Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

[damacles1156]

Also, Kempe hasn't even proved he can score consistently against AHL defenders.

People want him facing top 4 NHL defenders ?

WHY?

 

[Minor Boarding]

Minor Boarding

Care to show me some facts? I've gone back and shown them a couple of times. Not going to do it again.

The bottom six is not a problem in and of itself; it is a problem when bottom sixers have to play top six, or when the top six itself isn't getting it done.

Everyone wants to blame the playoffs on depth now which is revisionist history to a degree as it was our top guys who got annihilated (though it can be argued that they were fatigued/dead due to depth).

This defense isn't Cup caliber, period. Matt Greene cann't Skate, McNabb has low hockey IQ and Forbort has been meh at Best.

As for the forwards. Which recent Stanley Cup Winner had as Little offensive flair as the Kings are icing?
Common, Setoguchi, Purcell, Brown, Lewis, King, Shore, Andreoff, Clifford and Nolan are 9 of the current 12 Kings forwards.
Other then Kopitar, Carter and Toffoli there is basically pretty low offensive flair in the top6.

I am sick and tired of the Kings only playing grinders.
It's Not a recipe for success to ice a team with 3 offensively gifted players.

It's hilarious to see the same group of users getting all defensive, when there is someone posting his opinion (although the probably correct one) which isn't all sunshine.

 

[damacles1156]

What exactly are people expecting out of 5-6 defender ?

Honestly ?

Cause if your measuring stick is Greene/A-Mart in their primes, you need a new measuring tool.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What exactly are people expecting out of 5-6 defender ?

Honestly ?

Not to be a -3 in a game? Play 15+ minutes without being a liability? Is that asking for too much?

 

[Minor Boarding]

Minor Boarding

Thought this was interesting from the main board:



Last year's Kings:

Lucic (55) - Kopitar (74) - Gaborik (on pace for 33 lol)
Pearson (36) - Carter (62) - Toffoli (58)
King (22 pace) - Lecavalier? (33 pace) - Brown (28)
Lewis? (16) - Clifford 13 pace - Andreoff 14 pace etc all about the same down here.

Doughty 51 - Muzzin 40
Martinez 31 - McNabb 14
Schenn 11 - Ehrhoff 10 etc.

I probably could have followed his model better since he literally just ranked by points not 'actual' position but yeah. Not far off at all. Note that he points out in a later post that "high" # on the third line is exactly what I pointed out elsehwere, that the cup winners often make a deadline or other deal that bumps a 'top sixer' down the lineup to a more natural spot and that they often get their points on top lines (aka they're the "Brown" type lineup floater).

You don't see a difference between points and on pace points?
I am not even going for the fact most of the Kings bottom6 was at one point playing in the top6 where they got some of their points...

I haven't heard Brown from King and Shore goal call all that often.

 

[Minor Boarding]

smile12

Not to be a -3 in a game? Play 15+ minutes without being a liability? Is that asking for too much?

This is it! I would add that not being in a constant threat for an obstruction call would be also a plus. Making a tape on tape pass here and there (not passing into forwards skates or behind them every single time) would be a giant plus.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You don't see a difference between points and on pace points?
I am not even going for the fact most of the Kings bottom6 was at one point playing in the top6 where they got some of their points...

I haven't heard Brown from King and Shore goal call all that often.

I used on-pace points because those guys were injured. Of course there's a big problem with it, but it was an illustration of how not-far-off-from-cup-winning average our team was...and considering this was LAST year, most of those guys did even better in the previous years, so it was just an exercise to show you how 'normal' our team is vs. Cup Winners.

This defense isn't Cup caliber, period. Matt Greene cann't Skate, McNabb has low hockey IQ and Forbort has been meh at Best.

As for the forwards. Which recent Stanley Cup Winner had as Little offensive flair as the Kings are icing?
Common, Setoguchi, Purcell, Brown, Lewis, King, Shore, Andreoff, Clifford and Nolan are 9 of the current 12 Kings forwards.
Other then Kopitar, Carter and Toffoli there is basically pretty low offensive flair in the top6.

I am sick and tired of the Kings only playing grinders.
It's Not a recipe for success to ice a team with 3 offensively gifted players.

It's hilarious to see the same group of users getting all defensive, when there is someone posting his opinion (although the probably correct one) which isn't all sunshine.

Ok, but that's a nonsequitur; you told me my thoughts about the bottom six were untrue, then you went on this rant instead.

I'm not being defensive, I'm just providing facts to show a popular opinion around here is misguided.

 

[BigKing]

Thought this was interesting from the main board:



Last year's Kings:

Lucic (55) - Kopitar (74) - Gaborik (on pace for 33 lol)
Pearson (36) - Carter (62) - Toffoli (58)
King (22 pace) - Lecavalier? (33 pace) - Brown (28)
Lewis? (16) - Clifford 13 pace - Andreoff 14 pace etc all about the same down here.

Doughty 51 - Muzzin 40
Martinez 31 - McNabb 14
Schenn 11 - Ehrhoff 10 etc.

I probably could have followed his model better since he literally just ranked by points not 'actual' position but yeah. Not far off at all. Note that he points out in a later post that "high" # on the third line is exactly what I pointed out elsehwere, that the cup winners often make a deadline or other deal that bumps a 'top sixer' down the lineup to a more natural spot and that they often get their points on top lines (aka they're the "Brown" type lineup floater).

Weren't the Kings garbage as far as scoring goes in 2012 and '14 until the trade deadline? Anyways, it doesn't surprise me that there isn't some huge difference between the champs average points-per-position and a 95-ish point hockey team. I get what you are trying to say, I just don't think it means that this team is good or not that far from contention because a team that got bounced in a quick five games last year sort of fits this points per game model.

In regards to the glass half full and half empty posters, the half full are always the first ones to call out someone for being a bad fan or drop the classic "Go be a Ducks fan" or something like that, which is always rich when it is said to someone with thousands of posts that has been here for 10 years + talking about bad hockey. I think the half-full crowd is experiencing its first real bout of "These guys might not have it" since there are absolutely no excuses this time except that the roster is at its weakest since at least 2011 and some are lashing out. Me? I picked up a bag of cool ranch Doritos and a pint of ice cream between the 2nd period or the San Jose game and then CRUSHED some Jack in the Box at midnight like a 20 year old after the Flyers game. I've made my peace with this season since my stomach can't handle anymore angry junk food binges.

No big deal though. It's easier to be negative and negativity drives internet message board discussion. If we all thought the same way, this place would be boring. Kudos to those that are eternal optimists and, like Quattro said, all of us could watch a game together and have a great time.

 

[KingTrouty]

Kings hockey tomorrow, boys!!

And Patrick O'Neal!!

 

[Trolfoli]

New subject!!!!!! WARNING DOES NOT INVOLVE TRADING MUZZIN. Still may not be suitable for everyone to read. I've been looking at this Ducks thing with Lindholm. Pretty much they're screwed. Moving 1 piece may not be enough, they may have to move 2.

I wanted to see how others felt about possibly helping out the Ducks. What about Kevin Bieksa to the Kings?
1) I feel the Kings are in a retool mode that's going to take probably 2-3 seasons.
2) Bieksa has a NMC. If he considers a trade anywhere it might be the Kings where he doesn't have to actually move.
3) The contract is absolutely awful. He's signed at $4M for this year and next. He has a NMC.
-NMC requires protecting during the expansion draft.
-The contract will be bought out at that point.
-The contract is a 35+ contract meaning the year he's bought out there's $4M of dead cap space. (35+ contracts don't come off the books)

My question is how much is it worth to you to take that cap hit for the Ducks for 2 years? That contract is a major issue with the Ducks for the expansion draft or the cap hit for the next year.

Personally I'd ask for Montour (RHD) + one of Ritchie/Theodore/Larsson. I'm not sure that would be enough. Maybe add a first.

The benefit to the Ducks would be keeping Fowler/Vat/Lindholm, and not having to protect Bieksa in the draft or have a $4M (35+) cap penalty from buying him out.

To make the cap fit this year one of Gilbert/Purcell/King would need to be traded or go away. Next year to fit Toffoli + Pearson you're looking at buying out out Greene and moving guys like Lewis and Clifford if the cap doesn't go up. Most of those moves have some calling for them already. I'm guessing Lewis will be taken by Vegas, he's from Utah and has a good contract.

Ducks are in a bind, Kings may be in a unique position to "help". How much would it take? 4M cap hit this season, and either Bieksa protected in the expansion draft or 4M of dead cap next year. Montour (RHD) + Theodore or Larsson + first (they'll probably make the playoffs) might do it for me. It would suck for 2 years, but really help a retool.

EDIT: forgot my meds... BRB!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Weren't the Kings garbage as far as scoring goes in 2012 and '14 until the trade deadline? Anyways, it doesn't surprise me that there isn't some huge difference between the champs average points-per-position and a 95-ish point hockey team. I get what you are trying to say, I just don't think it means that this team is good or not that far from contention because a team that got bounced in a quick five games last year sort of fits this points per game model.

In regards to the glass half full and half empty posters, the half full are always the first ones to call out someone for being a bad fan or drop the classic "Go be a Ducks fan" or something like that, which is always rich when it is said to someone with thousands of posts that has been here for 10 years + talking about bad hockey. I think the half-full crowd is experiencing its first real bout of "These guys might not have it" since there are absolutely no excuses this time except that the roster is at its weakest since at least 2011 and some are lashing out. Me? I picked up a bag of cool ranch Doritos and a pint of ice cream between the 2nd period or the San Jose game and then CRUSHED some Jack in the Box at midnight like a 20 year old after the Flyers game. I've made my peace with this season since my stomach can't handle anymore angry junk food binges.

No big deal though. It's easier to be negative and negativity drives internet message board discussion. If we all thought the same way, this place would be boring. Kudos to those that are eternal optimists and, like Quattro said, all of us could watch a game together and have a great time.

But again--I'm not saying that roster is a Cup roster or anything. I'm simply saying people that are putting blame on the bottom six are barking up the wrong tree. This is my second full illustration of that.

I fully agree though, I've gained some weight since the season started I think

 

[Rusty Batch]

Also, Kempe hasn't even proved he can score consistently against AHL defenders.

People want him facing top 4 NHL defenders ?

WHY?

Bottomine: only way this team can compete for a cup is if we give the young guys a chance and they outperform expectations. Because their are plenty of vets on this team that we know can't score/defend in the nhl. So might as well see if the kids can...

 

[Steve Zissou]

Also, Kempe hasn't even proved he can score consistently against AHL defenders.

People want him facing top 4 NHL defenders ?

WHY?

Would be nice to see him get a cup of coffee this season. Although it was only pre-seaosn, he definitely looked good.

Plus, the NHL is changing the past 2 seasons. Big and heavy needs some speed and skill, The Kings are proof of that.

 

[Trolfoli]

But again--I'm not saying that roster is a Cup roster or anything. I'm simply saying people that are putting blame on the bottom six are barking up the wrong tree. This is my second full illustration of that.

I fully agree though, I've gained some weight since the season started I think

There may be a disconnect here. The problem with the "bottom 6" is it's morphed into a "bottom 9". There are too many grinders, not enough Pearson/Toffoli's. That doesn't mean that the bottom 6 is playing bad for bottom 6'ers. Just the Kings don't really have 6 top 6'ers as it were.

Bottomine: only way this team can compete for a cup is if we give the young guys a chance and they outperform expectations. Because their are plenty of vets on this team that we know can't score/defend in the nhl. So might as well see if the kids can...

Don't worry there's time. No point in rushing anyone, let them develop. They'll be here soon enough.

 

[The Tikkanen]

But again--I'm not saying that roster is a Cup roster or anything. I'm simply saying people that are putting blame on the bottom six are barking up the wrong tree. This is my second full illustration of that.

I fully agree though, I've gained some weight since the season started I think

It's hard to critique the bottom 6 when there is no top 6!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There may be a disconnect here. The problem with the "bottom 6" is it's morphed into a "bottom 9". There are too many grinders, not enough Pearson/Toffoli's. That doesn't mean that the bottom 6 is playing bad for bottom 6'ers. Just the Kings don't really have 6 top 6'ers as it were.
.

It's hard to critique the bottom 6 when there is no top 6!

Now that I can agree with.

Kopitar, Carter, Pearson, Toffoli. MAYBE if Gaborik still has the juice. 4-5 legit top-sixers.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Now that I can agree with.

Kopitar, Carter, Pearson, Toffoli. MAYBE if Gaborik still has the juice. 4-5 legit top-sixers.

It's become an inefficient roster for a variety of reasons. Each guy has to work that much harder to make up the difference for someone else, and everything gets stretched a little too thin.

 

[go4hockey]

Las Vegas had the season point total at 99.5

I've never made a bet this high before.
but i put a bunch on the UNDER last week at FF
when thinking about our current line-up.

Hate betting against my team like this but
at least I'll make some $$ watching them
roll out a team with absolutely NO depth.

This was a good bet with Quick healthy but once he went down your sure to make $$$

 

[Basilisk]

Is it too early to be thinking of the 2017 draft?

 

[mattgkg]

Is it too early to be thinking of the 2017 draft?

lomardi at reign practice on the bench not in stands. unusual that he'd be there. hope there is some movement earlier than giving greene and gilbert any more ice time in full capacity role.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think Gilbert would be better given a bit of time to learn the system and such. He has a fantastic breakout pass and some good vision and instincts...but I guess no better than McBain when I really think about it. Shrug. Just don't see a RHD down there that would also PK with some NHL experience otherwise I'd say let LaDue get some work. One of Greene or Gilbert will likely be in the lineup and I can't say I disagree with that idea given what we have (the alternatives would be Trotman or LaDue).

 

[mattgkg]

I think a possibility might be a trotman/gravel recall for greene to have "conditioning stint" in ontario. (read he's still eligible for 10 game assignment) either that or he's scouting to trade a close nhl prospect + scuderi for a goalie like wedgewood or neuvirth.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kings sign Purcell, Gilbert, Trotman, Latta, and Zatkoff.

Latta and Trotman are in the AHL, Gilbert was a healthy scratch for two games, Purcell for 1, and Zatkoff is horrible.

Lombardi never does well on the UFA market.

 

[Reaper45]

Kings sign Purcell, Gilbert, Trotman, Latta, and Zatkoff.

Latta and Trotman are in the AHL, Gilbert was a healthy scratch for two games, Purcell for 1, and Zatkoff is horrible.

Lombardi never does well on the UFA market.

It's not just Lombardi. It's the Kings period. Guys don't want to come here unless they're traded here.

 

[mattgkg]

It's not just Lombardi. It's the Kings period. Guys don't want to come here unless they're traded here.

it's not exactly great to build your personal value up when your restricted offensively. why would a 40 goal scorer choose to only score 25 because that's what they currently have in kopitar, carter and gaborik.