Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

[Raccoon Jesus]

When you said "stats say otherwise" I thought you were going to bring up some sort of advanced stats to support your argument.

You can't discount the recent play play of Budaj. You have to factor in all of his play.

If Quick had been healthy all year, Zatkoff would have never got any starts. For sure, we'd have a few more wins right now, but I don't consider that a huge difference. The Kings' team GAA right now is 2.38 compared to 2.34 last year. The bigger difference is in the Kings goal scoring which has dropped from 2.72 last year to 2.53 this year.

I love Quick.

I think so too and I'm the last guy to rely on raw save percentage to make that point. But when the assertion is "our record wouldn't be much different with Quick," I have to point to games in the beginning of the season that were clearly lost due to goaltending. Quick would let in a softie or two from time to time, but not repeatedly. I guess you're right that it's not a huge difference ultimately, but there is a big difference between league worst and league average, and we've seen both ends of the spectrum so far.

Happy Holidays!

 

[NHL RankKing]

In your opinion, is Teddy Purcell done as an NHLer? I know that he wasn't a great fit for the Kings' roster, but do you see him still having some success on another team in the NHL?

Thanks

 

[Fishhead]

In your opinion, is Teddy Purcell done as an NHLer? I know that he wasn't a great fit for the Kings' roster, but do you see him still having some success on another team in the NHL?

Thanks

He looked done and then some. Who knows how much of that was him trying to play the Kings system though.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He was also hurt, but to whatever degree, who knows.

Saw flashes of skill and he's got 9 points in 7 AHL games so it's tough to say. I'm sure he could catch on somewhere they need freewheeling skill on the 3rd line but he's never fit here so this year was no different and no real surprise.

 

[go4hockey]

Doughty Amart
Gravel Forbort
Greene LaDue
???

If LA really is Lucky, Vegas won't take McNabb/Forbort. Maybe LA sends a pick their way.

I like Muzzin but the bigger hole is up front. I only trade him for something significant tho.

Great if we are left with the defense you have listed we will be having s lotto pick cause that defense will not carry us to s playoff spot. Thank god Dean/DS are defense first so none of this will happen.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

I'm really flabbergasted that people actually think it's a good idea to trade our #2 defenseman on an already weak defense. You don't trade an elite defender in his prime on a great contract like Muzzin

 

[Trolfoli]

I'm really flabbergasted that people actually think it's a good idea to trade our #2 defenseman on an already weak defense. You don't trade an elite defender in his prime on a great contract like Muzzin

Forbort is fine with Doughty, Martinez is fine on the second pair and plays better on the left. There is no reason to have Muzzin on the 3rd pair. Move him and grab a shutdown RHD.

We learned last playoffs, when Martinez went down that Muzzin is incapable of carrying a defensive pairing because he can't move the puck out of the D-zone. Muzzin needs to be paired with a puck moving defensman. Which means he's playing with Doughty, Martinez (on his off side), or maybe LaDue in a couple of years. Then LaDue if/when he makes the jump will probably not be playing 15+ mins so there's no one to pair Muzzin with. Well Doughty, but Doughty doesn't need him.

You could move Martinez instead of Muzzin. That would mean you need a puck moving RHD to pair with him, which is harder to find then a shutdown guy to pair with Martinez.

You could just run Muzzin/Martinez. What we saw from the 2 being split apart was that there wasn't a significant drop in play from Muzzin/Martinez to Martinez/Greene. Now Greene is going to run into trouble logging 17-20 mins a night. lol... but it shouldn't be that hard to find a shutdown top 4 RHD. Also the Muzzin/Martinez is a fine patch and you can get by on that. Come playoff time when advancing to the next round can come down to a deflection/bounce in OT Martinez playing his offside could make that difference. Best to minimize the errors.

More or less the Kings don't need Muzzin. Forbort's ability to move the puck makes up for any edge on defensing that Muzzin might have. So grab a shutdown RHD that can play top 4 and move Muzzin. Didn't Forbort have like a 75% Corsi at some point?

As this is a development year and I doubt Lombardi will do anything at the deadline other then add a cheap vet (VL/Schenn), moving Muzzin before the expansion draft wouldn't make a lot of sense, unless some contender threw a rediculous offer out there. Most of the deadline deals are picks/prospects so it would have to be something really special. Other then that hold on to him until after the expansion draft when teams are looking to fill holes that have been caused by the draft.

Also I reject that Muzzin is the 2nd best D. If you're talking about leaving the defensive zone he's right there with McNabb at about 4-5. That can drop too if Gravel breaks out.

Edit: Comes down to it's harder/more expensive to find Muzzin a right handed partner then Martinez. Also Sutter benched the hell out of Martinez in order to teach an offensive defensman to be defensively sound. Even if you were able to land a Barrie type defender to pair with Muzzin, Sutter would have his work cut out for him teaching that player how to play defense. Martinez is more valuable to the team because of his transition game and being harder to replace.

 

[damacles1156]

If you look at the stat trends over Muzzin's career, he actually carried A-Mart last season.

Muzzin is the anchor on any line he plays(traditionally), not the other way around.

He and A-Mart are in a funk, but last season, also to start this season, they were the Kings most consistent and sturdy pairing.

You don't trade players like Muzzin, you trade players like Jack Johnson.

 

[bob77]

I'm really flabbergasted that people actually think it's a good idea to trade our #2 defenseman on an already weak defense. You don't trade an elite defender in his prime on a great contract like Muzzin

I agree with your point about the "value" we are getting out of his contract, but if there is a F out there with his same $4 "value", I think we should consider such a trade. The problem is that there probably isn't a team to make this trade with. It would have to be a team lacking D, but has too many skilled F. And, the F would have to be at some "value". I would define value as an overachiever at the cap hit of the player.

 

[damacles1156]

Every team needs a Defender like Muzzin on his contract.

The problem is, teams want to give up Picks/Prospects, first and foremost, not actual roster players.

That won't do, when talking about trading Muzzin. If would have to be a really good (Hockey deal) for both sides. They are very few of those out there.

Also after last season, where a single injury sunk the Kings D in the post season, I doubt Lombardi is keen on trading any D roster players.

 

[Fishhead]

I wouldn't move Muzzin for anything less than a first line forward, and I still probably wouldn't do it because it would be effectively ending the teams chances at contending for a few seasons until a replacement is found. None of the younger guys are close to him right now.

Muzzin is struggling, and things aren't going right for him. His PDO is 94.77, that's pretty significant. It's crazy that Martinez has a PDO 96, things are going to normalize eventually.

Forbort and Gravel are still learning and look pretty good, especially Forbort. But the real test for those two is going to be what happens when the intensity picks up in a month or two and things get tighter and more intense. I certainly wouldn't move a top guy like Muzzin for a forward until Forbort/Gravel have proven more. As good as Forbort has looked lately, he has a high PDO and is the only sub-50 CF% D-man on the team, despite playing with Doughty. There is far to much uncertainty with both of them to trade a proven guy hoping one of them can fill that role.

 

[theMajor]

More or less the Kings don't need Muzzin.

uhhhh, yes, yes they do. Muzz as our 4-5 best dman? are you ****ing kidding me? I know you've watched the Kings before this season
all it would take to decimate the Kings defense is an injury to anyone above the bottom pairing.

 

[damacles1156]

uhhhh, yes, yes they do. Muzz as our 4-5 best dman? are you ****ing kidding me? I know you've watched the Kings before this season
all it would take to decimate the Kings defense is an injury to anyone above the bottom pairing.

Muzzin was also the only Defender last post season the Sharks didn't eat alive, he actually could hold his own.

Correct on the injury front.

Put it this way to folks, you trade Muzzin, then the Kings are one single significant injury away from playing Matt Greene in the top 4.

Muzzin and A-Mart are not going to play this poorly all season. It's just not going to happen.

 

[AlphaBravo]

As much as I would love getting another Carter-like legit top-6 sniper, I would not trade Muzzin for one. In the playoffs, you need a sound-tight defense and simply outgunning your opponent will not cut it. We are finally getting our defense in shape, and losing Muzzin will put us further behind being contenders again.

The only reason I would trade Muzzin is if it was for a similar caliber right handed defenseman, sort of like a Muzzin for Trouba deal (although Trouba is not as proven as Muzzin yet). That would stabilize our second pair, because Martinez can finally go back to the left side. But, I doubt there will be a hockey trade like that available.

 

[KingsFan7824]

As much as I would love getting another Carter-like legit top-6 sniper, I would not trade Muzzin for one. In the playoffs, you need a sound-tight defense and simply outgunning your opponent will not cut it. We are finally getting our defense in shape, and losing Muzzin will put us further behind being contenders again.

The only reason I would trade Muzzin is if it was for a similar caliber right handed defenseman, sort of like a Muzzin for Trouba deal (although Trouba is not as proven as Muzzin yet). That would stabilize our second pair, because Martinez can finally go back to the left side. But, I doubt there will be a hockey trade like that available.

And if you lose Forbort in the expansion draft, now you're still looking to fill defensive holes.

Whatever Lombardi does, the Kings are losing someone, somehow, that he wants to keep.

 

[Kingsfan1]

With Forborts emergence and comparisons to Scuderi and Mitchell , who are perfect d partners for players of Doughtys caliber , i really think one of Muzzin or A-Mart is going to be traded for a superstar top 6 left winger to play with Kopi. And at that time Forbort will be protected along with Doughty and one of Muzzin or Amart that doesnt get traded.

We are stacked on D , with Doughty, Muzzin,Amart, Mcnabb, Forbort, Gravel , Clague , Cernak , Ladue all promising . Mcnabb signing only for 2 years . These are signs that Dean has something up his sleeve. We cant afford to lose Forbort. Hes a dream player for Dean and we invested so much into him. Plus I believe Gravel will be what Mcnabb should have been and even much better. Hes very smart , fast and has a great stick. Just needs some experience like everyone else.

Cernak will eventually be a bottom 6 Dean dream defenseman, however Clague and Ladue are the ones im most interested in. Clague seems like he can be molded into a player thats just a tier below Doughty. Kid is very good .

What we do lack is true fire power upfront and i firmly believe alot of that will change next year as well. Im starting to see Kings brass adapting in a sense of going for skill and younger. The bigger question is do we let go of Amart or Muzzin and who can we get for them. Personally id rather keep Muzzin but boy is he playing terrible again like when he first came into the league.

 

[Kingsfan1]

As much as I would love getting another Carter-like legit top-6 sniper, I would not trade Muzzin for one. In the playoffs, you need a sound-tight defense and simply outgunning your opponent will not cut it. We are finally getting our defense in shape, and losing Muzzin will put us further behind being contenders again.

The only reason I would trade Muzzin is if it was for a similar caliber right handed defenseman, sort of like a Muzzin for Trouba deal (although Trouba is not as proven as Muzzin yet). That would stabilize our second pair, because Martinez can finally go back to the left side. But, I doubt there will be a hockey trade like that available.

And if you lose Forbort in the expansion draft, now you're still looking to fill defensive holes.

Whatever Lombardi does, the Kings are losing someone, somehow, that he wants to keep.

No need to trade for a right handed defenseman , we need someone who can put the puck in the net. Amart or Muzzin should be traded for a top 6 lw to play alongside Kopi. Let Ladue be our RH defenseman. Mcnabb is gone , his contract said it all . Unless they opt for a forward and not defenseman during the expansion draft.

Forbort-Doughty
Gravel-A-Mart
Mcnabb-Ladue
UFA/Greene

Or

Forbort-Doughty
Muzzin-Mcnabb
Gravel-Ladue
Greene

 

[theMajor]

LaDue wont be NHL ready for quite some time. Im just as excited as you are about our defense prospects but the reality is there wont be any AHL players able to join the big club for a while. Forbort and Gravel have made the jump but theyre still very green. what happens if one of Doughty/Muzzin/Amart/Forbort get hurt? we are s c r e w e d. makes no sense to trade Muzzin when we are most likely going to lose a Dman in the expansion draft. the Kings arent very stacked in terms of NHL ready defensmen

 

[AlphaBravo]

We don't have to lose Forbort in the expansion draft. There is the option to protect 8 skaters. My list is easily as follows: Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort, Carter, Kopitar, Toffoli, Pearson. Other than Dowd, I wouldn't be too concerned about losing any other player.

With respect to losing McNabb, I think I have seen enough of him to know that he is not top 4 material. I am happy with his play, but I don't think he has another level of play that he can reach. If we lose him, so be it (although I am sure we can get picks for him either at the deadline or before the draft).

From what I saw of LaDue, I think he will be ready to step it up next year, which would give us a good right handed defenseman for the bottom pairing. He will replace Gilbert, and Greene can be the 7th defenseman.

Forbort-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
Gravel (Mcnabb)-LaDue
Greene

Ideally, if we could flip either Muzzin or Martinez for the same caliber right handed defenseman, our second pairing will be more stable. Although I don't see a deal like that going down because any right handed defenseman of the same skill and talent probably has a way higher cap hit than Muzzin or Martinez, which is not worth it.

 

[deeshamrock]

Jon Rosen ‏@lakingsinsider · 2h2 hours ago

Toffoli not returning in the immediate/near future. Won't travel on two-game trip, will be "at least a week" before he's reevaluated.


That's a shame...he and Carter are the two that present the biggest threat. Hope someone can step up.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I could see moving Martinez but trading Muzzin is a mistake unless it's for someone similar and RHD but they won't have his steal of a contract.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

I could see moving Martinez but trading Muzzin is a mistake unless it's for someone similar and RHD but they won't have his steal of a contract.

That's my point. You trade Muzzin and your left with

McNabb-Doughty
Forbort-Martinez
Gravel/Ladue-Greene

Sorry but that's a rebuilding type defense that will get eaten alive in the Pacific. And like damacles said, your one injury away from Matt Greene playing top-4 minutes

Saying the Kings don't need Muzzin is absolutely ridiculous, any team would take an elite #2 that would be a #1 on many teams. You don't trade elite defenders that are on bargain contracts, especially when your likely going to lose one of Forbort, McNabb, or Gravel in the expansion draft.

Also saying Muzzin is the 4-5th best defender on the team is laughable, he's clearly better than Martinez, Forbort, Gravel, Greene, and Gilbert. Forbort has looked good with Doughty, but Doughty can make anyone look good. I also don't get people already penciling LaDue in full time, guy hasn't even played an NHL game yet and your going to trade an established #2 and bank on a guy with zero NHL experience?

Martinez would make more sense as a trade chip for a forward

 

[Johnny Utah]

White: Gaborik-Kopitar-Brown
Blue: Pearson-Carter-Setoguchi
Yellow: King-Dowd-Lewis
Purple: Clifford-Andreoff-Shore-Nolan

If you replace Dowd with Stoll and Setoguchi with Toffoli, you have the same lines from years back.

The Kings just can't seem to change. Boring.

 

[KingsFan7824]

That's my point. You trade Muzzin and your left with

McNabb-Doughty
Forbort-Martinez
Gravel/Ladue-Greene

Sorry but that's a rebuilding type defense that will get eaten alive in the Pacific. And like damacles said, your one injury away from Matt Greene playing top-4 minutes

Saying the Kings don't need Muzzin is absolutely ridiculous, any team would take an elite #2 that would be a #1 on many teams. You don't trade elite defenders that are on bargain contracts, especially when your likely going to lose one of Forbort, McNabb, or Gravel in the expansion draft.

Also saying Muzzin is the 4-5th best defender on the team is laughable, he's clearly better than Martinez, Forbort, Gravel, Greene, and Gilbert. Forbort has looked good with Doughty, but Doughty can make anyone look good. I also don't get people already penciling LaDue in full time, guy hasn't even played an NHL game yet and your going to trade an established #2 and bank on a guy with zero NHL experience?

Martinez would make more sense as a trade chip for a forward

Going into this season, we were saying the defense they started with was a rebuilding type defense. Which it was. To make everything more complicated, so far this year, Muzzin has not played like a top 4 defenseman.

Muzzin, an offensive defenseman, with 81 combined points the last 2 years, is looking at a sub 20 point season, which would be fewer points than McNabb had a couple years ago.

Not saying trade Muzzin because of that, but they would be no closer to playing Greene top 4 minutes because of an injury than they were at the start of this season. Other than the play of Forbort, they would already be doing that this year.

 

[KingsFan7824]

White: Gaborik-Kopitar-Brown
Blue: Pearson-Carter-Setoguchi
Yellow: King-Dowd-Lewis
Purple: Clifford-Andreoff-Shore-Nolan

If you replace Dowd with Stoll and Setoguchi with Toffoli, you have the same lines from years back.

The Kings just can't seem to change. Boring.

What should they change? Brown and Gaborik can't be moved, so yeah, no change there. The bottom 6? Well, 34 games into the season, and Lewis and King are still two of the higher scoring forwards at 5v5 on the team. STILL.

Other than the contracts of Brown and Gaborik, the biggest problem up front so far has been Kopitar, Toffoli, Pearson, and Gaborik. If we want to keep throwing Brown in there, I guess we can. He's got 1 goal 5v5 this year.

We can keep complaining about the bottom 6, but they're doing what they're paid to do.