Speculation: 2016 Deadline Sellapaloza Thread | 2/29 3PM | (Proposals, Blog Rumors, etc. here)

[EspenK]

The team isn't going to intentionally lose. The players won't do it; Torts won't do it and I sincerely doubt JD/JK would do it. The team hasn't had a good season. I for one hope they continue to do miserably just because and as a result get a high draft choice. Not intentionally lose just lose more often than they win.

Do I believe adding Matthews or one of the Finns make us an instant contender? No but I believe they make us a better team sooner than adding Nylander or Juolevi or the like. I'd rather take my chances of a high pick by finishing last rather than finishing 7th and maybe wind up picking 10th.

This team needs a few pieces one of which could come from a top 3 pick. Rooting for another miraculous finish is foolish in my opinion. If you didn't learn last year that it means nothing other than a lower draft pick then I give up.

The cap is a serious issue that has to be dealt with. My best solution is to trade Tyutin (or buy him out if necessary)and somehow get rid of Campbell and Boll. Trade Hartnell only if the return is immediate help which I don't think will happen. Making such moves will improve the team by allowing enough cap to sign Jones and Murray to fairly priced 6 year deals thereby reducing cap pressures going forward as well as give a good deal to Jenner. Itis not tanking it is smart asset management.

I don't believe anyone here is suggesting this team tank. I do think a few are a bit over zealous in who and how many they think should be traded but they do so because they don't see the team becoming a true contender until a major change occurs. I disagree but hey this collection of players doesn't have a record to suggest they're wrong.

 

[Mayor Bee]

And I suppose we were also run by a moron in 2012?

And how are we doing now, for that matter?

No, my point is that those teams didn't win (despite drafting terrific players at the top) because they were run by morons.

Atlanta had an unquestioned franchise player in Ilya Kovalchuk, plus another in Heatley (who was traded for Hossa), and made the playoffs one time because there were gaping holes all over the roster.

Colorado drafted some nice players, and haven't turned a corner because the fools in charge of the team over the last decade don't have any idea what they're doing.

Edmonton has done the same, and about the only person who does know anything still lives in Columbus.

Los Angeles drafted Doughty high and turned around pretty quickly. Part of it was Doughty's play, a big part of it was that their young talent matured and there became an injection of a lot of actual NHL talent at all positions. Tampa Bay got Stamkos, went through a lot of turmoil in a very short period of time, and then broke through as contenders when their young talent became actual solid NHL players.

Atlanta continuously drafted high and didn't improve because the fool they had running the team was convinced that if you closed your eyes and wished hard enough, you could become a contender with a top defensive pairing of Greg de Vries and Niclas Havelid.

 

[db2011]

The team isn't going to intentionally lose. The players won't do it; Torts won't do it and I sincerely doubt JD/JK would do it. The team hasn't had a good season. I for one hope they continue to do miserably just because and as a result get a high draft choice. Not intentionally lose just lose more often than they win.

Do I believe adding Matthews or one of the Finns make us an instant contender? No but I believe they make us a better team sooner than adding Nylander or Juolevi or the like. I'd rather take my chances of a high pick by finishing last rather than finishing 7th and maybe wind up picking 10th.

This team needs a few pieces one of which could come from a top 3 pick. Rooting for another miraculous finish is foolish in my opinion. If you didn't learn last year that it means nothing other than a lower draft pick then I give up.

The cap is a serious issue that has to be dealt with. My best solution is to trade Tyutin (or buy him out if necessary)and somehow get rid of Campbell and Boll. Trade Hartnell only if the return is immediate help which I don't think will happen. Making such moves will improve the team by allowing enough cap to sign Jones and Murray to fairly priced 6 year deals thereby reducing cap pressures going forward as well as give a good deal to Jenner. Itis not tanking it is smart asset management.

I don't believe anyone here is suggesting this team tank. I do think a few are a bit over zealous in who and how many they think should be traded but they do so because they don't see the team becoming a true contender until a major change occurs. I disagree but hey this collection of players doesn't have a record to suggest they're wrong.

How would you define tanking? To me, it's always been about playing ****** in a given season. Which, may not actually happen.

How is "tanking" applied over off-seasons and across multiple seasons? It doesn't often make sense to go after the best FAs out there- does that mean a bad team not trying to get better in the off-season, but rather trying to save money to strategically approach signings/contract extensions is "tanking"?

I've never (EVER) been an advocate of knowingly playing into the basement (in a given season) in an attempt to secure a high draft pick.

But I do understand approaching a given season at the outset with the understanding that "this won't be our year", but this year's struggles are accounted for in a our long-term outlook

 

[Mayor Bee]

Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if Jarmo were to make a move for Mikko Rantanen of the Avalanche.. Former 1st round, top 10 pick. He's playing in the AHL right now and there's no words for how dominant he's been. 39 points in 30 games, +26... He's from Finland too so there's always that Finnish connection with Jarmo. Also important to note that the Jackets are desperately thin at Right Wing. Avs have been scouting the Jackets at least once a week it seems according to Portzline's tweets.

I can't see a scenario where Colorado parts with Rantanen, unless they get a hell of a lot in return. And by "a hell of a lot", probably two of the top six forwards as a starting point.

 

[blahblah]

Is this the trade deadline thread and where are the mods?

 

[EspenK]

How would you define tanking? To me, it's always been about playing ****** in a given season. Which, may not actually happen.

How is "tanking" applied over off-seasons and across multiple seasons? It doesn't often make sense to go after the best FAs out there- does that mean a bad team not trying to get better in the off-season, but rather trying to save money to strategically approach signings/contract extensions is "tanking"?

I've never (EVER) been an advocate of knowingly playing into the basement (in a given season) in an attempt to secure a high draft pick.

But I do understand approaching a given season at the outset with the understanding that "this won't be our year", but this year's struggles are accounted for in a our long-term outlook

To me tanking means putting less than the best team out there in the hopes of losing.

As to the second bolded point I think you are referring to a situation where mgt decides the team as constructed is not working and wholesale changes are needed. I have no problem with that point of view and I don't consider it tanking.

 

[NotWendell]

To me tanking means putting less than the best team out there in the hopes of losing.

As to the second bolded point I think you are referring to a situation where mgt decides the team as constructed is not working and wholesale changes are needed. I have no problem with that point of view and I don't consider it tanking.

The problem is the young kids that we would normally play in this situation are as good as the veterans.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Huh? I don't see any reason to. No one is giving up a top 6 forward or a top 4 D for him. He's inexpensive at 3.5 for 2 more years. He's what? 26 or 27? Why do you think it makes sense?

It makes NO sense to deal Cam now short of Bryan Burke or Bougie resurfacing as a GM to deal with. Absent that I would be surprised we improve the team though I believe Cam has good market value. Cam has a sorely needed speed and skill lacking on this club. And his age and salary hit fit in well for us. Also he has responded well to Torts and I anticipate Torts coaching here for possibly several more years. .

It makes sense to deal him IF the Jackets brass thinks this is a long term project (as in, no playoffs next year either). I know Cam is only 26, and on a good contract, but his value will be no higher than it is right now. He's playing well, is playing hot, and on pace for a career year. The deal we would hypothetically get right now would be pretty good. Not to mention his return would likely be a young player or two or a draft pick, we would get salary cap space to give Jones, Murray, and Jenner. Jones and Jenner or going to get serious cash this summer from us, despite what some think. If this front office doesn't believe in the core anymore, then it makes sense to deal him because of this.

If they do believe in the core, its still something worth exploring. The team will miss his scoring and most of all his speed, but he's only got as career high of 44 points, and likely won't top it by much this year. While that is very good, I don't know if they value points as much as cap space. I think the Johansen trade is a good indicator of that.

 

[grindline]

How about trading Hartnell to Detroit for Brendan Smith and a second?

They get some grit and grease plus extra goals and clearing a roster space for a young defenseman.

We clear $2m for next season (which pays for Boone Jenner) and add an underrated 3rd pair veteran with only one year to go. This means we can ship Tyutin to whoever will take him and still maintain the vet presence on the blueline with the added bonus of having a choice of whether to trade JJ or Smith next trade deadline for more assets without stripping out the vets entirely.

Assuming we can move Tyutin to Florida/Dallas etc. with 20% retention we end up next year with the following.

Jenner-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Foligno-Wennberg-Saad
Rychel-Karlsson-Calvert
Anderson-Campbell-Clarkson/Boll/Chaput

Jones-Murray
Johnson-Savard
Prout/Goloubef/Werenski-Smith

Bob and Korpi in tandem.




Capwise:

Hartnell out = -4.75m
Bourque out = -3.33
Tyutin 80%out = -3.6m

Smith in = +2.75m

net cap space gain of c. 8.9m

Given that Murray's cap hit is already 3.5m, a bridge will not add much to the cap. A cap increase of 1.5m would allow us to bridge Jenner and Murray and still have the money for a longer term deal for Jones if management want to tie him up.

 

[EspenK]

Given that Murray's cap hit is already 3.5m, a bridge will not add much to the cap. A cap increase of 1.5m would allow us to bridge Jenner and Murray and still have the money for a longer term deal for Jones if management want to tie him up.

His cap hit is only that high if he meet all his bonus targets. His real cap hit will most likely be way below that.

As to your proposed deal meh.

 

[JacketsDavid]

AS others said tanking doesn't mean you buy a keg before each game and make the layers drink I before taking the ice.
It's about taking your medicine and not adding (or keeping) pieces to the puzzle which help in the short term.

I have no idea who is on the core of the team anymore. No idea if anyone is untradeable. Look at all offers.

But management has to evaluate the roster quickly:
1. Determine what type of team they want - I think they are stuck on whatever Torts wants since he is the new coach. But management needs to 100% decide if that are going to build a team round his style.
2. Evaluate the roster - what do you have, how long are they signed, when will they be productive (some will be now, some will b in the future, some are past their prime).
3. Determine when they want to try to win. Maybe it's 2016-17. In my mind it's 2017-18, etc.
4. Make moves to maximize that - what you need to add, when you need it, what do you need to do to get there.

That's my biggest concern is if management can over see past next season?

 

[We Want Ten]

AS others said tanking doesn't mean you buy a keg before each game and make the layers drink I before taking the ice.
It's about taking your medicine and not adding (or keeping) pieces to the puzzle which help in the short term.

I have no idea who is on the core of the team anymore. No idea if anyone is untradeable. Look at all offers.

But management has to evaluate the roster quickly:
1. Determine what type of team they want - I think they are stuck on whatever Torts wants since he is the new coach. But management needs to 100% decide if that are going to build a team round his style.
2. Evaluate the roster - what do you have, how long are they signed, when will they be productive (some will be now, some will b in the future, some are past their prime).
3. Determine when they want to try to win. Maybe it's 2016-17. In my mind it's 2017-18, etc.
4. Make moves to maximize that - what you need to add, when you need it, what do you need to do to get there.

That's my biggest concern is if management can over see past next season?

Haha this is so true its not even funny. I'd have to think the only untradeables are the ones with terrible contracts.

I'd like to see them dump Hartnell and Tyutin, but I don't think both will happen. Not this year anyways.

 

[EspenK]

Haha this is so true its not even funny. I'd have to think the only untradeables are the ones with terrible contracts.

I'd like to see them dump Hartnell and Tyutin, but I don't think both will happen. Not this year anyways.

I agree on Tyutin. Take anything for him. Just free up the roster and cap space.

Hartnell I think we need next year unless we happen to get a top 3 draft and believe the guy we get can fill his role. If we move Hartnell I think it is after the deadline and after the draft lottery at the earliest.

Other way I'd move Hartnell at the deadline is for a cost controlled young D or a guy with one year left and a lower cap hit who could fill a 2nd or 3rd line spot next year.

 

[CBJx614]

The biggest hesitation I have about trading Cam is how it affects the atmosphere in the locker room. As a fan I try to look at everything as a business so I try not to get TOO attached to any one player. But I feel like cam is well loved by many in the locker room and I wonder how that could affect things.

Packaging Cam and Hartnell might be a good solution to maximize you're return. If we can turn them into a blue chip prospect and a 1st or 2nd I would be satisfied. I understand were not making the playoffs this year and I'm tempering expectations for next season. But Jarmo has to do what is best for the longevity of this club. And I firmly believe building a solid foundation is the key to that. So if it takes another year of sucking to build a perennial contender, so be it.

 

[EDM]

For the love of Gordie Howe. Trade both Cam and Hartnell and what is left of this team's offense? Boone Jenner & Saad. That is it people. We would be a worse offensive team than we were in year one. Our problems now are on offense, not defense. And frankly, we have no clear replacements to Cam in our prospect pipeline. Milano has disappointed so far and Bork has not distinguished himself. Bittner is not even in the AHL yet. Offense, people, offense. We have to score to even play a competitive game. And getting rid of a 26 year old offensive player who is stilling rising in his game with a reasonable contract is outright STUPID.

No fans will be coming to watch us be consistently shut out or score one goal per game.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The biggest hesitation I have about trading Cam is how it affects the atmosphere in the locker room. As a fan I try to look at everything as a business so I try not to get TOO attached to any one player. But I feel like cam is well loved by many in the locker room and I wonder how that could affect things.

Packaging Cam and Hartnell might be a good solution to maximize you're return. If we can turn them into a blue chip prospect and a 1st or 2nd I would be satisfied. I understand were not making the playoffs this year and I'm tempering expectations for next season. But Jarmo has to do what is best for the longevity of this club. And I firmly believe building a solid foundation is the key to that. So if it takes another year of sucking to build a perennial contender, so be it.

Unfortunately, on teams like ours (bad) GM's tend not to care for the room and the atmosphere. Hell, even when we were decent players who were 'loved in the room' or looked up to have been shipped out. Look at MacKenzie, Letestu, Wisniewski, and Johansen as examples.

 

[We Want Ten]

I think Hartnell has to go due to age and contract.
I think we should keep Cam due to age and contract.

Cam is just an unbelievable value right now, which I get makes him a target, but we need some talent to go forward with.

Cam, Jenner, Jones, and Murray are about the only players I feel are"untradeable".*

*Pending offer particulars of course.

 

[EspenK]

Unfortunately, on teams like ours (bad) GM's tend not to care for the room and the atmosphere. Hell, even when we were decent players who were 'loved in the room' or looked up to have been shipped out. Look at MacKenzie, Letestu, Wisniewski, and Johansen as examples.

Funny though that we have been playing better after the latest departure of a dearly beloved. Puhleeeze.

And what proof do you have that Jarmo is guilty of your first statement?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Funny though that we have been playing better after the latest departure of a dearly beloved. Puhleeeze.

And what proof do you have that Jarmo is guilty of your first statement?

Yeah since all those players were on the playoff team two years ago, and we haven't been back (or close) since they've left. Sample size obviously small on Johansen, but even our current pace without him isn't a playoff team.

The proof is in the post I just posted. The room only matters to GMs and management when it wins or is young and building

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Unfortunately, on teams like ours (bad) GM's tend not to care for the room and the atmosphere. Hell, even when we were decent players who were 'loved in the room' or looked up to have been shipped out. Look at MacKenzie, Letestu, Wisniewski, and Johansen as examples.

The only player you mentioned that I'm sure Jarmo (and most of us on this board) would like a re-do on is Letestu. Wiz was traded for obvious reasons, and honestly, I do think the defense is better without him. MacKenzie was redundant at the time. Do you really think he could have saved last season? Certainly not, and if you think he would have pushed the team into contention you're delusional. And trading Johansen for Jones is a win. Must build from the back-end out.

 

[major major]

Joey was "loved in the room" or "looked up to"? Perhaps loved, but guys basically admitted that he isn't a pro after he left. I can imagine them upset about Joey's whole situation but not the trade itself.

And I don't get the idea of trading Cam for picks. When a team already has a solid young core like the Jackets do, deepening the rebuild is more injurious than helpful.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Joey was "loved in the room" or "looked up to"? Perhaps loved, but guys basically admitted that he isn't a pro after he left. I can imagine them upset about Joey's whole situation but not the trade itself.

And I don't get the idea of trading Cam for picks. When a team already has a solid young core like the Jackets do, deepening the rebuild is more injurious than helpful.

I completely agree with all of this. Moving Cam would be a mistake, even if the return is great (it'll most likely be futures, which no one knows if it will actually help this team down the road). Cam is part of the core of this group, it's not too often you find a 45-50 point scorer on a dandy of a contract that is 26 years old. He'll be right in his prime when the rest of the core begins to show they can compete/play at a high level.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The only player you mentioned that I'm sure Jarmo (and most of us on this board) would like a re-do on is Letestu. Wiz was traded for obvious reasons, and honestly, I do think the defense is better without him. MacKenzie was redundant at the time. Do you really think he could have saved last season? Certainly not, and if you think he would have pushed the team into contention you're delusional. And trading Johansen for Jones is a win. Must build from the back-end out.

I think Dmac gets us a few wins. He drove people crazy on the other team and always played with a spark. He knew how to bring the energy, this has been lacking since he's been gone. Letestu was so smart and cerebral that just having him on the team is an asset. He played everywhere, his minutes have gone to Wennberg, which is fine, but now that Johansen (and Anisimov) are gone, Wennberg keeps getting thrust higher and higher in the lineup when he's not probably ready yet. We have basically zero offense from our defense this year, a healthy Wisniewski changes that. I've spoken enough about the Johansen deal.

Now again, if all of these players are still here, are we in the playoffs? I don't know, but I don't think we'd be close to last.

 

[MAHJ71]

The biggest hesitation I have about trading Cam is how it affects the atmosphere in the locker room. As a fan I try to look at everything as a business so I try not to get TOO attached to any one player. But I feel like cam is well loved by many in the locker room and I wonder how that could affect things.

Packaging Cam and Hartnell might be a good solution to maximize you're return. If we can turn them into a blue chip prospect and a 1st or 2nd I would be satisfied. I understand were not making the playoffs this year and I'm tempering expectations for next season. But Jarmo has to do what is best for the longevity of this club. And I firmly believe building a solid foundation is the key to that. So if it takes another year of sucking to build a perennial contender, so be it.

Gee.. I sure hope that's not all we'd get or that you would be satisfied with that...

 

[major major]

I think Dmac gets us a few wins. He drove people crazy on the other team and always played with a spark. He knew how to bring the energy, this has been lacking since he's been gone. Letestu was so smart and cerebral that just having him on the team is an asset. He played everywhere, his minutes have gone to Wennberg, which is fine, but now that Johansen (and Anisimov) are gone, Wennberg keeps getting thrust higher and higher in the lineup when he's not probably ready yet. We have basically zero offense from our defense this year, a healthy Wisniewski changes that. I've spoken enough about the Johansen deal.

Now again, if all of these players are still here, are we in the playoffs? I don't know, but I don't think we'd be close to last.

A couple wins from Dmac and maybe a win from Letestu, and zero from an injured Wiz (Wiz' body breaking down is not a surprise occurrence, it's inseparable from his value as a player). Maybe you can tack on a few wins from those three for veteran composure. And Joey? We were dead last with Johansen and now we're not, so I don't see how you can argue that Joey would have helped us avoid being last, given that he was here when we were last.