2016 Summer Transfer Discussion Part V - Deadline Edition

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Isco and Meyer Spurs have been busy today. It's gonna be a good derby this year with Arsenal having Hummels and rues.

 

[bluesfan94]

Isco and Meyer Spurs have been busy today. It's gonna be a good derby this year with Arsenal having Hummels and rues.

Spurs do need to make some signings. They've only brought in Wanyama and Janssen and have sold Mason, Bentaleb, Chadli, and Yedlin and apparently want to sell Son

 

[Dabest]

Spurs do need to make some signings. They've only brought in Wanyama and Janssen and have sold Mason, Bentaleb, Chadli, and Yedlin and apparently want to sell Son

They rejected a bid from Wolfsburg, and it seems like he won't be moving anymore

 

[bluesfan94]

They rejected a bid from Wolfsburg, and it seems like he won't be moving anymore

Or the bid just wasn't large enough. Too soon to know.

 

[Cassano]

 

[Dabest]

Or the bid just wasn't large enough. Too soon to know.

Spurs need to sign not sell.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Would really not decline David Luiz back at Chelsea.

 

[Power Man]

 

[Jeffrey]

And Brahimi to Everton look also possible.

All Algerians to the EPL.

 

[The Abusement Park]

35mil for Slimani? Damn, I mean he's a good striker but still.

 

[Dabest]

Is Nkoudou to Spurs official?

 

[Live in the Now]

A lot wrong with this post. The difference between central defenders in a 4 man back line and 3 man back line is minimal. In my opinion, a lot of reputable center backs who play in a 4 man back line are better suited to a role in a 3 man back line. Mustafi and Sokratis for example.

3 man defenses have a lot more use than cracking the 4-4-2, which Leicester by the way used to great success last year and more and more teams probably will use in imitation of them. They are generally superior to 4 man defenses in possession due to their better access to the half spaces from the first line of attack, and can also be very effective against 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1. See how much del Bosque's Spain always struggled against 3 man back lines.

I don't see many teams copycatting Leicester because their resources are allocated so much differently. It also isn't in vogue to play long ball football.

Okay, now how does the three man defense work for Tottenham?

Vertonghen fits as the left central defender, but the other two positions would have serious questions in possession. Playing a three man defense also forces Lamela away from his best position wide right, and he's not smart enough to play the wing back position and track back enough that deep. I also think that to some degree your wing backs in that formation need to attack well enough to justify playing it and with Kane up top, it's in question how exactly he would play in that system.

The reason it doesn't work in England is because their development is not geared towards nurturing the talents required for their players and especially for defenders to utilize it. It's also difficult for big teams to justify spending their resources on it given how much acquiring center backs is like playing the lottery. It works at national team level because those resources aren't required and it works for Juve because they have three of the best in the world.

It's a great formation when used right, but United and Liverpool couldn't get it to work even though they spent a ton on defenders. Conte also hasn't used it yet with Chelsea and I don't think their parts are well fitting either.

 

[bluesfan94]

I don't know enough to say this definitively, but I could see Arsenal in a 3-1-4-2:

Sanchez - Giroud/Perez
Gibbs - Özil - Cazorla - Bellerin
Xhaka
Mustafi - Koscielny - Gabriel
Cech
​

Not sure which CBs would go where or if Holding would be better. I don't hate this in theory.

 

[cgf]

Schalke won't sell this late in the window.

Which CBs fit best where is influenced heavily by how a team builds. For some teams they'll want the better passing CBs in the outside spots to take advantage of the half spaces to better support the build up into the midfield; while for others they'll want their best passing CB in the middle for the ball to cycle back through. With Xhaka playing behind Mesut - Santi you'd probably want Mustafi in the middle with two CBs who can play the ball on each side of him.

I don't see many teams copycatting Leicester because their resources are allocated so much differently. It also isn't in vogue to play long ball football.

Okay, now how does the three man defense work for Tottenham?

Vertonghen fits as the left central defender, but the other two positions would have serious questions in possession. Playing a three man defense also forces Lamela away from his best position wide right, and he's not smart enough to play the wing back position and track back enough that deep. I also think that to some degree your wing backs in that formation need to attack well enough to justify playing it and with Kane up top, it's in question how exactly he would play in that system.

The reason it doesn't work in England is because their development is not geared towards nurturing the talents required for their players and especially for defenders to utilize it. It's also difficult for big teams to justify spending their resources on it given how much acquiring center backs is like playing the lottery. It works at national team level because those resources aren't required and it works for Juve because they have three of the best in the world.

It's a great formation when used right, but United and Liverpool couldn't get it to work even though they spent a ton on defenders. Conte also hasn't used it yet with Chelsea and I don't think their parts are well fitting either.

I don't see what's unclear. Alderweireld should work nicely on the right; but if his passing is insufficient to play through that halfspace, then he could move into the middle with Dier shifting to the right. Davies - Wimmer - Wanyama as the back ups.

As for Lamela, I don't see why he shouldn't thrive playing through the channels off of Kane/Janssen; plus this would allow Eriksen to be more consistently influential, playing as a 10, and it would get the most of Son when he came on for Lamela.

It failing when poorly executed doesn't mean it can't work. Neither does Conte having crap at CB to work with. Tottenham however has the pieces & the coach to make it work; though another midfielder & CB wouldn't hurt.

Kane/Janssen - Lamela/Son
Rose - Dembele/Dier - Alli/Dier - Walker
Vertonghen - Dier/Wimmer - Alderweireld
Lloris​

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I thought the whole point of signing Mustafi was so that Gabriel wouldn't be a regular starter.

Signing Meyer would be a very good signing for Spurs.

 

[S E P H]

Konoplyanka is a damn good player, rumoured that Arsenal wanted him, but like as we've seen before, we let a good one go.

Curious what is up with the Son situation? Didn't Spurs buy him like last winter? Why sell him now, playing time? Whatever the case is, I always came impressed by him, underrated talented player IMO. Not good in the final third, but very good in the build up play.

Huge LOL to Chelsea wanting to buy Luiz back, whatever the case, it makes them weaker with this mop hair free kick *********.

And if Arsenal sell Gnarby, I am going to be mega pissed. Like MEGA pissed off.

I thought the whole point of signing Mustafi was so that Gabriel wouldn't be a regular starter.

Signing Meyer would be a very good signing for Spurs.

Mustafi signing is so we don't have to watch ****in' Mertesacker start, that's even worse than Gabriel.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Schalke won't sell this late in the window.

Which CBs fit best where is influenced heavily by how a team builds. For some teams they'll want the better passing CBs in the outside spots to take advantage of the half spaces to better support the build up into the midfield; while for others they'll want their best passing CB in the middle for the ball to cycle back through. With Xhaka playing behind Mesut - Santi you'd probably want Mustafi in the middle with two CBs who can play the ball on each side of him.



I don't see what's unclear. Alderweireld should work nicely on the right; but if his passing is insufficient to play through that halfspace, then he could move into the middle with Dier shifting to the right. Davies - Wimmer - Wanyama as the back ups.

As for Lamela, I don't see why he shouldn't thrive playing through the channels off of Kane/Janssen; plus this would allow Eriksen to be more consistently influential, playing as a 10, and it would get the most of Son when he came on for Lamela.

It failing when poorly executed doesn't mean it can't work. Neither does Conte having crap at CB to work with. Tottenham however has the pieces & the coach to make it work; though another midfielder & CB wouldn't hurt.

You are forgetting about Carter-Vickers who has been making the squad each week early on this season ahead of Wimmer. I think Wimmer's been injured and thats why he's not been making the squad, but Pochettino says he's fit, and he just prefers Carter-Vickers right now. I think Spurs best central defender partnership is Wimmer and Alderweireld. Vertonghen's overrated, but I doubt he'll be dropped anytime soon.

I think a Spurs three man back line would be Davies on the left, and then Vertonghen and Alderweireld in the center and right. Dier is not a good central defender. He's best as a central midfielder. They'd likely have Rose and Walker as the midfielders or wing backs depending on whether its a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, a Dier and Dembele CM combination, and some combination of Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Lamela for the other three spots. I don't think it works. They do well with a four man back line, and they probably have the best four man back line in the Premier League.

 

[cgf]

The difference between the 6 and CB with a back three is different to the difference between those positions in a back 4. That's why Sven Bender, Nordveit, and Strobl were able to thrive as CBs in a back three after being underwhelming as CBs in a back 4. With the third man in back the CBs have more freedom and are handed a larger role in the build up.

I did totally forget about Carter-Vickers.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah, and then Vertonghen gets hurt as he's done numerous times and the whole formation has to be scrapped. There's no reason for Spurs to play a three man defense. Their best 11 players are clearly Lloris, Rose, Vertonghen, Alder, Walker, Dier, Dembele, Alli, Lamela, Eriksen, and Kane. These players do not fit in a three man back line IMO, and they conceded the least goals in the league last season with a four man back line.

Some decent arguments as to why other teams should use it though.

 

[les Habs]

That's a lot of posts dedicated to Sakho.

LOL at the Luiz rumor. Crazy if that happens.

Reading that Chelsea are looking to get Rodriguez on loan. I'd be shocked if that happened and I'd be surprised if both Isco and Rodriguez left without somebody else coming in.

Read a crazy rumor about Cavani possibly going back to Napoli with PSG making a last minute bid for Benzema if that happens. Can't see either team doing that though, especially Madrid.

Unbelievable signing, watch out this guy explode in Bundesliga, what stupid asset management by Sevilla

Is it though? If two managers don't rate him enough to be a starter then what do you do? I'm sure he wasn't on low wages either considering he came on a free and Sevilla surely have a budget to work within. With that sort of situation it's a tough call, but the manager is to blame so tough to call out the club.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Schalke won't sell this late in the window.

Which CBs fit best where is influenced heavily by how a team builds. For some teams they'll want the better passing CBs in the outside spots to take advantage of the half spaces to better support the build up into the midfield; while for others they'll want their best passing CB in the middle for the ball to cycle back through. With Xhaka playing behind Mesut - Santi you'd probably want Mustafi in the middle with two CBs who can play the ball on each side of him.



I don't see what's unclear. Alderweireld should work nicely on the right; but if his passing is insufficient to play through that halfspace, then he could move into the middle with Dier shifting to the right. Davies - Wimmer - Wanyama as the back ups.

As for Lamela, I don't see why he shouldn't thrive playing through the channels off of Kane/Janssen; plus this would allow Eriksen to be more consistently influential, playing as a 10, and it would get the most of Son when he came on for Lamela.

It failing when poorly executed doesn't mean it can't work. Neither does Conte having crap at CB to work with. Tottenham however has the pieces & the coach to make it work; though another midfielder & CB wouldn't hurt.

Kane/Janssen - Lamela/Son
Rose - Dembele/Dier - Alli/Dier - Walker
Vertonghen - Dier/Wimmer - Alderweireld
Lloris​

Only 10 players in that formation; I think you're missing Eriksen.
Kane
Eriksen - Lamela
Davies - Dembele - Alli - Walker
Vertonghen - Dier - Alderweireld
Lloris

Yeah, and then Vertonghen gets hurt as he's done numerous times and the whole formation has to be scrapped. There's no reason for Spurs to play a three man defense. Their best 11 players are clearly Lloris, Rose, Vertonghen, Alder, Walker, Dier, Dembele, Alli, Lamela, Eriksen, and Kane. These players do not fit in a three man back line IMO, and they conceded the least goals in the league last season with a four man back line.

Some decent arguments as to why other teams should use it though.

Davies is good in a three man back line and plays in it very well for Wales.

 

[YNWA14]

Not sure why people are referring to Rodgers' change to a 3 man backline as a failure, especially in his last full season. He pretty much salvaged the season by switching to that formation -- the only thing missing was finishing. If he had forwards capable of putting the ball in the net they'd have finished top 4 that season (Sterling was especially bad). Keep in mind when he switched to the 3-4-3 they became one of the best defensive teams and went on a 13 game unbeaten run (winning 10 of them). The late season collapse was more about the circus going on at the time than the formation, too.

 

[Live in the Now]

Not sure why people are referring to Rodgers' change to a 3 man backline as a failure, especially in his last full season. He pretty much salvaged the season by switching to that formation -- the only thing missing was finishing. If he had forwards capable of putting the ball in the net they'd have finished top 4 that season (Sterling was especially bad). Keep in mind when he switched to the 3-4-3 they became one of the best defensive teams and went on a 13 game unbeaten run (winning 10 of them). The late season collapse was more about the circus going on at the time than the formation, too.

They gave up 48 goals in the end and completely collapsed defensively against the top sides. We didn't have the personnel to play it and players like Can got extremely exposed in the end. Once the defensive frailties were re-exposed I don't remember them creating anything either.

 

[cgf]

Damn you're right:

Kane/Janssen/N'jie - Lamela/Son/N'jie
Eriksen/Lamela/Alli
Rose/Davies - Dembele/Wanyama - Alli/Dier - Walker/Trippier
Vertonghen/Davies - Dier/Wimmer/CCV - Alderweireld/Dier
Lloris​