we make a separate thread to put all the whiners in? Seems like every thread for the most part ends up in a debate about how ****ty this team is. Came in here for rumors, kings new and tidbits.

in the separate thread you go
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
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This board has become a lair for **** talking and complaing. Can' we make a separate thread to put all the whiners in? Seems like every thread for the most part ends up in a debate about how ****ty this team is. Came in here for rumors, kings new and tidbits.

The only whining I see in here is your post. We're having a discussion on the merits of McNabb and how deceiving the "metrics" can be, the same metrics that show that Willie Mitchell wasn't a very good defenseman, yet there is no doubt he was one of the best dmen the team has had over the past decade plus.

If you have something to add to the discussion, go ahead. And stop whining.
 
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