World Cup: 2016 World Cup — Team Europe

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FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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I get your upset but from a rational point, the hockey itself will be amazing.
Yeah, unless all players involved, even those playing for their actual NTs treat it as nothing more than pointless exposition. The players will have no greater incentive to succeed here than some perfectly arbitrary bragging rights. Then the level of play in any of the games won't be much higher than in your run-of-the-mill All-Star game. Maybe by some, but it will certainly be far from the intensity players show in the olympics. Or even WHCs.

I have a feeling we're running in circles here. I've now presented this point to you a multiple times and you constantly keep ignoring it. Maybe because it's a reason actually grounded in worry about the quality of the actual package, not simply emotional "they changed it, now it sucks" response. Parroting how the mickey mouse teams are "more marketable" and draw in better crowds does NOT make this concern go away.
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
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I get your upset but from a rational point, the hockey itself will be amazing.

No its not going to be amazing. Players play more seriously in Spengler cup. No one in europe is going to watch the tournament. You seriously "rationally" think that people are going to stay up whole night to watch these exhibition games?

Tournament will be somewhere bit over spengler cup but much less imporant than annual World Championships.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
7,030
1,419
No its not going to be amazing. Players play more seriously in Spengler cup. No one in europe is going to watch the tournament. You seriously "rationally" think that people are going to stay up whole night to watch these exhibition games?
Something tells me Europe doesn't matter from his POV. All that does is that they don't have too many empty seats in Toronto.

So it's technically our fault if we do not tune into this "amazing" hockey.
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
Something tells me Europe doesn't matter from his POV. All that does is that they don't have too many empty seats in Toronto.

So it's technically our fault if we do not tune into this "amazing" hockey.

But if our people don't like it, how will our national team play.. Well, we shall let the time show how people take it.
 

1Gold Standard

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
7,924
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THe reality is more people will pay to watch the Euro stars or the U23s play then would pay to watch SLovakia or Swiss or Slovenia or Germany. The team's will have low expectations so if they don't win a game, it wont be a big deal but if they do win a few games it'll be a great storyline. So from that perspective it really can't be a failure. People who act like the whole tournament is ruined and that the hockey will all be garbage are speaking from a much too emotional state. I get your upset but from a rational point, the hockey itself will be amazing.

And you know this how? sounds to me like you're just guessing, wishing and hoping...My guess is that few people will pay to watch the contrived gimmicky teams, and that the level of hockey won't be anywhere near the level you expect it to be. And that evaluation is as equally valid as yours.

I'm going to do nothing except mock and ridicule this tournament right up until puck drop. (and have fun doing it) and then I'm just going to ignore the whole gimmicky affair.
 

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,828
2,711
Toronto
I think Slovakia will certainly have a chance of boycotting. Swiss borderline, but Slovakia has way too much pride and history in this game to accept this treatment.

The NHL could still assemble a decent team sans Slovakia, there are enough NHLers remaining. I think there's just enough if the Swiss pull out too: 19 forwards, 3 defensemen and Andersen, Greiss and Zepp backstopping their goal. Passable if you can find 3 additional D-men somewhere.

Why would they boycott? Wasn't this done to appease the NHLPA so that more players would have an opportunity to participate in this tournament?
 

Tomas W

Registered User
Oct 23, 2007
7,097
489
Sweden
Here's my roster for the Europe team:

Gaborik-Kopitar-Tatar
Hossa-Grabovski-Vanek
Boedker-Nielsen-Zuccarello
Grabner-Girgensons-Eller
Neiderreiter/Roussel

Chara-Josi
Seidenberg-Ehrhoff
Sekera-Streit
Holzer

Andersen
Halak
Hiller

Several of the veteran Slovaks will be 'injured', more than likely.
 

Johnsie19

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
2,561
363
No its not going to be amazing. Players play more seriously in Spengler cup. No one in europe is going to watch the tournament. You seriously "rationally" think that people are going to stay up whole night to watch these exhibition games?

Tournament will be somewhere bit over spengler cup but much less imporant than annual World Championships.

You are exagerating.

You are also suggesting that other countries who are not directly effected ie Finland will be somehow so bothered they wont put forth their best effort? I will have to believe that when I see it. Every hockey nation is proud and especially Finland who are known for their hard work and gritty play.

The only difference is two teams, if you had it your way Slovakia and Swiis, who finished 9th and 10th at the olympics, are replaced by two teams with more skill. Neither group will have expected to finish in the medals so I don't see how it will effect the bigger countries, they would have never considered those teams a big threat anyway (no offense just an honest opinion, and no it doesn't mean I don't respect developing or lesser teams).

Lastly yes many more North Americans will watch a U23 vs Finland game than a Swiss Finland game. I would also suspect more Latvian, Slovenians, Germans, Belarussian, Canadians and Americans will watch Team euro vs Sweden than Slovakia vs Sweden, the latter two countries simply due to the intrigue of the team and its high skill level.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
7,030
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You are also suggesting that other countries who are not directly effected ie Finland will be somehow so bothered they wont put forth their best effort? I will have to believe that when I see it. Every hockey nation is proud and especially Finland who are known for their hard work and gritty play.
Two things. Both in fact discussed on these boards.

First, a few days ago they asked about the format from Jere Lehtinen, Team Finland's GM, and Kari Jalonen, our head coach. They basically railed against it as boldly as they could, their comments seeping with thinly veiled sarcasm. And Jalonen was close to cracking laughter at the end.

Second, just yesterday they asked Mikko Koivu, our NT captain, about the tournament. He was a bit more cordial, but still was quoted to say that "while World Cup is nice and all*, it has nothing going against the olympics".

*Which may or may not have been lip service.


Our GM, and our friggin' head coach think the tournament is a joke. Our captain doesn't seem to think it's got plenty of prestige. Yeah, keep telling us how we exaggerate or it's simply emotions talking when we worry that the hockey won't be as high level as Bettman and some other mindless shills hope it would be.

[Mod]
 
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TheTwelfth

Registered User
Jan 6, 2014
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The Tardis
Two things. Both in fact discussed on these boards.

First, a few days ago they asked about the format from Jere Lehtinen, Team Finland's GM, and Kari Jalonen, our head coach. They basically railed against it as boldly as they could, their comments seeping with thinly veiled sarcasm. And Jalonen was close to cracking laughter at the end.

Second, just yesterday they asked Mikko Koivu, our NT captain, about the tournament. He was a bit more cordial, but still was quoted to say that "while World Cup is nice and all*, it has nothing going against the olympics".

*Which may or may not have been lip service.


Our GM, and our friggin' head coach think the tournament is a joke. Our captain doesn't seem to think it's got plenty of prestige. Yeah, keep telling us how we exaggerate or it's simply emotions talking when we worry that the hockey won't be as high level as Bettman and some other mindless shills hope it would be.

[Mod]

I'll echo this by saying that Henrik Lundqvist have been a strong champion for Olympic participation, its role for the growth of hockey and the pride in playing during the tournament for many years now. I don't think there is a single Swedish player that would put the World cup in the same stratosphere as the Olympics.

Our coach has been more cowardly than the Finnish ditto, but he now revealed that he will not coach after his contract runs out in the spring of 2016 (after the WHC), so maybe he just doesn't feel like pissing in the drink of his successor.
 
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Pominville Knows

Registered User
Sep 28, 2012
4,477
334
Down Under
I dont understand what everyone is so on about? The U23 team will have a lot of motivation since firstly: They're young and just wants to play hockey. Second: They want to beat the worlds best.
The players of the European All-Stars gets a chance to win the whole thing which certainly will be an upgrade, and they still could do it for the fans at home cheering for those players.
This will be a TRUE World Cup, with ALL the best players present(In contention), even Kopitar. Besides, the top-6 NATIONS will still be there.
 
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Johnsie19

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
2,561
363
Two things. Both in fact discussed on these boards.

First, a few days ago they asked about the format from Jere Lehtinen, Team Finland's GM, and Kari Jalonen, our head coach. They basically railed against it as boldly as they could, their comments seeping with thinly veiled sarcasm. And Jalonen was close to cracking laughter at the end.

Second, just yesterday they asked Mikko Koivu, our NT captain, about the tournament. He was a bit more cordial, but still was quoted to say that "while World Cup is nice and all*, it has nothing going against the olympics".

*Which may or may not have been lip service.


Our GM, and our friggin' head coach think the tournament is a joke. Our captain doesn't seem to think it's got plenty of prestige. Yeah, keep telling us how we exaggerate or it's simply emotions talking when we worry that the hockey won't be as high level as Bettman and some other mindless shills hope it would be.

[Mod]

Whether or not it has the prestige of the Olympics really isn't the point. I will concede that it isn't as prestigous (although there are many non hockey reasons for this) but having said that I don't think it will be any less difficult to win.

Whether or not you agree with the concept of the tournament I don't see anyone except maybe team euro not going all out to win (though I still hold out hope theyll put their best effore forth but I am being told on here they won't which is pretty sad to think). Just because Finland doesn't maybe like the concept, depending on how you read into those quotes, I still think they will put their best team in and try their best to win it, just like every other country. Why wouldn't they?

You said something like "no one is going to stay up all night to watch the games" thats why I said you exagerate.
 

Jakk123

Registered User
May 6, 2014
1,280
111
Bratislava
I dont understand what everyone is so on about? The U23 team will have a lot of motivation since firstly: They're young and just wants to play hockey. Second: They want to beat the worlds best.
The players of the European All-Stars gets a chance to win the whole thing which certainly will be an upgrade, and they still could do it for the fans at home cheering for those players.
This will be a TRUE World Cup, with ALL the best players present(In contention), even Kopitar. Besides, the top-6 NATIONS will still be there.

Are you sure that Canadian U23 guys want to beat Canada? Are you sure that US U23 guys want to beat USA?
 

xxxx

Registered User
Sep 20, 2012
5,480
0
Are you sure that Canadian U23 guys want to beat Canada? Are you sure that US U23 guys want to beat USA?

I won't be surprised if the NA U-23 team is put in the "european group", and the Europe All-Star team in the group with US and Canada, it makes sense.

A - Canada, USA, Czechs, Europe AS
B - Sweden, Russia, Finland, U-23
 

ulvvf

Registered User
May 9, 2014
2,744
150
I dont understand what everyone is so on about? The U23 team will have a lot of motivation since firstly: They're young and just wants to play hockey. Second: They want to beat the worlds best.
The players of the European All-Stars gets a chance to win the whole thing which certainly will be an upgrade, and they still could do it for the fans at home cheering for those players.
This will be a TRUE World Cup, with ALL the best players present(In contention), even Kopitar. Besides, the top-6 NATIONS will still be there.

In the next world cup in football I want to see Africa all stars, and a europe U23 team, that will help them increase their chances of winning and make it so more of the best will play, because that is all what national sport is all about, stock players from different nations in the same team.

Brazil and Germany will still be there, so it has some normal countries as well, so why should anyone complain about this?
 

xxxx

Registered User
Sep 20, 2012
5,480
0
I dont understand what everyone is so on about? The U23 team will have a lot of motivation since firstly: They're young and just wants to play hockey. Second: They want to beat the worlds best.
The players of the European All-Stars gets a chance to win the whole thing which certainly will be an upgrade, and they still could do it for the fans at home cheering for those players.
This will be a TRUE World Cup, with ALL the best players present(In contention), even Kopitar. Besides, the top-6 NATIONS will still be there.

I agree and I can also agree with Johnsie19 that watching those two all star teams will be at least as interesting as watching Slovakia or Switzerland, if not more. I guess we will see.
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
7,030
1,419
Whether or not you agree with the concept of the tournament I don't see anyone except maybe team euro not going all out to win (though I still hold out hope theyll put their best effore forth but I am being told on here they won't which is pretty sad to think). Just because Finland doesn't maybe like the concept, depending on how you read into those quotes, I still think they will put their best team in and try their best to win it, just like every other country. Why wouldn't they?
I've been following hockey since early 90s. And in all that time, I've never heard any players or team staff here in Finland treat any event that involves the national team with anything but open enthusiasm. Even if it was a practice game against opponent three tiers below them, they'd call it "a great opportunity" or something like that. It's lip service, but still different than openly railing against it.

However, here... you have players giving half-hearted comments. A coach who puts up a lackluster effort, if barely any at all, to hide his disdain. It's unheard of. While I'm somewhat pleased that they share my feelings about it, I'm also in bit of a shock. Because at the same time, they're not supposed to do that. And that instills even greater sense of worry in me. I'm just a fan, so I'm allowed to speak my mind, sometimes even in very over-the-top manner. But to have a member of the team staff, or a player likely to be in this event, present question... it's a signal that things are not even as bad as I think they are. No, they're worse.

You said something like "no one is going to stay up all night to watch the games" thats why I said you exagerate.
Wasn't me who said that. Actually, I think there is a fairly good chance some people will stay up and watch. But simply because there is another event - the Olympics in Rio - so close. Their internal clocks will still be somewhat tuned into those, so if they're up, they might as well watch. But yeah, there will hardly be people who bother to tweak their schedules because of this specifically. Though from the POV of the broadcasters, that will naturally be same difference.
 
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Canuckistani

Registered User
Mar 15, 2014
1,627
171
Toronto
This will be a TRUE World Cup, with ALL the best players present(In contention), even Kopitar. Besides, the top-6 NATIONS will still be there.

It will be the farthest thing from a true world cup that has ever been produced.

Two of the teams will be representing absolutely nothing, Canada and USA will be denied their youngest stars, and the European squads will be fully aware that the event is a joke.

Hopefully it flops in a big way so that the vermin in the NHL head office never seek to vandalize the international game again.
 
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Canuckistani

Registered User
Mar 15, 2014
1,627
171
Toronto
I won't be surprised if the NA U-23 team is put in the "european group", and the Europe All-Star team in the group with US and Canada, it makes sense.

That would be the sensible thing to do so that the poor kids will at least be saved the indignation of playing against their own country.

But seeing how all things sensible have been banned from the world cup, you can be sure it'll be:

Group A - Canada, USA, Russia, kiddies
Group B - Sweden, Finland, Czech, leftovers
 

Tomas W

Registered User
Oct 23, 2007
7,097
489
Sweden
I dont understand what everyone is so on about? The U23 team will have a lot of motivation since firstly: They're young and just wants to play hockey. Second: They want to beat the worlds best.
The players of the European All-Stars gets a chance to win the whole thing which certainly will be an upgrade, and they still could do it for the fans at home cheering for those players.
This will be a TRUE World Cup, with ALL the best players present(In contention), even Kopitar. Besides, the top-6 NATIONS will still be there.

Then why not just make it another ASG? Since the point of competing is to have "all the stars" on the ice?
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
I agree and I can also agree with Johnsie19 that watching those two all star teams will be at least as interesting as watching Slovakia or Switzerland, if not more. I guess we will see.

Are Canadians allowed to think like that? :sarcasm:

It's the World Cup of Hockey, one would guess Canadians wouldn't like to see there being mambo jambo teams.
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
People have alot of friends from around europe in europe, including Finland and Sweden (and other hockey areas). When the hockey fans are with their foreign friends, they aren't proud to present "This is the World Cup of our sport. We have Canadian-USA u23 team vs MamboJambo Europe going on".
 

Johnsie19

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
2,561
363
I've been following hockey since early 90s. And in all that time, I've never heard any players or team staff here in Finland treat any event that involves the national team with anything but open enthusiasm. Even if it was a practice game against opponent three tiers below them, they'd call it "a great opportunity" or something like that. It's lip service, but still different than openly railing against it.

However, here... you have players giving half-hearted comments. A coach who puts up a lackluster effort, if barely any at all, to hide his disdain. It's unheard of. While I'm somewhat pleased that they share my feelings about it, I'm also in bit of a shock. Because at the same time, they're not supposed to do that. And that instills even greater sense of worry in me. I'm just a fan, so I'm allowed to speak my mind, sometimes even in very over-the-top manner. But to have a member of the team staff, or a player likely to be in this event, present question... it's a signal that things are not even as bad as I think they are. No, they're worse.

Can you send me a link to those quotes ?
 

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
7,030
1,419
Can you send me a link to those quotes ?
I'm not too sure if they're going to be helpful to you since all was said in Finnish, but the comments from coach Kari Jalonen and GM Jere Lehtinen are discussed here, and Mikko Koivu's commentary is here - with links to sources. Guess you could try Google Translate on them or something.
 
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