I can't speak for the European character but for Canadians ask Knat Dominachelli if he had a hard time getting up to play for the Swiss against Canada, after winning a gold with Canada at the WJC. He played great in 2010 and I think your right they might not be able to dig quite as deep as playing for their full national teams but they will still be representing their countries and theyll have a lot more talent to make up the difference. Either way I don't consider Slovaks, Swiss, Euro stars or U23 team a strong title threat.
World Cup: 2016 World Cup — Team Europe
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I can't speak for the European character but for Canadians ask Knat Dominachelli if he had a hard time getting up to play for the Swiss against Canada, after winning a gold with Canada at the WJC. He played great in 2010 and I think your right they might not be able to dig quite as deep as playing for their full national teams but they will still be representing their countries and theyll have a lot more talent to make up the difference. Either way I don't consider Slovaks, Swiss, Euro stars or U23 team a strong title threat.
All European hockey countries should feel insulted of this. I do too. I also want Slovakia and Switzerland in the tournament instead of these 2 teams.
I hope Swiss and Slovaks indeed boycott this tourney so this wont happen again and at the same time since the tournament is going to happen anyways maybe the non Slovaks and Swiss in the team will have motivation to play cause they know their teams wouldn't get to play in the tournament anyways. So that's the one positive thing about this.
I hope Swiss and Slovaks indeed boycott this tourney so this wont happen again and at the same time since the tournament is going to happen anyways maybe the non Slovaks and Swiss in the team will have motivation to play cause they know their teams wouldn't get to play in the tournament anyways. So that's the one positive thing about this.
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Rather make it Erik Karlsson, Bödker, Zuccarello and rest are Finns.
Team Canada men's team and add Hayley Wickenheiser in there.
and forget that u-23 team and make o-40 team. This would have players like Gretzky, Lemieux etc.
Here's my best idea though: Since we have 5 slots for European teams in this tournament and 3 for NA let's just mix up all European countries together and make 5 Euro allstar teams. The names of the teams could be The Penguins, The Rangers, The Kings, The Bruins and The Flames. So sort of like a new mini NHL league. My point is NHL don't insert allstar teams to a national team tournament because those teams are the same thing as NHL clubs... It's so stupid.
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It's all my fault. I basically dared Johnsie19 a couple of pages back...
Looks like he delivered.
[Mod] No other kind would essentially pull claims out of his backside and respond to the negative commentary - and sometimes open hostility - with similar kind of stubborness, without even considering that there might be a point in there somewhere. A point that, btw, is backed up by decades of international hockey tradition.
To cite Domenichelli as some kind of comparable case is a complete non-sequitur. Domenichelli a) wasn't entered into a pact to play for another team by some moronic old fart wearing a suit, but made it entirely voluntarily - and b) that happened after living and playing for years in Switzerland.
Or how do you think it happened? One day some exec from the Swiss Fed just rings him up and says: "Hallo, Hnat, wir haben this splendid idea last nacht. Give you a Swiss passport and you play für unser in olympics, sound gut? We ask Crosby first, but he say nein."
"Umm... uhh... ah what the heck. It'd be a little weird, but sure, why not?"
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Dominichelli is but a small side note but the point was he had no chance to play in the Olympics for his native country but he was given an option to play in the Olympics for another country which he did. He didn't need extra motivation to go up against Canada he has pride in himself. Anze Kopitar, Christian Ehrhoff, Nino Neidereiter, Carl Hagelan, Denis Seidenberg, etc have all been given that same second chance. I know some may sulk (such as the slovaks as you suggest, although I doubt it) but I would project most will jump at the opportunity to play in a prestigous, one of a kind tournament, that will likely break all records for hockey viewership and help expand the global brand, knowing full well this is a one off format. And the NHLPA's vote supports my assumption.
You call me stubborn and clueless and a tool and a troll because I don't respond to your opinion. I get that your upset. I do. I also get the bigger picture. And everything you've directed my why via stubborness and inconsideration for your point can also be directed at you re: my point but I have decided not to take this discussion personally. Yes it is hard at first but you do feel better after when you don't have to resort to name calling.
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Epsilon
#basta
I'm sure you have some actual hard data to support this, right? And by that I mean representative stratified random samples with sufficiently large sample sizes, rather than conclusions you simply pulled out of thin air.
Look, there are some very upset people in this thread. They are people who are passionate about the game and international tradition, and they have very good reasons to be upset. The fact that you belittle their stances, make very uninformed or down right baseless claims, and overall fail to symphatize with their plight is nothing but feeding fuel to the fire.
So don't even pretend you have some kind of moral high ground here. It is exactly like I said. Either you behave in such obnoxious manner because you truly are clueless about hockey in Europe and therefore unqualified to comment on these matters. Or you very well know you're getting the rile out of these people, which is the very definition of trolling.
No I am simply trying to help people realize why the NHL and the NHLPA decided to do the tournament this way. It has nothing to do with belittling anyone. Have you pushed my buttons, sure, have I responded sure, but mostly I've tried to keep it civil.
I have just as much respect for tradition as you do. My country has more hockey tradition and takes hockey more seriously than any other nation so if this were truly going to destroy the game of hockey or whatever miserable thing you think might happen, it is Canada that has the most to lose.
Your passion is amazing Ill give you that. But it doesn't make your opinion more valid. Everyone knows this tournament isn't ideal. I am however extremely happy that they have decided to play more international/best on best hockey. I also know that some things are just bigger than individuals. This isn't going to ruin the integrity of the game. Does it suck for two nations yes it does. Should we cancel the tournament for them, no. Will others stand to gain from this format, yes.
Do you think you think Slovenia and Latvia would be happy if we just added Slovakia and Switzerland? By merit they finished 7th and 8th at the last best on best tournament which was only last year.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
I'm pretty sure there has literally been a representative (in most cases, several) of every single country you listed arguing against you in this thread. You obviously realize this, so why lie?
We know why it's this way, thanks. We know it exactly. However, no amount of "help" from you will make some people agree with it. And they're not wrong in the slightest if they don't.
When you say ridiculous things like "Finland likes it but is afraid that the all-star teams will beat them" is very belittling. It implies that some Finns are not really upset about the format itself, but insecure about their chances. Which is laughable armchair psychology and is not buying you any credibility, especially if your aim is to "help" people, and not troll them.
It's also belittling when you say you don't consider these gimmick teams a title candidate. It may be the correct conclusion, but when it comes with the assumption that their inclusion doesn't matter because they're insignificant to begin with, it crosses to the zone of unnecessary arrogance. So yeah, sorry if I have hard time buying your self-insisted "civilness". Or, okay, civil you may be, but some serious manners you lack.
And this is what you fail to grasp. Without actually gauging for people's opinions, you parrot the company line, stating how this will somehow be good for larger amount of people.
No, the writing is very clearly on the wall, if you just bothered to read it. Team Leftovers is not making any Slovenians or Latvians "happy". At least no more happy than they already are with Kopitar playing for the Kings or Girgesons playing for the Sabres. For someone who claims to know the tradition, one should be more aware of the fact that hockey is a team sport. So if you want to make them happy, you give 'em teams of their own, not fractions of one. There is no positive response to this thing here in Europe. How you even have the gall to argue that from your very far-off point of view with people actually living in Europe does not paint you as very smart.
The truth is, people here in Europe are no happier with these gimmick teams as they would have been with Slovakia and Switzerland in. At worst, the response has been open hostility. At best, indifference.
Right now, the NHL's message to these countries basically is, "we don't really consider you hockey nations worth noting like those others, but thought it would be nice to acknowledge you somehow". And you're seriously thinking that these people should just be "oh giddy, giddy, nice"? Those polite enough will respond in the vein of, "gee, thanks... I guess". And others can't really ignore the insult hidden underneath it all.
C'mon, rub those cells together. Insisting the net response will be positive is a delusion.
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Second chance? They lived and played for years in leftoverland to even get that opportunity?
What prestige does an invitational preseason tournament exactly have? We'll see. The rest kind of sounds like Fifa-reasoning, also known as nice words to mask a cash grab.
It was tongue in cheek, my very next post said I didn't honestly believe it.
OK now I see why your so upset. Its not necisarily anything to do with the tournament its that I suggested the teams involved aren't really "strong title contender". They are not and that will not be debated but I do apologies for not expressing that in a more aproachable manner for you to read. I agree it may have come off poorly, that was me at my hottest. You have flat out called me names and made me to feel my opinion is worthless so it really doesn't compare. Im stating this simply in hopes you might realize the folly of your own actions as well.
More people will watch
So you are telling me that Latvia, not only doesn't claim that 7 or 8 spot but they are pissed any of their players will be invited to play?
Serious question would you rather a 6 team tournament?
If you would than that sums it up for me. Don't get me wrong I want countries to participate. In leiu of arbitrarily picking two teams to fill the 7 and 8 spots they tried to include more superstars. Superstars being what the whole brand of hockey is sold on, the reason people are in their seats. They decided to include more of those players. Sorry but its a half decent alternative until we can figure out a qualifying round and in no way is this arrogence but the likes of Slovakia and Swiss and Latvia and whomever else of those lower teams do not have any more right to it then the next team, nor do they draw any kind of significant amount of the viewership or revenue, so don't act like it is their right or I can always play devils advocate and see if we can get India a team.
Remember don't attack me. Attack the points I make if you disagree.
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It's an opportunity to play against the world's best players while the whole hockey world is watching.
As bad as Fifa are, there can be no denying they put on a fabulous sporting spectacle and in the annuls of history it is the biggest stage for a footballer. Did it compremise the integrity that Diego Costa played for Spain, Owen Hargreaves played for England, Camronesi played for Italy or that Half the German team were born in Poland or Turkey no. The players still want to show there stuff on the world stage. Its a matter of personal pride and legacy.
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Slovenia came 7th and Latvia came 8th at the Olympics so why are you talking about Slovakia and Swiss?
Point is the IIHF rankings are a joke, the NHL and PA know that better than anyone. Canada is ranked 4th for god sake. So you have Slovakia, Latvia, Swiss and Slovenia all believing they deserve a spot. How do you choose?
I had an even better idea: have all the federations pick a captain (8 players in total) and have them pick the teams, the team name and the coach. And let the team members' kids design the jerseys. It's just like the NHL All-Star game, only bigger and better!
Seriously speaking, at least that way nobody could mistake this tournament for an international best-on-best hockey event.
QnebO
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- Feb 11, 2010
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I am royally pissed at this tournament format, there is no point in denying that. So yeah, I'm far from being at my best. I can't give an earful to whoever came up with this travesty, but at least I can vent at some folks who actually think it's a good idea to defend it.
No. What I'm telling you is that the people of Latvia fully well understand why they didn't get an invite to this tournament. And while they can't be happy about it, it's nothing for them to be upset about either. At least those Latvians I've talked to know very well where they currently stand in the hockey world.
Though of course they would be happy, elated even, if Team Latvia was in this tournament. However, if Team Latvia is not in, but Zemgus Girgesons is, they couldn't care less about that. Simply because Girgesons will be playing for Team Leftovers, not for Team Latvia.
In similar manner, if Mika Zibanejad was "borrowed" to Team Finland for this tournament due to having a Finnish mom, it would NOT make anyone in Sweden cheer for Finland any more than they usually do. I'm sure the Swedish posters frequenting this thread can echo that point. If anything, they would most likely feel royally weirded out to see such a thing happen.
And trust me, some Finns would be ready to bash some heads in the hypothetical case that Barkov and Komarov didn't have room in Team Finland, and somebody suggested they should be allowed to play for Russia instead.
For the final time, and I hope you finally get this... in an event like this, seeing their players is secondary to these people. What they want to see, first and foremost, is their team. If they were, in the hope of maximizing the amount of stars in this tournament, to establish a team for every state in the USA (and cut some other teams, like Finland) and Koivu and Granlund and Haula were to get an invite, would I be cheering for "Team Minnesota"? Frick no. But if our national fed were to skip every NHLer we had and send a team of second-tier Finnish leaguers, would I cheer and live with that team every step of the way? You can bet your backside I would. I don't want as many Finnish players as possible in this tournament. What I want, Is. My. Team.
Therefore, Team Leftovers does not generate extra interest in the countries that have players involved. It doesn't generate hate either, except maybe in Slovakia and Switzerland. Bottom line - it generates nothing. Indifference.
Yes. Yes. Yes. And once more for emphasis... Yes.
And I'm fully aware that Finland would most likely in that case be the weakest team of those six, at least on paper. Yes, I'd still have it.
The main draw of an international event is the teams involved, not the players. If it's a best-on-best event, you call the six, eight, ten or twelve best countries and let said countries sort out who are the best players to be included in those teams. If you want the best players, not the best countries, that is not an international tournament. That is an all-star event.
The level of play, no matter how many stars involved, will never be the same in an all-star event than it is in a genuine international tournament.
And that, my friend, is why this tournament will never have my support. More big names may guarantee more income, like you say, but it does NOT guarantee a higher level of play. On the contrary, it will most likely detract from it, because - and I'm repeating myself here - how can anyone figure the players can take the event seriously if it includes two squads that practically scream "EXHIBITION!" in their face?
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1Gold Standard
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If the NHL can't come up with a slick marketing campaign, unmatched in the history of sports marketing, one slick enough to convince the world that this contrived nonsense is something other than a dog with fleas, then few people will be watching. b/c that's the task now in front of the NHL suits, convince the savvy hockey fan that this turd is worth watching. To me it isn't worth a second of my time. Oh, I'm going to mock and ridicule it for the full year and half...and have fun doing it...right up to puck drop.. but then I'm going to ignore the entire gong show...and most people I know (hockey fans) say the exact same thing. There is very little interest in this format. almost none.
Yes, i'm sure all of europe will stay up all night to watch the very international competition between team born-to-late and team leftovers. Especially if the NHL won't allow its players to participate in the olympics, an event the world cares a lot more about than the WHC or the NHL's more arrogant invitational version of it.
But as i said, we'll see.
Apples and oranges: We're talking about international competition here, all of these players made a choice (they can't go back after they played the first official game). Also, they still need to qualify. Its unlikely, but the brazilian Diego Costa might miss the World Cup with Spain and Brazil wins it all. He'd have to watch it on TV. There's no team of stars-from-countries-that-didnt-make-it or the-chosen-ones-of-the-corrupt-executives-nation.
Now, without the gimmick teams one could argue that the hockey WC (will they really go with that name?) at least represents the top8 hockey countries in a best on best tournament. A bit arbitral because of the invitational character (the goal of the NHL here clearly is marketing its product, i don't blame them for that), but an international competition nontheless. Less than the Olympics (because you need to qualify for that, not just have a few players playing in a certain league to get an invitation) but certainly worth watching.
Right now, it's just a money grab: The NHL's invitational preseason joke of an international tournament.
I understand using the hyperbole, but really ... half of the German team???
Of the players on the 2014 World Cup squad only 2 were not born in Germany.
Miroslav Klose was born in Poland and came to Germany at the age of 6 or 7.
Lukas Podolski also born in Poland moved to Germany with his family at the age of 2, think.
You are really comparing playing for the country you grew up in to playing for a team like the one of leftover Europeans they want to create for the World Cup?
Hammer15
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