World Cup: 2016 World Cup-Team Finland II

[BB88]

I refuse to believe this.

I just watched it, they raised Rinne 1st as the positive, then said Vatanen was completely different player than he was in pre season games and 3rd was Komarov.

 

[Loffer]

Well. My internal jukebox is now set up to play the Benny Hill theme every time they show Lauri. Thank you very much for that.

Be my guest, Lempo. I'm here to entertain you anyway, if you did'nt know by now. Hah.

 

[snipes]

No but Finland usually has a team that follows the game plan set by coaches the best. This time the game plan was wrong.

Can't collapse the middle in a shell in the defensive zone like you can on the big ice. The play is too fast and physical on smaller ice. The shell doesn't work as well on the smaller ice, even if you clog the middle you still leave prime shooting areas open.

The reality is, the Finnish D are no match for the NA forwards. They were exposed and couldn't handle the speed and relentless attack of Team NA. Risto held up admirably, but outside of him, the D were exploited all night.

Turn your guys loose up front, let them be creative and attack Tre Kronor and Russia. Use your forwards and play to their advantages. Passive hockey will not work at this tournament.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I was watching the videotuomarit and thinking they are talking sense, and then they say Rinne was fantastic for us, made lots of fantastic saves.
The guy killed us last night, seemed like he was getting scored on every shot in the 1st.

He did make some fantastic saves. He also completely broke the confidence of the team with his start. Making some fantastic saves when the game is over doesn't make up for that.

 

[kelsier]

TOI among centers was:
Barkov: 14:57
Koivu: 19:33
Filppula: 17:39
Haula: 10:32

That's just absurd to me. Was Barkov that bad? Also Donskoi with over 18 minutes and Lehterä just over 8 mins. :S

This is what's been bugging me pretty much every since the practise games. You have a losing team in hands and a heck of a first line center like Barkov in the team, yet you rather play old veterans that have less offensive ability. Marjamäki seems rather clueless with line usage. Wish there was someone else doing that for him. Those things can easily get you the fastest ticket back home.

 

[DoubleGold]

This is what's been bugging me pretty much every since the practise games. You have a losing team in hands and a heck of a first line center like Barkov in the team, yet you rather play old veterans that have less offensive ability. Marjamäki seems rather clueless with line usage. Wish there was someone else doing that for him. Those things can easily get you the fastest ticket back home.

Typical Marjamäki.

 

[Scotty B]

Lempo

Well. My internal jukebox is now set up to play the Benny Hill theme every time they show Lauri. Thank you very much for that.

Be my guest, Lempo. I'm here to entertain you anyway, if you did'nt know by now. Hah.

Off topic...BUT didn't somebody have Benny's theme music mixed in with highlights/ low-lights of Markstrom flopping like a fish outa water in WJC 2009 Gold Game? Can't find it on YT...But oh my, what a comedic farce / instant classic

 

[Scotty B]

Can't collapse the middle in a shell in the defensive zone like you can on the big ice. The play is too fast and physical on smaller ice. The shell doesn't work as well on the smaller ice, even if you clog the middle you still leave prime shooting areas open.

The reality is, the Finnish D are no match for the NA forwards. They were exposed and couldn't handle the speed and relentless attack of Team NA. Risto held up admirably, but outside of him, the D were exploited all night.

Turn your guys loose up front, let them be creative and attack Tre Kronor and Russia. Use your forwards and play to their advantages. Passive hockey will not work at this tournament.

Nah I disagree with that...Euros clogged up the middle/neutral zone good on Team USA and pounced on their mistakes. Czechs played a patient game vs Team NA in exhibition and it paid dividends. Heck --- if u ignore the illegal and unnecessary antics -- Fred Shero and Broad Street Bullies did it way back in 1976 vs a faster CCCP squad...

Not only can it be done, even on small ice...it was really the ONLY way Suomi could have countered T-NA superior speed and offensive flair...Gotta use YG's over-exuberance and mindset to always want to be on the attack against them...

 

[snipes]

Nah I disagree with that...Euros clogged up the middle good on Team USA and pounced on their mistakes. Czechs played a patient game vs Team NA in exhibition and it paid dividends. Heck --- if u ignore the illegal and unnecessary antics -- Fred Shero and Broad Street Bullies did it way back in 1976 vs a faster CCCP...

Not only can it be done, even on small ice...it was really the ONLY way Suomi could have countered T-NA superior speed and offensive flair...Gotta use YG's over-exuberance and mindset to be always wanting to attack against them...

They played more of a neutral zone trap, that's different than a defensive shell in your own zone.

 

[BusQuets]

Can't collapse the middle in a shell in the defensive zone like you can on the big ice. The play is too fast and physical on smaller ice. The shell doesn't work as well on the smaller ice, even if you clog the middle you still leave prime shooting areas open.

The reality is, the Finnish D are no match for the NA forwards. They were exposed and couldn't handle the speed and relentless attack of Team NA. Risto held up admirably, but outside of him, the D were exploited all night.

Turn your guys loose up front, let them be creative and attack Tre Kronor and Russia. Use your forwards and play to their advantages. Passive hockey will not work at this tournament.

Finland has successfully played trap game on small ice before with defense that's not that good. Going all loose against opponents that has better players is probably the worst idea i know. Also this game was one of the least physicals games that i remember Finnish team playing.

 

[Scotty B]

They played more of a neutral zone trap, that's different than a defensive shell in your own zone.

Neutral zone trap was what I was driving at...and I added that a moment later as an edit...still even in the D zone, Euros always had numbers vs Yanks...And YG's didn't have much space there vs Czechs either.

 

[BusQuets]

Nah I disagree with that...Euros clogged up the middle/neutral zone good on Team USA and pounced on their mistakes. Czechs played a patient game vs Team NA in exhibition and it paid dividends. Heck --- if u ignore the illegal and unnecessary antics -- Fred Shero and Broad Street Bullies did it way back in 1976 vs a faster CCCP squad...

Not only can it be done, even on small ice...it was really the ONLY way Suomi could have countered T-NA superior speed and offensive flair...Gotta use YG's over-exuberance and mindset to be always want to be on the attack against them...

I agree. Coach Marjamaki severely underestimated team-NA which is probably the 2nd best team in terms of talent in this tournament. They never should have tried to straight up challenge with speed. I think you will see Sweden and Russia completely trying to take away tempo from the game when playing against team-NA.

 

[snipes]

Finland has successfully played trap game on small ice before with defense that's not that good. Going all loose against opponents that has better players is probably the worst idea i know. Also this game was one of the least physicals games that i remember Finnish team playing.

The neutral zone trap is different than the shell in the defensive zone.

The Finns are masters at the shell on the big ice, they clog up the middle and force things outside on the wide ice. They capitalize on blocked shots and turnovers in transition to create offence, it's a patient style where they pounce on mistakes. It's too passive for NA ice where physical play and pace negate the shell, there is not enough time to effectively set up a shell against the heavy forecheck.

The NA game is different, it's faster. More dump and chase with a heavy forecheck, the shell is just not as effective. And again, the shell differs from the trap.

 

[BusQuets]

The neutral zone trap is different than the shell in the defensive zone.

The Finns are masters at the shell on the big ice, they clog up the middle and force things outside on the wide ice. They capitalize on blocked shots and turnovers in transition to create offence, it's a patient style where they pounce on mistakes. It's too passive for NA ice where physical play and pace negate the shell, there is not enough time to effectively set up a shell against the heavy forecheck.

The NA game is different, it's faster. More dump and chase with a heavy forecheck, the shell is just not as effective. And again, the shell differs from the trap.

You don't have to educate me on the NA game because i'm more than familiar with it. The problem with defensive zone began with the problems with offensive game. Finns tried constantly to push forward when they got the puck. It was 1 vs 3 or 2 vs 4 all the time. Then when they lose the puck team-NA constantly got to fly through the neutral zone with numbers. Then tired Finnish players were gassed trying to defend the cycle. Rinse and repeat.

Slowing down the game isn't rocket science in the small ring either. It requires more courage and confidence from players but it can be done and finns have done it numerous times before. Now i'm not saying they would have won if they have slowed down the game but the premise which finns started the game was suicide form the start.

 

[snipes]

You don't have to educate me on the NA game because i'm more than familiar with it. The problem with defensive zone began with the problems with offensive game. Finns tried constantly to push forward when they got the puck. It was 1 vs 3 or 2 vs 4 all the time. Then when they lose the puck team-NA constantly got to fly through the neutral zone with numbers. Then tired Finnish players were gassed trying to defend the cycle. Rinse and repeat.

Slowing down the game isn't rocket science in the small ring either. It requires more courage and confidence from players but it can be done and finns have done it numerous times before. Now i'm not saying they would have won if they have slowed down the game but the premise which finns started the game was suicide form the start.

I wasn't trying to educate, you just mentioned the trap specifically, that's why I was delineating the two. No intent to insult or patronize.

Perhaps the Finns were just completely overwhelmed and couldn't answer the pace Team NA played at because NA are that much better? Even courage and confidence in an attempt to slow the game down would be futile.

They were completely dominated all night by a better hockey team. The 4-1 score is flattering, that game easily could have been 7-1 or worse. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I'm still in shock to see a Finnish team get demolished like that. You rarely see it.

 

[BusQuets]

I wasn't trying to educate, you just mentioned the trap specifically, that's why I was delineating the two. No intent to insult or patronize.

Perhaps the Finns were just completely overwhelmed and couldn't answer the pace Team NA played at because NA are that much better? Even courage and confidence in an attempt to slow the game down would be futile.

They were completely dominated all night by a better hockey team. The 4-1 score is flattering, that game easily could have been 7-1 or worse. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I'm still in shock to see a Finnish team get demolished like that. You rarely see it.

I highly doubt Finnish team is as bad as it seemed or NA team is as good as it seemed. After all Finnish team is full of NHL'ers but looked like average AHL team. I think Sweden and Russia games tell us more.

 

[snipes]

I highly doubt Finnish team is as bad as it seemed or NA team is as good as it seemed. After all Finnish team is full of NHL'ers but looked like average AHL team. I think Sweden and Russia games tell us more.

I'm pulling for them. They still control their own destiny, win both and they're in.

 

[ijuka]

I highly doubt Finnish team is as bad as it seemed or NA team is as good as it seemed. After all Finnish team is full of NHL'ers but looked like average AHL team. I think Sweden and Russia games tell us more.

Finland's coaching has been very poor so far in every single game.

Indeed, while Finland's material isn't the greatest, they still have several first liners and top 6 NHLers who should be able to look at least somewhat competitive even with NHL first liners. The whole system just hasn't functioned at all.

The funny thing is that always every analyst as well as the coach says that the same things must be improved but none of it is ever improved.

 

[BB88]

He did make some fantastic saves. He also completely broke the confidence of the team with his start. Making some fantastic saves when the game is over doesn't make up for that.

Yep, in the 1st Rinne was saved by Ristolainen, video review, goal line, Pokka, 2 posts, and what else?

This is what's been bugging me pretty much every since the practise games. You have a losing team in hands and a heck of a first line center like Barkov in the team, yet you rather play old veterans that have less offensive ability. Marjamäki seems rather clueless with line usage. Wish there was someone else doing that for him. Those things can easily get you the fastest ticket back home.

Who also happen to be the slowest players on our team.
Barkov is our only proven 1st line player in the NHL yet he's used like a 3rd/4th line forward.

 

[Trilliann]

New lines

Patrik Laine-Aleksander Barkov-Sebastian Aho

Mikael Granlund-Mikko Koivu-Joonas Donskoi

Jussi Jokinen-Valtteri Filppula-Leo Komarov

Teuvo Teräväinen-Jori Lehterä-Lauri Korpikoski

Sami Lepistö-Rasmus Ristolainen

Olli Määttä-Sami Vatanen

Jyrki Jokipakka-Ville Pokka


http://www.iltasanomat.fi/jaakiekko/art-2000001264417.html

 

[Nordic*]

You can talk all you want about systems, but bottom line, you need to have good enough individual players to be able to handle all the 1 on 1s that happen in games hundreds of times.

 

[Dris]

Finland has successfully played trap game on small ice before with defense that's not that good. Going all loose against opponents that has better players is probably the worst idea i know. Also this game was one of the least physicals games that i remember Finnish team playing.

The defense were gentle darlings... it is a joke that Scheiffele almost scored by pushing from behind a finnish defender towards Rinne and the net...and no real hit back... I cannot imagine the same play of any team against Sweden or Canada, there would be some blood dammit

 

[Snowsii]

Finland's coaching has been very poor so far in every single game.

Indeed, while Finland's material isn't the greatest, they still have several first liners and top 6 NHLers who should be able to look at least somewhat competitive even with NHL first liners. The whole system just hasn't functioned at all.

The funny thing is that always every analyst as well as the coach says that the same things must be improved but none of it is ever improved.

Any stats coming up?

 

[Dris]

New lines

Patrik Laine-Aleksander Barkov-Sebastian Aho

Mikael Granlund-Mikko Koivu-Joonas Donskoi

Jussi Jokinen-Valtteri Filppula-Leo Komarov

Teuvo Teräväinen-Jori Lehterä-Lauri Korpikoski

Sami Lepistö-Rasmus Ristolainen

Olli Määttä-Sami Vatanen

Jyrki Jokipakka-Ville Pokka


http://www.iltasanomat.fi/jaakiekko/art-2000001264417.html

Great to finally see Komarov in the third line, although I would put him in the second line with Koivu and Granlund.

I would also put Donskoi with Fillpula and Teravainen in a hypothetical third line.

Jokinen is just not fit to play and I would scratch him

Finnally we are gonna need 35 min of the Lepistö-Rasmus Ristolainen
combo...none of the other defenders inspire any trust whatsoever... I am really dissapointed with Olli Määttä and Sami Vatanen

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

A thought has started to swirl around in my head, after reading all of our garbage analysts stories (UL, Sihvonen, everyone)..
That they make strong points, Lions under Marjamäki have not played well yet at all. To that I connect the stories of Lauri listening to players. I remember Teemu and co not having a clue about Jukka Jalonens game plans - that same old guard is now along as advisors..

Is Marjamäki trying too hard, to take it all into account, that he has ended up ripping his playbook apart and we skate around like headless chickens?
New coach, new tourney, too little time to prepare - try to follow recommendations, old guard say Koivu line is first - gets most ice time, old guard says euro tactics don't work, mushed up mess of a game plan instead..

It sort of makes sense.

I will have to sleep on it and ponder it more, last nights game still exhausts, but sometimes even the blind chicken ("analysts") finds a seed