Speculation: 2016 Deadline Sellapaloza Thread | 2/29 3PM | (Proposals, Blog Rumors, etc. here)

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If you'd like to read a bunch of trades that aren't going to happen, among them 3-4 deals that involve the CBJ that are total garbage, this is the link for you.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-trade-deadline-predictions-40-potential-deals/

Summary for those who don't want to give the click:

Columbus Blue Jackets
INCOMING = Magnus Paajarvi, Devin Shore, Christian Ehrhoff, Mark Fayne, Jyrki Jokipakka, Esa Lindell, Kevin Gravel, a 2016 third-round pick and a 2016 fourth-round pick

OUTGOING = Scott Hartnell, Matt Calvert, Rene Bourque, Jack Johnson and Fedor Tyutin

 

[We Want Ten]

If you'd like to read a bunch of trades that aren't going to happen, among them 3-4 deals that involve the CBJ that are total garbage, this is the link for you.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-trade-deadline-predictions-40-potential-deals/

Summary for those who don't want to give the click:

Side scroll?
Blech.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Hartnell for Fayne and a 3rd? Puke.

Also not a fan of JJ for prospects, salary cap be damned. I think JJ is very vital for this franchise to hang on to. Cheap second pairing guy for two more years while Werenski, Gavrikov, Paliotta, and Heatherington mature. That's the perfect amount of time to keep him IMO.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Movable pieces.....Hartnell, Atkinson, JJ, Foligno, Karlsson, Rychel.

Immovable pieces of something....Bourque, Boll, Campbell, Tyutin.

Hartnell has a lot of value for a team willing to take the risk on the last year or 2 of his deal. Wouldn't take much to get him.

Atkinson is hot as a firecracker and could return a lot of nice assets.

JJ is the type of dman a contender who needs a #3 or #4 might find attractive. As a #1 or #2, well, they wouldn't be a contender in the first place.

Foligno might be a "needs change of environment" type. Might require some salary retention.

Karlsson, with his recent offensive push, could be the type of depth player a contender might want.

Rychel would probably be a piece in a bigger trade.

On the not going anywheres.....

Boll. No comment necessary I would hope.

Campbell and Bork. Why would a contender want either of these two? They bring nothing to the table. Bourque's fluke playoff performance of two years ago could potentially fool a GM, but I doubt it.

Tyutin has fallen off a cliff. He has 14 SOG thru 44 games. Dramatically declining offense is a telltale sign of being finis for even a dman. Has no trading value even with 50% retention.

 

[EspenK]

Movable pieces.....Hartnell, Atkinson, JJ, Foligno, Karlsson, Rychel.

Immovable pieces of something....Bourque, Boll, Campbell, Tyutin.

Hartnell has a lot of value for a team willing to take the risk on the last year or 2 of his deal. Wouldn't take much to get him.

Atkinson is hot as a firecracker and could return a lot of nice assets.

JJ is the type of dman a contender who needs a #3 or #4 might find attractive. As a #1 or #2, well, they wouldn't be a contender in the first place.

Foligno might be a "needs change of environment" type. Might require some salary retention.

Karlsson, with his recent offensive push, could be the type of depth player a contender might want.

Rychel would probably be a piece in a bigger trade.

On the not going anywheres.....

Boll. No comment necessary I would hope.

Campbell and Bork. Why would a contender want either of these two? They bring nothing to the table. Bourque's fluke playoff performance of two years ago could potentially fool a GM, but I doubt it.

Tyutin has fallen off a cliff. He has 14 SOG thru 44 games. Dramatically declining offense is a telltale sign of being finis for even a dman. Has no trading value even with 50% retention.

I think your analysis is pretty good as far as each individual guy goes but..

I don't think contenders will return enough to make trading JJ, Cam or Hartnell at the deadline feasible. Before the draft and after the lottery possibilities.

I don't think we will have any interest in trading Karlsson at the deadline or anytime unless it involves us getting a top 3 pick or a very ready NHL prospect in return.

Foligno probably belongs in the group with JJ, et al but I am not sold on him as a long term "so glad he is a Blue Jacket" guy. I know others disagree but if a good offer of a couple of prospects and picks came along att he deadline I might be tempted but I doubt he is high on the Jackets list of guys they want to trade.

Rychel isn't going at the deadline but could be traded after the season either alone or part of a bigger deal as you suggested.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I think your analysis is pretty good as far as each individual guy goes but..

I don't think contenders will return enough to make trading JJ, Cam or Hartnell at the deadline feasible. Before the draft and after the lottery possibilities.

I eliminated your "bolds" and bolded my own

I'm thinking Hartnell's trade value peaks at the deadline. As time marches on, I see him losing value. Moving him is simply a cap clear to me.

I'm not in favor of trading any of these 3. I just think that they have good value and could be sought after commodities. JJ as a second pairing guy going forward makes sense and Atkinson would be foolish to get rid of given the loss of Johansen and Foligno's disappointing production. I don't think Hartnell will fetch much in return due to age and salary, but he certainly didn't cost much.

 

[CBJx614]

I don't think it would be wise to move JJ yet. Our D finally has some depth. JJ is finally exactly where he needs to be in the lineup. It's that god awful bottom pair gusty needs a boost.

 

[Doggy]

I know everyone here is a lot smarter than I am when it comes to hockey but why would we look to move Cam, Karlsson or Rychel? The point of trying to move Toots, Hartsy or Campbell is to make cap room for our young guys. Cam, Karlsson and Rychel are part of the "young guy" group.

I don't see the point in moving them out....there isn't anyone in the minors pressing for an NHL gig. Milano is clearly not ready and Bjorkstrand is not ready either. Moving the three young guys mentioned to make room for Chaput or Tynan would make no sense to me and nobody is giving us a star in return for any of them.

What would these guys bring in return? Assuming we are trading with a Buyer trying to make a playoff run...would you trade Rychel for a late first round pick? Would you trade Rychel for a prospect? Seems to me that's what Rychel is...a prospect (with a little NHL experience). Now you are just trading for the sake of trading. I hate those kinds of trades...they make no sense to me at all.

Buyers trade young guys with upside for immediate help. We're a Seller, these are the guys we should be holding on to. But again, you guys know way more than I do!

 

[Xoggz22]

I know everyone here is a lot smarter than I am when it comes to hockey but why would we look to move Cam, Karlsson or Rychel? The point of trying to move Toots, Hartsy or Campbell is to make cap room for our young guys. Cam, Karlsson and Rychel are part of the "young guy" group.

I don't see the point in moving them out....there isn't anyone in the minors pressing for an NHL gig. Milano is clearly not ready and Bjorkstrand is not ready either. Moving the three young guys mentioned to make room for Chaput or Tynan would make no sense to me and nobody is giving us a star in return for any of them.

What would these guys bring in return? Assuming we are trading with a Buyer trying to make a playoff run...would you trade Rychel for a late first round pick? Would you trade Rychel for a prospect? Seems to me that's what Rychel is...a prospect (with a little NHL experience). Now you are just trading for the sake of trading. I hate those kinds of trades...they make no sense to me at all.

Buyers trade young guys with upside for immediate help. We're a Seller, these are the guys we should be holding on to. But again, you guys know way more than I do!

I don't see any of them moving and not sure others Do e ither. Cam is the only one I've seen chatter on and ONLY if the return was clearly over payment. I don't see Jarmo moving young guys for picks or young guys unless it's an upgrade ore major need addressed...like in a package.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I know everyone here is a lot smarter than I am when it comes to hockey but why would we look to move Cam, Karlsson or Rychel? The point of trying to move Toots, Hartsy or Campbell is to make cap room for our young guys. Cam, Karlsson and Rychel are part of the "young guy" group.

I don't see the point in moving them out....there isn't anyone in the minors pressing for an NHL gig. Milano is clearly not ready and Bjorkstrand is not ready either. Moving the three young guys mentioned to make room for Chaput or Tynan would make no sense to me and nobody is giving us a star in return for any of them.

What would these guys bring in return? Assuming we are trading with a Buyer trying to make a playoff run...would you trade Rychel for a late first round pick? Would you trade Rychel for a prospect? Seems to me that's what Rychel is...a prospect (with a little NHL experience). Now you are just trading for the sake of trading. I hate those kinds of trades...they make no sense to me at all.

Buyers trade young guys with upside for immediate help. We're a Seller, these are the guys we should be holding on to. But again, you guys know way more than I do!

With Rychel - it sounds like it's the fear he isn't happy (he asked to be traded at some point because he wasn't on NHL roster). Again feel free to correct me (anyone) if I'm wrong on that. I don't think we're trying to move him but given his pedigree we could get some value out of him.

Atkinson would be simply selling when high. He is producing, has a club friendly contract but long-term do the CBJ see him as a top 6 winger? If not how does he fit on 3rd line? Again he's a valuable asset so we're not moving him simply to moving him, but for the right return (young blue chip prospect or #1 pick) it could happen?

I've not heard a thing about Wild Bill. I think he is what he is a 3rd or 4th line C. If someone is willing to overpay for him I'm sure we would listen but I'm not sure if there would be much of a market, and like some others he seems to be playing better under Torts.

I certainly agree than any or all of those guys could be valuable pieces in our top 3 forward lines a few years down the road - but the CBJ also have to look at what they have and may deal from position of strength/depth. I we do lack #1C. But Wenneburg is producing and he could slot into #2C shortly and then looking at others who appear to e locked in - Saad, etc. maybe the CBJ thinks they have 11 (or whatever) number of forwards who deserve top 9 minutes next season and are looking at whom can return the most in return to stock the shelves 2-3 years down the road (after a Dubi for example would be moved at some point).

 

[CBJx614]

With Rychel - it sounds like it's the fear he isn't happy (he asked to be traded at some point because he wasn't on NHL roster). Again feel free to correct me (anyone) if I'm wrong on that. I don't think we're trying to move him but given his pedigree we could get some value out of him.

Atkinson would be simply selling when high. He is producing, has a club friendly contract but long-term do the CBJ see him as a top 6 winger? If not how does he fit on 3rd line? Again he's a valuable asset so we're not moving him simply to moving him, but for the right return (young blue chip prospect or #1 pick) it could happen?

I've not heard a thing about Wild Bill. I think he is what he is a 3rd or 4th line C. If someone is willing to overpay for him I'm sure we would listen but I'm not sure if there would be much of a market, and like some others he seems to be playing better under Torts.

I certainly agree than any or all of those guys could be valuable pieces in our top 3 forward lines a few years down the road - but the CBJ also have to look at what they have and may deal from position of strength/depth. I we do lack #1C. But Wenneburg is producing and he could slot into #2C shortly and then looking at others who appear to e locked in - Saad, etc. maybe the CBJ thinks they have 11 (or whatever) number of forwards who deserve top 9 minutes next season and are looking at whom can return the most in return to stock the shelves 2-3 years down the road (after a Dubi for example would be moved at some point).

Who do you think is our #2C right now? Ito certainlynot Karlsson or Campbell.. Next year could be a pretty big one in his development path.

But as for moving anyone. I still like the idea of trying to get RNH after the lottery.

Would anyone here be opposed to using our 1st this year to try and get RNH from EDM if it's not a top 3-4 pick?

I offered 2016 1st (non lotto) and Cam Atkinson possibly a + on the mains in the RNH thread.

 

[EspenK]

I know everyone here is a lot smarter than I am when it comes to hockey but why would we look to move Cam, Karlsson or Rychel? The point of trying to move Toots, Hartsy or Campbell is to make cap room for our young guys. Cam, Karlsson and Rychel are part of the "young guy" group./QUOTE]

Have you read some (most?) of the posts?

I don't believe we will be trying to move any of the three guys you mentioned. Cam is developing nicely and the other two have big upsides and Torts seems to love Karlsson.

We have room for all the aforementioned (nod to Rimer) young guys next year. Hopefully we buy out Boll and/or Campbell at a minimum to free up cap space if we need it to sign Jones for a 6 year deal.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Who do you think is our #2C right now? Ito certainlynot Karlsson or Campbell.. Next year could be a pretty big one in his development path.

But as for moving anyone. I still like the idea of trying to get RNH after the lottery.

Would anyone here be opposed to using our 1st this year to try and get RNH from EDM if it's not a top 3-4 pick?

I offered 2016 1st (non lotto) and Cam Atkinson possibly a + on the mains in the RNH thread.

Dubi is our #1 and Wenneberg is #2. Again neither is probably suited for their role but Wenny can grow into his and the ay he's playing I feel pretty good that he'll be a solid #2C in near future.
Again I hate the labels of who is a #1C - certainly if you look at top 30 centers in league Dubi is likely not in that list but he is our #1C. And on right team and right linemates he can be ok there but I think looking down the road that is a spot we'll likely need to fill (1C).

 

[CBJx614]

Dubi is our #1 and Wenneberg is #2. Again neither is probably suited for their role but Wenny can grow into his and the ay he's playing I feel pretty good that he'll be a solid #2C in near future.
Again I hate the labels of who is a #1C - certainly if you look at top 30 centers in league Dubi is likely not in that list but he is our #1C. And on right team and right linemates he can be ok there but I think looking down the road that is a spot we'll likely need to fill (1C).

My thinking is we center by committee, much like in 2013 when we had Dubinsky-Joey-Anisimov-Letestu. No real #1 line but 3 lines of 2nd liners that can match up against any line and create mismatch problems against teams other bottom 6.
Dubinsky-RNH-Wennberg-Karlsson. That's a core for now and potentially the future.

What do people think about trading Werenski for RNH (SIMPLY GAUGING INTEREST) that shows the city and the team we want to win NOW, not 3 years from now.

 

[Fro]

i like RNH...I just do not believe he's currently a $6m player...and future cap hits will not benefit us IMO

 

[JacketsDavid]

What do people think about trading Werenski for RNH (SIMPLY GAUGING INTEREST) that shows the city and the team we want to win NOW, not 3 years from now.

It would show how short-sighted the franchise is. So I am 100% against it, but would be the type of foolish, short-sighted move the CBJ specialize in., thinking they are one player away from being competitive.

 

[EDM]

What r people talking about? Atkinson, a third liner? Cam is having a breakout season establishing himself as a 30 goal dcoring first liner. It would be insane to trade him when hus career is onthe ascent. He is what we shoukd b looking for- a gifted offensive player on a reasonable contract. He is one of the jewels Howson found with a fifth or sixth round pick.

 

[CBJx614]

It would show how short-sighted the franchise is. So I am 100% against it, but would be the type of foolish, short-sighted move the CBJ specialize in., thinking they are one player away from being competitive.

LOL wut. How would adding a 22 y/o center who is at his worst a 50-60 pt two way 2nd line center being short sighted? No one's saying that one guy it's going to make this team flip the script. But RNH has more potential than anyone else on the offense. He's been buried in a incompetent organization. On a team with an actual defense I think his offensive abilities will flourish.

It's not about adding ONE guy, it's about get THE guy that makes the team better. Maybe they're other options for cheaper, but if you want a guy who still has the room to grow, but is already established you're going to have to pay. Werenski might not even be on the team next year. If he is ithe will likely be in a 3rd pair capacity.

 

[CBJx614]

i like RNH...I just do not believe he's currently a $6m player...and future cap hits will not benefit us IMO

He's produced similar numbers as Dubinsky sinice his rookie season, and still hasn't hit his ceiling. I understand not liking him for cap reasons. But I think at the right price he without a doubt makes this team better.

Personally I'm worried about the void that Hartnell might leave..

 

[blahblah]

He's produced similar numbers as Dubinsky sinice his rookie season, and still hasn't hit his ceiling. I understand not liking him for cap reasons. But I think at the right price he without a doubt makes this team better.

I don't like him because he's playing 20 minutes a night producing like a second liner. He's never came close to top line production. He's not good at faceoffs. He hasn't show another level. This could actually be his ceiling.

I don't see any evidence to suggest that he would make us better. Is he an upgrade over Wennberg right now? Sure; but the gap isn't all that large.

 

[CBJx614]

I don't like him because he's playing 20 minutes a night producing like a second liner. He's never came close to top line production. He's not good at faceoffs. He hasn't show another level. This could actually be his ceiling.

I don't see any evidence to suggest that he would make us better. Is he an upgrade over Wennberg right now? Sure; but the gap isn't all that large.

I'll give you that, but a change of scenery might help. Playing with 3 other #1s has to be somewhat distracting for the team and players. He's never had any veteran leadership either. REAL veteran leadership. They don't have and Jenner or Dubi types, hell even Foligno types on Edmonton. So some structure might influence him as well, he is only 22.

 

[major major]

My thinking is we center by committee, much like in 2013 when we had Dubinsky-Joey-Anisimov-Letestu. No real #1 line but 3 lines of 2nd liners that can match up against any line and create mismatch problems against teams other bottom 6.
Dubinsky-RNH-Wennberg-Karlsson. That's a core for now and potentially the future.

What do people think about trading Werenski for RNH (SIMPLY GAUGING INTEREST) that shows the city and the team we want to win NOW, not 3 years from now.

Value wise that's a steal for the Jackets. Completely unproven prospect for a guy who is, at worst, a marginal first liner. It would take more work to make the salary work out. We'd have to work in Hartnell or someone.

And of course we only get to sniff that deal if the Oilers can't get a top RHD for RNH.

I don't like him because he's playing 20 minutes a night producing like a second liner. He's never came close to top line production. He's not good at faceoffs. He hasn't show another level. This could actually be his ceiling.

I don't see any evidence to suggest that he would make us better. Is he an upgrade over Wennberg right now? Sure; but the gap isn't all that large.

I'm agnostic on RNH. You might be right about this being his ceiling but normally a 22 year old on the topline cusp ends up getting there. And I don't know if you're using PROD or what but hockeyanalysis had RNH scoring at a top line rate last year, ahead of Johansen.

 

[blahblah]

I'm agnostic on RNH. You might be right about this being his ceiling but normally a 22 year old on the topline cusp ends up getting there. And I don't know if you're using PROD or what but hockeyanalysis had RNH scoring at a top line rate last year, ahead of Johansen.

Yeah, more advanced stats stuff. You know there is actually value in scoring PP points right? Even so, Johansen still had more 5 on 5 points. Maybe RNH played a bit more PK time and a little less PP time to "normalize" things. Maybe the PP time was close and Johansen is just better on the PP? Hell maybe it's just that Edmonton's team and defense sucks more than ours did/does? (I'll just say I don't care). I will say one thing, at least Johansen can actually win 50% or more of his faceoffs.

RNH is not even in the realm of an elite centers and it would take advanced stats to make him look good enough for consideration as a top line player.

Edmonton has been throwing him out there his entire career and, clearly, McDavid is considerably more talented. The best I'm seeing for RNH is that "Well he might be a little better than Dubinsky and we traded Johansen".

I'd move on from trading for RNH trade talk.

 

[major major]

Yeah, more advanced stats stuff. You know there is actually value in scoring PP points right? Even so, Johansen still had more 5 on 5 points. Maybe RNH played a bit more PK time and a little less PP time to "normalize" things. Maybe the PP time was close and Johansen is just better on the PP? Hell maybe it's just that Edmonton's team and defense sucks more than ours did/does? (I'll just say I don't care). I will say one thing, at least Johansen can actually win 50% or more of his faceoffs.

RNH is not even in the realm of an elite centers and it would take advanced stats to make him look good enough for consideration as a top line player.

Edmonton has been throwing him out there his entire career and, clearly, McDavid is considerably more talented. The best I'm seeing for RNH is that "Well he might be a little better than Dubinsky and we traded Johansen".

I'd move on from trading for RNH trade talk.

You're intentionally screwing this up, I'm sure of it. We've gone over this. There's no way p/60 is an advanced stat and PROD not. Either they both are, or neither is (not that there is anything automatically wrong with a stat being "advanced", whatever that means.). P/60 is the same thing as PROD, only at 5 on 5 so as not to disadvantage penalty killers and privilege powerplay scorers.

And yes, powerplay scoring is an important attribute, but you can't lump it in. Imagine there are two scorers with the same 5 on 5 ability, and theyre both mediocre in the powerplay, only one gets the pp minutes and the other doesn't. Even though he's not good at it, the powerplay guy will get a much bigger prod. Likewise the best shorthanded scorer will get a crap prod just for being on the penalty kill.

 

[Cowumbus]

Foligno + Golobeuf for Vatanen.
Hartnell for a late first.
Jenner gets the C. Saad gets an A.
McBackup to sharks for late pick.
Tyutin/Campbell to anywhere
Sign Jenner/Jones/Vatanen
Use the two first to move up to 2/3 and draft one of the Finns
Look for cheap UFA or hope Bjorkstrand/Milano are close

Jenner Dubinsky Atkinson
Laine/Pulijarrvi Wennberg Saad
_____ _______ Rychel
Calvert Karlsson Anderson

Murray Jones
Johnson Savard
Werenski Vatanen

Bobrovsky
Korpi


I know it's just a dream but hey I'm trying. Just wanna be competitive.