2016 Draft Thread | 7

[Icebreakers]

Mcleod is too high I think. Struggling at the u18. I know he had 2 goals today but 9-1 vs switzerland.. and 1 point in 4 games prior to that game. Tool set is there, but too much of a question mark to take ahead of Chychrun imo if you think whose more likely to be a contributor at the NHL lvl. Chychrun will have his defensive lapses but hes still going to play big minutes at the NHL lvl. Maybe he will turn out to be an Edler or Jovo but thats still an excellent dman.

Juolevi, I know you dont like his upside but 19 is a bit too low.

Id put Keller and Chychrun ahead of Mcleod. Put Juolevi around 12 or so.

The others is fine.

 

[Luck 6]

Just ran the simulator for the first time in a while and had such a strange result.. outrage followed by joy..

1. Bruins
2. Canucks
3. Habs

I did the same. Been a week.

1) Flames
2) Coyotes
3) Canucks

 

[ahmon]

Jost now with 14 pts to lead u18, Keller is 2nd with 10 pts.

 

[Nuckles]

Mcleod is too high I think. Struggling at the u18. I know he had 2 goals today but 9-1 vs switzerland.. and 1 point in 4 games prior to that game. Tool set is there, but too much of a question mark to take ahead of Chychrun imo if you think whose more likely to be a contributor at the NHL lvl. Chychrun will have his defensive lapses but hes still going to play big minutes at the NHL lvl. Maybe he will turn out to be an Edler or Jovo but thats still an excellent dman.

Juolevi, I know you dont like his upside but 19 is a bit too low.

Id put Keller and Chychrun ahead of Mcleod. Put Juolevi around 12 or so.

The others is fine.

I agree with most of these points.

I just haven't been high on McLeod most of the year, I think his offensive game is overrated. He's probably near ~14th overall on my list.

Also, I think some people may weigh a bit too heavily on a single tournament. If a player has a really good or really bad tournament that is a bit out of character from how they've performed most of the year, it won't make a huge impact on me (though yes, it will influence my opinion of them in some way).

 

[Bitz and Bites]

Jost now with 14 pts to lead u18, Keller is 2nd with 10 pts.

Like another poster said earlier,Jost has really shown that he can excel playing against better competition.I think he'll be a top 10 pick now.
There's such a strong group of forwards this year and all the top rated D-men have big question marks.I'm super relived that our D situation turned around so quickly this year and we can get a really good forward without having to take a risky D prospect due to positional need.

 

[Shareefruck]

Honestly, I'm starting to think Chychrun in our spot would be a mistake, and I'm buying into the Jost hype. I love the full package he brings.

1. Matthews
2. Laine
3. Puljajarvi
4. Dubois
5. Tkachuk
6. Jost
7. Juolevi
8. Chychrun
9. Nylander
10. Bean
11. Sergachev
12. McLeod

I know people scoff at these knee-jerk trends, but I can't deny that that's how I feel right now.

 

[thefeebster]

Jost rocketing up to 6? Chychrun dropping to 9? Yee-haw!

From my admittedly-uneducated POV, Jost and Boeser are mirror-images of each other, stylistically - they both possess that slipperiness and great vision to get into soft ice and scoring areas. It's fitting that Boeser is a RW and Jost is a LW. And both can take on limited face-off responsibility.

Like my note mentioned, i don't think Jost has rocketed for me so much, he was already in my top 10 pre-tournament, around 8-9.

Jost is a C, but has played wing a bit IIRC, but i see him as a C in the future. He's good on draws, high hockey IQ and good vision with the ability to distribute well.

Everywhere. jk.

Good list! Right off the bat, I like that you have McLeod in the top10. Most people don't right now, and I think that's a mistake... but of course I could be wrong.

Next, I like the McAvoy ranking -- I have had him on my radar very early in the season. Always liked him (check my post history). Very well rounded, right shot, size, skating and now production.

Why Nylander over Keller?

Bean is much lower on your list than he is on mine, but I understand the concerns you have with this game. Wild Card defender.

Like Kunin and Bellows.

Your more stark rankings are with Juolevi and Gauthier. Can you explain the latter?

Still really like McLeod, as a top 6 C, with tools to be maybe a 1b-ish C. Kesler had concerns about his offensive game at the draft, but prospects and young players can continue to improve and i think McLeod can improve on his weaknesses. His production is tough to explain, some say he can't think the game fast enough. Every time i watch Missy, he generates a ton of chances, a lot of shots, while competing hard in all zones. His shot can be improved, but his work ethic and motor is 2nd to none in this draft. I think he has the determination to grow into the player i think he can become.

Nylander over Keller: as superficial as it sounds, 3-4 inches. Although some disagree, i think Keller looks smaller than his listing. Keller does have that boyish look about him, so maybe there is still some growing left to do. And i think Nylander has one of the best shots in the draft, lethal one timer and can score from anywhere.

Yeah, the Bean/Juolevi/Gauthier rankings are the outlier opinions. Even when Gauthier went on his hot streak early in the season, there are definitely aspects of his game i disliked. I posted about it in the prospects forum, but not many agreed. Ppl said he is hardworking and tenacious, but i don't see that. I find him very inconsistent in his effort, shift to shift. I also don't find him to be that smart defensively and does not seem to see the ice that well. A lot of his assists do not show strong vision or even average playmaking ability from what i saw. If he isn't scoring, i don't think he really helps you much.

Mcleod is too high I think. Struggling at the u18. I know he had 2 goals today but 9-1 vs switzerland.. and 1 point in 4 games prior to that game. Tool set is there, but too much of a question mark to take ahead of Chychrun imo if you think whose more likely to be a contributor at the NHL lvl. Chychrun will have his defensive lapses but hes still going to play big minutes at the NHL lvl. Maybe he will turn out to be an Edler or Jovo but thats still an excellent dman.

Juolevi, I know you dont like his upside but 19 is a bit too low.

Id put Keller and Chychrun ahead of Mcleod. Put Juolevi around 12 or so.

The others is fine.

The reason why i dropped the top defenders was the uncertainty of their development and forwards ahead of them are easier to read. All along i have said that i think Chychrun has the potential to be a #1 and the greatest likelihood of the top defenders to get there. That's why he is still my #1 defender in this draft and i will still argue that with anyone. But there are still questions if he can reach that level. But i still think McLeod can become a top 6 C, who can play in all situations. That is also very valuable. But i get the concerns regarding McLeod.

Hmmm, i don't think Juolevi should be around 12, i like all the forwards and their potential ahead of him. I also like Fabbro more, smarter game than Juolevi and better shot. Bean has high high potential and an offensive game that Juolevi can't touch. But this is a rather outlier opinion.

 

[docbenton]

Like my note mentioned, i don't think Jost has rocketed for me so much, he was already in my top 10 pre-tournament, around 8-9.

Jost is a C, but has played wing a bit IIRC, but i see him as a C in the future. He's good on draws, high hockey IQ and good vision with the ability to distribute well.

Still really like McLeod, as a top 6 C, with tools to be maybe a 1b-ish C. Kesler had concerns about his offensive game at the draft, but prospects and young players can continue to improve and i think McLeod can improve on his weaknesses. His production is tough to explain, some say he can't think the game fast enough. Every time i watch Missy, he generates a ton of chances, a lot of shots, while competing hard in all zones. His shot can be improved, but his work ethic and motor is 2nd to none in this draft. I think he has the determination to grow into the player i think he can become.

Nylander over Keller: as superficial as it sounds, 3-4 inches. Although some disagree, i think Keller looks smaller than his listing. Keller does have that boyish look about him, so maybe there is still some growing left to do. And i think Nylander has one of the best shots in the draft, lethal one timer and can score from anywhere.

Yeah, the Bean/Juolevi/Gauthier rankings are the outlier opinions. Even when Gauthier went on his hot streak early in the season, there are definitely aspects of his game i disliked. I posted about it in the prospects forum, but not many agreed. Ppl said he is hardworking and tenacious, but i don't see that. I find him very inconsistent in his effort, shift to shift. I also don't find him to be that smart defensively and does not seem to see the ice that well. A lot of his assists do not show strong vision or even average playmaking ability from what i saw. If he isn't scoring, i don't think he really helps you much.

The reason why i dropped the top defenders was the uncertainty of their development and forwards ahead of them are easier to read. All along i have said that i think Chychrun has the potential to be a #1 and the greatest likelihood of the top defenders to get there. That's why he is still my #1 defender in this draft and i will still argue that with anyone. But there are still questions if he can reach that level. But i still think McLeod can become a top 6 C, who can play in all situations. That is also very valuable. But i get the concerns regarding McLeod.

Hmmm, i don't think Juolevi should be around 12, i like all the forwards and their potential ahead of him. I also like Fabbro more, smarter game than Juolevi and better shot. Bean has high high potential and an offensive game that Juolevi can't touch. But this is a rather outlier opinion.

I wouldn't have Fabbro over Juolevi, Juolevi looked as good at the U20s half a season ago, you can't forget that. I still think he is the smarter and quicker player. Fabbro probably does have a better shot but I have doubts about his quickness, both skating and decision making. He also gives up 2 inches to Juolevi and isn't very strong at all. I currently have Juolevi as the top defenseman, not so much because he's risen but because the other guys have incurred enough doubt for them to drop. There's also a natural grace to his play that is fun to watch.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Would you lose your **** if Benning went off the board and picked Jost at 4? I think I might be ok with that. He looks like a stud.

Id be a little shocked at first but after a few hours I think I'd come around on it. They'd obviously have to view him as a true number 1 center and the past two drafts have been successful so you'd have to trust them a little bit. We'd also get to see Boeser and Jost form some chemsitry at North Dakota

 

[ahmon]

My top 10:

Top 6 stays the same.

Matthews
Laine
Pulu
Tkachuk
Keller
Dubois
Jost
Juolevi
Fabbro
Nylander

 

[thefeebster]

I wouldn't have Fabbro over Juolevi, Juolevi looked as good at the U20s half a season ago, you can't forget that. I still think he is the smarter and quicker player. Fabbro probably does have a better shot but I have doubts about his quickness, both skating and decision making. He also gives up 2 inches to Juolevi and isn't very strong at all. I currently have Juolevi as the top defenseman, not so much because he's risen but because the other guys have incurred enough doubt for them to drop. There's also a natural grace to his play that is fun to watch.

I'm not forgetting the WJC. I don't think he was as integral to Finland's success as some say he was. I've mentioned this before, months ago.

Fabbro's decision making is just as quick as Juolevi's IMO. Skating, yes, Juolevi's a more nimble and smoother skater. Juolevi isn't strong either, i would say equivalent in strength, despite the 2 inch difference.

The way i see it:
Fabbro wins on offensive/PP ability, shot, and i see the safer and smarter defensive player.

They push on passing ability, vision, physical strength and their ability to handle larger forwards and a heavy forecheck.

Juolevi wins at skating ability, 2 inches in height and reach.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Still really like McLeod, as a top 6 C, with tools to be maybe a 1b-ish C. Kesler had concerns about his offensive game at the draft, but prospects and young players can continue to improve and i think McLeod can improve on his weaknesses. His production is tough to explain, some say he can't think the game fast enough. Every time i watch Missy, he generates a ton of chances, a lot of shots, while competing hard in all zones. His shot can be improved, but his work ethic and motor is 2nd to none in this draft. I think he has the determination to grow into the player i think he can become.

Agreed. This is a pick that is made with post-draft development in mind. He has the personality that never relents. He will be a factor at the NHL level. If not right away, eventually.

I see a top6 C as well, and I know what you are talking about with regards to his play: He really should have more points based on his play. I don't understand it myself. The kid does everything.

I've heard Vermette comparisons - which if taken statistically, still results in a 2C. Obviously, I think he has higher upside.

Nylander over Keller: as superficial as it sounds, 3-4 inches. Although some disagree, i think Keller looks smaller than his listing. Keller does have that boyish look about him, so maybe there is still some growing left to do. And i think Nylander has one of the best shots in the draft, lethal one timer and can score from anywhere.

I have Keller over Nylander, but just barely. I recognize that Nylander has the 'safer' projection due to height, but I find Nylander's height largely irrelevant to his game. He's a skill player that plays in spaces. Keller seems get into the fray more, and is better away from the puck, IMO. That's why I went with him.

Yeah, the Bean/Juolevi/Gauthier rankings are the outlier opinions. Even when Gauthier went on his hot streak early in the season, there are definitely aspects of his game i disliked. I posted about it in the prospects forum, but not many agreed. Ppl said he is hardworking and tenacious, but i don't see that. I find him very inconsistent in his effort, shift to shift. I also don't find him to be that smart defensively and does not seem to see the ice that well. A lot of his assists do not show strong vision or even average playmaking ability from what i saw. If he isn't scoring, i don't think he really helps you much.

I saw that inconsistency with Gauthier as well.

Bean is where I think our opinions diverge. I often considered ranking him as the #2 Dman, right behind Chychrun. His offensive skillset, less his skating, is high end. The concern is that he tops out as only a top4 Dman due to his defensive positioning and lack of strength. High risk, potentially very high reward. He was definitely a factor for his team (3rd leading scorer) as well.

 

[VasilyHoglander]

I dont want to sound like a hater but most of bean's "moves" wont work on NHL players. Im not a fan of his skating as well and dont really like his defensive game just my 2 cents

 

[Bleach Clean]

My top 10:

Top 6 stays the same.

Matthews
Laine
Pulu
Tkachuk
Keller
Dubois
Jost
Juolevi
Fabbro
Nylander

No Chychrun?

Also, could you elaborate as to why you have Tkachuk ahead of Dubois? Just curious.

I like that Fabbro ranking, though he is not in my top10 (edit: right on the cusp), I get it. He's a very balanced selection.

I dont want to sound like a hater but most of bean's "moves" wont work on NHL players. Im not a fan of his skating as well and dont really like his defensive game just my 2 cents

The skating is my main concern with Bean. It seems he has to beat opponents with his smarts and creativity instead of his physical tools, and that can limit him definitely.

 

[ahmon]

No Chychrun?

Also, could you elaborate as to why you have Tkachuk ahead of Dubois? Just curious.

I like that Fabbro ranking, though he is not in my top10, I get it. He's a very balanced selection.





The skating is my main concern with Bean. It seems he has to beat opponents with his smarts and creativity instead of his physical tools, and that can limit him definitely.

1. No Chychrun because mainly at times his decision making is suspect. Does he have high upside? certainly.

His physical tools are very good and he even at time flashes good-great hockey sense.

But I've already stated that I prefer selecting forwards over dmen in the 1st round (more projectable). And when you factor how I feel about Chychrun's decision making - at times - it makes him a very high risk/high reward pick.

He's certainly next in line after top 10.

2. Tkachuk over Dubois because I feel Tkachuk has a higher offensive "upside" than Dubois.

Dubois has a larger body/frame and is more well-rounded, but I feel Tkachuk displays much better "touch" around the net in terms of seeing the ice and distributing the puck. Puck follows him, it shows high end hockey sense.

Both guy competes hard, Dubois even more likely a physical force, but Tkachuk does have an agitating element to him.

Basically IMO tkachuk is slightly more skilled, but dubois is bigger (and by no means is tkachuk small), I lean towards the more skilled.

3. Actually both Fabbro/Jost I've been hesitant to rank because of the obvious concern of "quality" of competition in the BCHL.

But when you see them play this well against the other top u18s, the fear that they were "only" feasting on weak competition slowly subsides.

 

[Mr Plow]

What don't you guys like about Bean's skating? Agility,* balance, edging, acceleration, top speed, etc? I've never really seen an issue with it.

Also, that's a great list Feebster! The two guys I have significantly higher are Bean and Jones, while the one guy everyone except me seems to love is Sergachev.

Just curious but why do you have Jones so much lower than guys like Kunin and Bellows? I think Jones is the biggest game breaker of the three and with his size, skating and physicality he'll always give defenses trouble, even if his offense doesn't get there. Is it just an attitude thing with him, because I do see a bit of "Kassian potential", or is there something with his game that you don't like?

 

[ginner classic]

No Chychrun?

Also, could you elaborate as to why you have Tkachuk ahead of Dubois? Just curious.

I like that Fabbro ranking, though he is not in my top10 (edit: right on the cusp), I get it. He's a very balanced selection.





The skating is my main concern with Bean. It seems he has to beat opponents with his smarts and creativity instead of his physical tools, and that can limit him definitely.

What's the concern with Bean's skating? Seems pretty good to me.

 

[Bleach Clean]

What don't you guys like about Bean's skating? Agility,* balance, edging, acceleration, top speed, etc? I've never really seen an issue with it.

What's the concern with Bean's skating? Seems
pretty good to me.

Bean's skating is not explosive (acceleration) nor is it very fast at top speed. Agility is good. He can change direction pretty well in tight quarters, like the PP. To me, it's strength related. He would be faster with power in his legs. It's not his technique.

 

[alicia]

1. Matthews
2. Laine
3. Puljujarvi
4. Tkachuk
5. Dubois
6. Juolevi
7. Chychrun
8. Jost
9. Nylander
10. Bean

 

[thefeebster]

Just curious but why do you have Jones so much lower than guys like Kunin and Bellows? I think Jones is the biggest game breaker of the three and with his size, skating and physicality he'll always give defenses trouble, even if his offense doesn't get there. Is it just an attitude thing with him, because I do see a bit of "Kassian potential", or is there something with his game that you don't like?

I am not too sure about the bolded, there is a "if" attached to that statement. I think Bellows/Kunin have higher offensive potential than Jones. Jones is the more rare package of having size/skill/physical play/speed, similar to the upside of Virtanen. If either put it all together, they become that rare power forward sniper that every team covets. Both have their question marks, but both should have a solid floor in the NHL, IMO.

Jones' biggest issue is his inconsistency. When he is on, he can dominate. But there are games where he doesn't do much. This sort of reminds me of Kassian. Jones also has questionable decision making, in terms of emotion. He takes many poorly timed penalties and goes overboard, its unbelievably frustrating and sometimes selfish. More often then not, it costs the team. I also found he had difficulty meshing with other players' style (besides Pu) and i think this is one of the reasons why he had such difficulty at the beginning of the season. He likes to carry the puck himself and take it to the net a lot of the time, plays in direct lines, north and south, doesn't mesh with everyone's style. I think he can be smarter with the puck sometimes.

 

[WTG]

Bean's speed isn't even that bad.

It's probably as fast as Tanev's. This is a kid who has barely played 2 seasons in the WHL and already set a record for goals scored as a defensemen as a 17 year old for the Hitmen. You don't end up scoring 2nd most goals and 3rd most points as a defensemen if you have slow skating. It's average at worst. Sure if you compare him to a guy like Chychrun his skating would be considered "slower" doesn't mean he is slow. Also, if you watch Bean play he is incredibly lanky. He looks like a player that can really grow into his frame.

Even last year I thought he was better then Sanheim. Even if he doesn't become that #1 duncan keith player I still have him as a puck transitional Hutton type player.

 

[GPNuck]

Puljujarvi is obviously playing injured.. Just 2 games played and 2 points so far in the U18's. Jost has cracked my top 6. I hope Benning has taken notice of him..

 

[Red]

Personally:

1. Matthews
2. Laine
3. Puljujarvi
4. Chychrun
5. Dubois
6. Tkachuk
7. Juolevi
8. Nylander
9. Sergachev
10. Jost
11. McLeod
12. Bean
13. Bellows
14. Keller
15. Gauthier
16. McAvoy
17. Fabbro
18. Jones
19. Kunin
20. Brown

 

[ginner classic]

Bean's speed isn't even that bad.

It's probably as fast as Tanev's. This is a kid who has barely played 2 seasons in the WHL and already set a record for goals scored as a defensemen as a 17 year old for the Hitmen. You don't end up scoring 2nd most goals and 3rd most points as a defensemen if you have slow skating. It's average at worst. Sure if you compare him to a guy like Chychrun his skating would be considered "slower" doesn't mean he is slow. Also, if you watch Bean play he is incredibly lanky. He looks like a player that can really grow into his frame.

Even last year I thought he was better then Sanheim. Even if he doesn't become that #1 duncan keith player I still have him as a puck transitional Hutton type player.

He is a plus skater in my opinion. He needs to get a lot stronger but the skating critique is off base.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

The more I think about it Keller should be our guy if we pick at six. We have power forwards and goal scorers. We need somebody to get them the puck and who's shifty and explosive. Keller can find guys in prime scoring areas better than anyone in the draft. He's the best playmaker in it. Boeser and him would dominate. He's got Kane in him.

Top 10
Mathews
Laine
Puljujarvi
Tkachuk
Dubois
Keller
Jost
Nylander
Juolevi
Fabro