2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

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Raccoon Jesus

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Oct 30, 2008
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How has McDonagh's health been this season? Would love him.

Looks like he's only missed a game or two. I'd be all over that if he were available as a long-term option because if he could be the guy to hold down the second pairing good lord what a d-core that could be.

Doughty - Muzzin
McDonagh - LaDue?
Martinez - Folin
Forbort, Gravel, whatever
 
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KingCanadain1976

Registered User
Jul 8, 2009
18,345
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Thunder Bay Ont. Can
You seem to rely heavily upon stats too heavily man. I've seen you use stats up to prop up obviously bad players. And I'm not saying that to insult you cause I've been wrong before too. I remember you told me that MacD was slow as hell, and I said he was good and pretty fast... But man the guys lateral movement is non-existent. His straight line speed is surprisingly quick I don't know if you've seen that. But you were right, he's extremely slow when he's defending,he has no lateral movement for a defenseman which is a really bad thing.

So you were partially right for the most part about that.


But when you start just propping up really bad players with stats it almost seems like you're not really watching.
.. That's my two cents. Trying to be cordial with you.


He is proving what he says other then talking out his ass like you have been You want to keep saying Clifford and Andreoff are plugs yet don't back it up with anything other then ur opinion I and Raccoon have shown stats to prove what we have said. You want to ignore that fine that is your right but there is no use in arguing with crazy i found that out years ago. Try backing your opinion up with something if you continue i will probably just chalk you up to trolling Imo trolling is posting thing intended to provoke a fight and your doing it by continuly calling them plugs without any actual proof of brodzinski and jokinen are better bs. Eye test only goes so far and when your eye is proven wrong with actual stats you ignore it and go back to calling them plugs
 
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deaderhead28

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
5,422
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Nolan wanted to leave the kings So i wouldn't care if he was 10 times better you don't want to be here don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Interesting story on Nolan,any chance you might know the link to that story?I just would like to read that if true.
 

Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
63,452
66,472
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He is proving what he says other then talking out his ass like you have been You want to keep saying Clifford and Andreoff are plugs yet don't back it up with anything other then ur opinion I and Raccoon have shown stats to prove what we have said. You want to ignore that fine that is your right but there is no use in arguing with crazy i found that out years ago. Try backing your opinion up with something if you continue i will probably just chalk you up to trolling Imo trolling is posting thing intended to provoke a fight and your doing it by continuly calling them plugs without any actual proof of brodzinski and jokinen are better bs. Eye test only goes so far and when your eye is proven wrong with actual stats you ignore it and go back to calling them plugs

To be fair he's saying that together they are bad. I don't think many people want to see Clifford and Andreoff in the lineup at the same time together but I'm pretty confident in saying no one wants them on the same line together.
 

KingCanadain1976

Registered User
Jul 8, 2009
18,345
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Thunder Bay Ont. Can
To be fair he's saying that together they are bad. I don't think many people want to see Clifford and Andreoff in the lineup at the same time together but I'm pretty confident in saying no one wants them on the same line together.
Ah no he has said he wants neither in the lineup and the forth line was so much better before the two got back in the lineup I have posted both stat lines of clifford and andreoff vs Jokinen and Brodzinski and hes ignored this post as the stats back up both were just as good plus adding in a lot better physical element. I am tired of his posting the plugs with nothing to back up his claim other then his opinion
 

Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
24,535
20,692
Like who, though? That's my only qualm really. I take issue with the idea that McNabb and Forbort are "obviously bad." Miscast at times? Absolutely. Not NHLers? That's why I drew the line where I did and used that to support things. And part of that is my interest in defensive defenseman types, because they often get put in situations where 'not failure' is the best they can do. Robyn Regehr, for example, almost always had terrible stats. He also got some of the toughest minutes in the NHL. Not that Forbort or McNabb can hold Robyn's jock, but it's a similar mission.

I agree I was a little surprised by MacD's straight line speed. Sort of a Bowser from Mario Kart skater :laugh: his side to side agility is what kills him but towards the end of his stint he was getting muscled on the boards too by guys like Kase and that was just appalling. I can see why the org sees him as a huge ball of clay. I'll admit there seems to be more to like than I initially thought that's for sure. But he needs more dev. time. I'm excited to see what he can do in big minutes in Ontario now that he's learned quite a bit at the NHL level.



I'm not against that. But you know personally I like Clifford for honest toughness and possession if nothing else. But if the lineup was Kempe-Kopitar-Brown / Pearson -Lewis-Toffoli / Gaborik-Amadio-Brodzinksi / Shore -Mitchell -Lewis I wouldn't be upset at his absence really. I was a big fan of that bottom line when it had no Clifford and was something like Jokinen - Mitchell - Brodzinski because I was pretty high on JJ's IQ out there. As others have said during this slide, the fourth line has been poor in that it's been getting scored on at an abnormal rate; I don't particularly care if they're scoring machines, they just have to not be - machines and have a remote chance of scoring. Shore-Mitchell-Lewis could be a threat.
Look with forbort there's a good amount of things he does that I simply can't stand, he's really poor at passing, handling the puck, how often he gets beat from the outside, his shot is very awful, like Rob Scuderi level. And his first pass seems always off.

I understand defensive defenseman archetype, I'm just surprised how he's so poor at so many things. I want to see him succeed but I think he's lacking too much in the fundamentals to grow. But I could be wrong.



Looks like he's only missed a game or two. I'd be all over that if he were available as a long-term option because if he could be the guy to hold down the second pairing good lord what a d-core that could be.

Doughty - Muzzin
McDonagh - LaDue?
Martinez - Folin
Forbort, Gravel, whatever

I would love to see it. Wonder what the price is
 

Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
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Look with forbort there's a good amount of things he does that I simply can't stand, he's really poor at passing, handling the puck, how often he gets beat from the outside, his shot is very awful, like Rob Scuderi level. And his first pass seems always off.

I understand defensive defenseman archetype, I'm just surprised how he's so poor at so many things. I want to see him succeed but I think he's lacking too much in the fundamentals to grow. But I could be wrong.


I would love to see it. Wonder what the price is

Re: Forbort that part gets me hard because I agree with you yet in his first couple of appearances with the Kings that was the thing I noticed most about him and what I thought would make him pretty successful in the NHL--his first pass was absolutely breathtaking. Better than Drew or Muzzin. No clue what's happened since.

Re: McDonagh,

Animated GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY
 

crassbonanza

Fire Luc
Sep 28, 2017
3,296
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Andreoff has the worst rel GF% and 3rd worst GF% of any forward in the league with 200 minutes. He takes penalties at a high rate, does not kill penalties and has some of the worst possession on the team to go along with the 4th best zone start rate. How in the world can you say andreoff is not a plug?
 

Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
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Andreoff has the worst rel GF% and 3rd worst GF% of any forward in the league with 200 minutes. He takes penalties at a high rate, does not kill penalties and has some of the worst possession on the team to go along with the 4th best zone start rate. How in the world can you say andreoff is not a plug?

Andreoff is absolutely a plug. I'm guessing that was more about why lump Clifford in with him, which I absolutely agree with.
 

KingsFan7824

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Dec 4, 2003
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Wow!! Just exaggerate what I've said Lol No one said this team couldn't be a contender.As many have said,the team is a top 4 defensemen from seriously contending at the very lease on paper.Be better if they could fill the thirdline center position as well.Ive said they're a playoff team but not deep enough to win a cup.Wasting another year on the core isn't smart.Ladue wasn't the answer last year and he still isn't the top 4 defensemen answer now.Hopefully Blake has called Ladue up to have other teams watch him and trade him as part of a package for a top 4 defensemen.Maybe Blake can add Andreoff as a extra in the deal.

All they need is a top 4 defenseman that they haven't been able to find since 10/20/14. McBain, Sekera, Schenn, McNabb, Forbort, I guess LaDue. And if they're a playoff team that isn't deep enough to win the Cup, 2nd in the conference at any point means nothing. Doesn't matter how far they've fallen from a hot streak.

To get an actual top 4 guy, they have to pay up, especially if nobody wants to see another rental come in. Of course Doughty's future contract has to be factored in. Can't bring in a guy making too much, unless you get rid of Martinez or Muzzin, which defeats the purpose. Other than Green, there's no rental with top 4 potential that might be traded. What's left is bringing someone in with hopefully more than just 1 year on his deal, but again Doughty has to be worried about, and who is going to hand you a legit top 4 right handed defenseman anyway? That guy isn't available. It's LaDue or nothing. Sounds like they won't be a contender this year.

If Jokinen helps them to a 1st round exit, or Andreoff helps them to a better draft pick, since they aren't, and aren't going to be a contender, give me Andreoff. This paper tiger needs to be fully exposed.
 
Jul 31, 2005
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Still plenty of time to make a deal. I don't think Blake will stand pat yet I didn't think he would stand pat this past summer and boy oh boy does it look like he stood pat right now. The Kings needed goals, they did not add any goals the Kings still need goals.
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
22,922
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Not sure where this tag teaming on RJ is coming from. He brings up stats a lot, yes, but he brings it up in conjunction with the eye test.

Funny thing is, people do the same thing with basic stats (goals, ice time, etc) and nobody bats an eye.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,564
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Still plenty of time to make a deal. I don't think Blake will stand pat yet I didn't think he would stand pat this past summer and boy oh boy does it look like he stood pat right now. The Kings needed goals, they did not add any goals the Kings still need goals.
The goals have to start coming from guys like Toffoli, Pearson, Kopitar, Brown and Gaborik. All of them have been stone cold lately.
 
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Cook24

Registered User
Oct 14, 2005
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Chino, CA
Clifford and pick for Maroon.
Forbort, Amadio, 2nd in 2019 for Green and Tatar
Pearson and Ladue for Mcdonagh

Tatar-Kopitar-Brown
Gaborik-Carter-Toffoli
Maroon-Kempe-Lewis
Iafallo-Shore-Brodzinski

McDonagh-Doughty
Muzzin-Green
Martinez-Folin/Gravel

I need help...
 

Reaper45

Registered User
Jul 14, 2003
37,434
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Los Angeles
Clifford and pick for Maroon.
Forbort, Amadio, 2nd in 2019 for Green and Tatar
Pearson and Ladue for Mcdonagh

Tatar-Kopitar-Brown
Gaborik-Carter-Toffoli
Maroon-Kempe-Lewis
Iafallo-Shore-Brodzinski

McDonagh-Doughty
Muzzin-Green
Martinez-Folin/Gravel

I need help...
Deal 1 not enough, deal 2 too much, deal 3 not enough.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,564
11,711
Wow!! Just exaggerate what I've said Lol No one said this team couldn't be a contender. As many have said,the team is a top 4 defensemen from seriously contending at the very lease on paper. Be better if they could fill the thirdline center position as well.Ive said they're a playoff team but not deep enough to win a cup. Wasting another year on the core isn't smart.Ladue wasn't the answer last year and he still isn't the top 4 defensemen answer now. Hopefully Blake has called Ladue up to have other teams watch him and trade him as part of a package for a top 4 defensemen. Maybe Blake can add Andreoff as a extra in the deal.

A top 4 defenseman fills a hole (pretty difficult to acquire one with the assets the Kings have to offer in a trade), but it doesn't move them into contender status in my mind.

I'm not going to claim to know Ladue's game very well, but if the Kings development department considers him to have the potential to be a top 4, they would be smart to hold onto him. They are going to need lower cost / high quality players.

Again, Robitaille and Blake have sold themselves to AEG with their evaluation of this roster being a cup contender. All that was supposedly required was a few tweaks and a different style of play.

I don't think the Kings are as bad as their recent record indicates, but they are not as good as people here were touting them to be during a couple of good winning streaks. This is a black hole team if Quick isn't standing on his head.
 

Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
63,452
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A top 4 defenseman fills a hole (pretty difficult to acquire one with the assets the Kings have to offer in a trade), but it doesn't move them into contender status in my mind.

I'm not going to claim to know Ladue's game very well, but if the Kings development department considers him to have the potential to be a top 4, they would be smart to hold onto him. They are going to need lower cost / high quality players.

Again, Robitaille and Blake have sold themselves to AEG with their evaluation of this roster being a cup contender. All that was supposedly required was a few tweaks and a different style of play.

I don't think the Kings are as bad as their recent record indicates, but they are not as good as people here were touting them to be during a couple of good winning streaks. This is a black hole team if Quick isn't standing on his head.

Gotta admit it's by far the biggest, most glaring hole, though. Especially when Muzzin was out of the lineup. And that's been true in the midst of winning AND losing streaks.

Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown have all slowed down slightly and the depth hasn't been contributing lately. And without those guys being superhuman, yeah, we're an average team. Double exposure with no Carter and Muzzin, especially vs. tougher teams. But that goal differential didn't happen by accident--we will be in the mix all year. That's all I really hoped for--make it entertaining, and be in the hunt.
 
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KingsHockey24

Registered User
Aug 1, 2013
14,551
13,376
Clifford and pick for Maroon.
Forbort, Amadio, 2nd in 2019 for Green and Tatar
Pearson and Ladue for Mcdonagh

Tatar-Kopitar-Brown
Gaborik-Carter-Toffoli
Maroon-Kempe-Lewis
Iafallo-Shore-Brodzinski

McDonagh-Doughty
Muzzin-Green
Martinez-Folin/Gravel

I need help...
Why would Edmonton make the first trade? Also Green makes over 6M a year, Detroit would need to retain quite a bit. Last trade is just myeh; never would happen.
 

Magicman

Registered User
Mar 18, 2008
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172
Trevor Daley to LA for Iafallo, a young D and/or pick depending on what round and maybe a prospect.
Doughty Muzzin
Daley Martinez
Gravel, Forbort, Folin/Fantenberg, McDermit, take your pick
 

kings11

Registered User
Sep 29, 2011
6,310
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Las Vegas
A top 4 defenseman fills a hole (pretty difficult to acquire one with the assets the Kings have to offer in a trade), but it doesn't move them into contender status in my mind.

I'm not going to claim to know Ladue's game very well, but if the Kings development department considers him to have the potential to be a top 4, they would be smart to hold onto him. They are going to need lower cost / high quality players.

Again, Robitaille and Blake have sold themselves to AEG with their evaluation of this roster being a cup contender. All that was supposedly required was a few tweaks and a different style of play.

I don't think the Kings are as bad as their recent record indicates, but they are not as good as people here were touting them to be during a couple of good winning streaks. This is a black hole team if Quick isn't standing on his head.

I happen to like the team as it is and how it could be moving forward. The hole at the top 4 is glaring and our ability to obtain a defenseman of that caliber would cost far too much. Amadio seems ready to come up and be that sorely needed 3C, while we don't know what LaDue has to offer. My thought is that LaDue will be brought up after the ASG and be evaluated, while guys like Frolin, Fantenberg and Gravel might/should be shopped since there is such a high demand for the position.
You've been a proponent of moving Kopitar, Brown and Doughty, while I have been all for moving Muzzin, Martinez, Fantenberg and Frolin. I think the luck of Gabe Vilardi dropping and likely being NHL ready next season and the emergence of Michael Amadio will secure the 2C/3C positions for the foreseeable future. How Blake and FO view Gravel, LaDue and Clague(next season) will determine what happens to our blue line.
I will admit, this seasons team runs extremely hot and cold. If we get into the POs and are in the midst of a cold streak we'll be bounced rather quickly but if we enter the POs riding a hot streak... I only see Calgary and Nashville as teams that would give us fits....

But back to Vilardi, Amadio, LaDue and whoever else emerges, we could be prolific on offense next season....
Pearson - Kopitar - Brown
Kempe - Vilardi - Carter
Iafallo - Amadio - Toffoli
Lewis - Shore - Brodzinski

Maybe Blake pulls the trigger on that long rumored Phaneuf/Gaborik trade with retention on Ottawa's part..
 

Reaper45

Registered User
Jul 14, 2003
37,434
5,627
Los Angeles
I happen to like the team as it is and how it could be moving forward. The hole at the top 4 is glaring and our ability to obtain a defenseman of that caliber would cost far too much. Amadio seems ready to come up and be that sorely needed 3C, while we don't know what LaDue has to offer. My thought is that LaDue will be brought up after the ASG and be evaluated, while guys like Frolin, Fantenberg and Gravel might/should be shopped since there is such a high demand for the position.
You've been a proponent of moving Kopitar, Brown and Doughty, while I have been all for moving Muzzin, Martinez, Fantenberg and Frolin. I think the luck of Gabe Vilardi dropping and likely being NHL ready next season and the emergence of Michael Amadio will secure the 2C/3C positions for the foreseeable future. How Blake and FO view Gravel, LaDue and Clague(next season) will determine what happens to our blue line.
I will admit, this seasons team runs extremely hot and cold. If we get into the POs and are in the midst of a cold streak we'll be bounced rather quickly but if we enter the POs riding a hot streak... I only see Calgary and Nashville as teams that would give us fits....

But back to Vilardi, Amadio, LaDue and whoever else emerges, we could be prolific on offense next season....
Pearson - Kopitar - Brown
Kempe - Vilardi - Carter
Iafallo - Amadio - Toffoli
Lewis - Shore - Brodzinski

Maybe Blake pulls the trigger on that long rumored Phaneuf/Gaborik trade with retention on Ottawa's part..
that roster is Charmin soft.
 
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