2016 Draft Thread | 7

[iFan]

can i ask how you came to that conclusion? i have jost rocketing up my list after the u18's since i haven't seem him play 1 game prior, but for me tkachuk is on another level. Remember that tkachuk had 12 points at the under18's last year and 11points at the WJC this year. feel like tkachuk gets downplayed a lot because of marner like strome last year with mcjesus

tkachuk has been a star player everywhere he has been i wouldnt be passing on him at for any forward besides the big 3 and perhaps PLD depending on ranking (havent seen much of PLD).

In jost i see a strong skater, smart positional player with good puck skills. what i dont see is an elusive player like a tyler johnson or gaudreau in the offensive zone to become that dynamic scorer. He does remind me a lot of pavelski though which is probably why i liked his game so much at the u18s he can really do everything.

not trying to be confrontational but its good to see what other people are noticing in a player so i can look for that as well.

Tkachuk is not small but think he can play that game in the NHL with much bigger players? That's a tough spot he plays and doing it at the NHL is much different than in the OHL. I'm not against him but there are questions about his game at the next level.

 

[docbenton]

Tkachuk is not small but think he can play that game in the NHL with much bigger players? That's a tough spot he plays and doing it at the NHL is much different than in the OHL. I'm not against him but there are questions about his game at the next level.

I've never understood this argument. Big strong players in junior will likely become big strong players in the NHL, just like small weak players will likely remain so in the NHL. Tkachuk has the strength and balance to be effective around the net at the next level.

 

[donut]

can i ask how you came to that conclusion? i have jost rocketing up my list after the u18's since i haven't seem him play 1 game prior, but for me tkachuk is on another level. Remember that tkachuk had 12 points at the under18's last year and 11points at the WJC this year. feel like tkachuk gets downplayed a lot because of marner like strome last year with mcjesus

tkachuk has been a star player everywhere he has been i wouldnt be passing on him at for any forward besides the big 3 and perhaps PLD depending on ranking (havent seen much of PLD).

In jost i see a strong skater, smart positional player with good puck skills. what i dont see is an elusive player like a tyler johnson or gaudreau in the offensive zone to become that dynamic scorer. He does remind me a lot of pavelski though which is probably why i liked his game so much at the u18s he can really do everything.

not trying to be confrontational but its good to see what other people are noticing in a player so i can look for that as well.

Couple reason why I like Jost over Tkachuk:

I've never been able to jump on the Tkachuk-hype train and I'm very hesitant whether or not his game will transition to the next level. Jost on the other hand, I feel he has the smarts and skating ability to play in the pros; I'm also a homer of European/college players as I feel they're more developed and exposed to players similar to the pros. In my eyes, I see Tkachuk being a mid-6 winger at the NHL level while I see Jost being a low-end 1c/high-end 2c. With a high draft pick this year, I prefer taking the college-bound centre Jost rather than a winger in Tkachuk.

Not a huge write up since I'm on my phone but hope this answers your question

 

[CanaFan]

I've never understood this argument. Big strong players in junior will likely become big strong players in the NHL, just like small weak players will likely remain so in the NHL. Tkachuk has the strength and balance to be effective around the net at the next level.

Agree with this. It's always the same argument. Fast players won't be as fast against NHL skaters. Physical players won't be able to manhandle NHL sized defenders. Elite shooters won't be able to beat NHL goalies as easily.

Like, is this supposed to be insight?

Ya Tkachuk won't have the same physical and skill advantages in the NHL as in junior. But he also won't be expected to score 107 points in 57 games either. So while those advantages 'shrink' for pretty much every junior player ever, they don't disappear completely.

It's a bad argument unless you think the player thrived on a style or with a skill set that specifically will get exposed at the NHL level (ie. Hodgson's one-way game caused by his below average skating meant NHL coaches couldn't feed him the massive minutes he got in junior).

 

[iFan]

Agree with this. It's always the same argument. Fast players won't be as fast against NHL skaters. Physical players won't be able to manhandle NHL sized defenders. Elite shooters won't be able to beat NHL goalies as easily.

Like, is this supposed to be insight?

Ya Tkachuk won't have the same physical and skill advantages in the NHL as in junior. But he also won't be expected to score 107 points in 57 games either. So while those advantages 'shrink' for pretty much every junior player ever, they don't disappear completely.

It's a bad argument unless you think the player thrived on a style or with a skill set that specifically will get exposed at the NHL level (ie. Hodgson's one-way game caused by his below average skating meant NHL coaches couldn't feed him the massive minutes he got in junior).

Hodgson was one of the top defensive forwards in the OHL, in his OHL days he wasn't a one way player, he was looked at as a safe pick.

 

[CanaFan]

Hodgson was one of the top defensive forwards in the OHL, in his OHL days he wasn't a one way player, he was looked at as a safe pick.

Yes I know. He's an example of a player whose junior game *didnt* translate to the NHL because of a specific weakness/limitation. While his skating was "good enough" to be a fairly dominant junior player, it was not good enough to do the same at the NHL level. Which is different from pointing to a great junior skater and saying he won't have as great an advantage once he faces NHL-quality skaters.

One is an advantage in junior that diminishes at the next level but is still a plus-trait. This applies to the 6'1 Tkachuk.

The other is a "not disadvantage" in junior that becomes a liability at the next level. This applies to the stumpy-legged Hodgson.

 

[Icebreakers]

I think its pretty easy to project Tkachuk in the NHL. Likely a 55 point ish forward in the mold of Landeskog/ Hartnell.

Wouldnt be upset with him at all.

 

[ahmon]

I think its pretty easy to project Tkachuk in the NHL. Likely a 55 point ish forward in the mold of Landeskog/ Hartnell.

Wouldnt be upset with him at all.

Tkachuk is showing even more upside than either, IMO.

If we have #4, I lean towards Tkachuk for sure.

 

[ginner classic]

Tkachuk is showing even more upside than either, IMO.

If we have #4, I lean towards Tkachuk for sure.

He's a decent player. His game will certaonly translate and I have just as many concerns about Dubois scoring in the NHL but I'll take the flexibility of a centerman in Dubois.

 

[Nick Lang]

Beware the Ides of Jost!

 

[Love]

Tkachuk strikes me as much more of a C based on play style than Dubois. I realize Dubois actually plays C sometimes and Tkachuk doesn't, but I've always wondered why Tkachuk hasn't been tried at C.

 

[VanJack]

Regardless of what happens in the lottery, Canucks will draft no worse than 6th in the First Round, and then again at#33 and #63.....hopefully they'll get three decent prospects....still burns my butt that Jimbo wasn't able to turn either Hamhuis or Vrbata into more picks.

 

[NucksRuleYep]

Looks like the Vancouver Canucks organization (the same group who said they didn't want to *tank*) have now fully embraced the tank and the prospect of a high draft pick, because they are using it to sell tickets. I keep seeing this ad banner all over the web. When you click on it, it sends you to their season membership tickets website. You would never see the Calgary Flames running an ad like this... Brian Burke said he is embarrassed just to be involved in the lottery because it means the Flames suck but I am glad our ownership is on board. Something tells me this won't be the last year we tank.

Funny how it doesn't say what that "NEXT CHAPTER" will be. Like when they promised us "CHANGE IS COMING"... yes, change did come... see, the promises are becoming more open ended.

 

[CanaFan]

Looks like the Vancouver Canucks organization (the same group who said they didn't want to *tank*) have now fully embraced the tank and the prospect of a high draft pick, because they are using it to sell tickets. I keep seeing this ad banner all over the web. When you click on it, it sends you to their season membership tickets website. You would never see the Calgary Flames running an ad like this... Brian Burke said he is embarrassed just to be involved in the lottery because it means the Flames suck but I am glad our ownership is on board. Something tells me this won't be the last year we tank.

Funny how it doesn't say what that "NEXT CHAPTER" will be. Like when they promised us "CHANGE IS COMING"... yes, change did come... see, the promises are becoming more open ended.

Well it'd be pretty stupid not to market the shiny side of this tire fire. There's not much sense to being embarrassed about or ignoring the fact that you're in the lottery (a la Burkie). I mean, you're in it either way, might as well use it to sell tickets in whatever way you can.

 

[donut]

Regardless of what happens in the lottery, Canucks will draft no worse than 6th in the First Round, and then again at#33 and #63.....hopefully they'll get three decent prospects....still burns my butt that Jimbo wasn't able to turn either Hamhuis or Vrbata into more picks.

Basically this at this point. The lottery and draft need to come sooner! I need me some Laine, Bean and Debrincat

 

[Mr Plow]

Beware the Ides of Jost!

I think he'll be gone by 15

On a more serious note, I'm not sure exactly what people are seeing in Brown to put him in the top 10. Everything about his game outside of his size seems more or less average. Maybe he'll be a good possession player at the next level but to me he plays slow and methodical. I don't see top 10 pick potential.

I don't even know if I would want him at center in the NHL. Sure he can make quick little plays but I don't think he plays with enough urgency and battle to control the middle of the ice. Would be curious to know what those who have seen more of him make of his game/potential.

 

[Shareefruck]

Looks like the Vancouver Canucks organization (the same group who said they didn't want to *tank*) have now fully embraced the tank and the prospect of a high draft pick, because they are using it to sell tickets. I keep seeing this ad banner all over the web. When you click on it, it sends you to their season membership tickets website. You would never see the Calgary Flames running an ad like this... Brian Burke said he is embarrassed just to be involved in the lottery because it means the Flames suck but I am glad our ownership is on board. Something tells me this won't be the last year we tank.

Funny how it doesn't say what that "NEXT CHAPTER" will be. Like when they promised us "CHANGE IS COMING"... yes, change did come... see, the promises are becoming more open ended.

Nothing about that ad (or either of those slogans) suggests that they're not going to just keep trying to compete and push for the playoffs every year.

 

[DFAC]

Regardless of what happens in the lottery, Canucks will draft no worse than 6th in the First Round, and then again at#33 and #63.....hopefully they'll get three decent prospects....still burns my butt that Jimbo wasn't able to turn either Hamhuis or Vrbata into more picks.

Agreed with this 100%. Vrbata and Hamhuis walking this summer for nothing is a total blunder on management's behalf.

Vrbata is as good as gone and I have a feeling Hammer won't be back come October

Either way we'll still get a great prospects but could be so much more..

 

[God]

Yes I know. He's an example of a player whose junior game *didnt* translate to the NHL because of a specific weakness/limitation. While his skating was "good enough" to be a fairly dominant junior player, it was not good enough to do the same at the NHL level. Which is different from pointing to a great junior skater and saying he won't have as great an advantage once he faces NHL-quality skaters.

One is an advantage in junior that diminishes at the next level but is still a plus-trait. This applies to the 6'1 Tkachuk.

The other is a "not disadvantage" in junior that becomes a liability at the next level. This applies to the stumpy-legged Hodgson.

Hodgson's biggest weakness wasn't his skating, but his attitude. Players can overcome poor skating (e.g. Bryan Little), but a piss poor attitude gets you nowhere.

Agree otherwise, in the case of someone like Zach Hamill.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Hodgson's biggest weakness wasn't his skating, but his attitude. Players can overcome poor skating (e.g. Bryan Little), but a piss poor attitude gets you nowhere.

Agree otherwise, in the case of someone like Zach Hamill.

Uhhh.. no. His biggest weakness was skating and strength. People with poor attitudes can skate and can be strong.

 

[coastal_nuck]

Uhhh.. no. His biggest weakness was skating and strength. People with poor attitudes can skate and can be strong.

But people who have weaknesses don't overcome them if they have a poor attitude. That's his argument.

 

[banme*]

Funny how it doesn't say what that "NEXT CHAPTER" will be. Like when they promised us "CHANGE IS COMING"... yes, change did come... see, the promises are becoming more open ended.

The next chapter is their next 1st rounder, they don't know who that is yet.

 

[racerjoe]

This is soooo true. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a hidden hockey forum that secretly excludes Leaf and Canuck fans!

All I could think of was the simpsons...

 

[Gaunce4gm]

I'm ok with Tkachuk in the 4,5,6 spot but I don't care who we take between him and Dubois if the top 3 are gone. I don't get the worries people have about size and strength translating from CHL to NHL. I mean we've all seen Virtanen... Like him as a player or not, you can't denied he Rag Dolled he Jr kids and then came up and Rag Dolled all the big boys

 

[Cupless44]

Agree with this. It's always the same argument. Fast players won't be as fast against NHL skaters. Physical players won't be able to manhandle NHL sized defenders. Elite shooters won't be able to beat NHL goalies as easily.

Like, is this supposed to be insight?

Ya Tkachuk won't have the same physical and skill advantages in the NHL as in junior. But he also won't be expected to score 107 points in 57 games either. So while those advantages 'shrink' for pretty much every junior player ever, they don't disappear completely.

It's a bad argument unless you think the player thrived on a style or with a skill set that specifically will get exposed at the NHL level (ie. Hodgson's one-way game caused by his below average skating meant NHL coaches couldn't feed him the massive minutes he got in junior).

He will also be more developed and stronger at 22 than he is now at 18. Great bloodlines, great leadership and advice from his father, one of the elite power forwards of all time.