Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

[damacles1156]

When you have rookie D behind you and questionable goaltending sometimes you pay for it regardless.

It's just strange using +- when any given night a team could put up 5 or 6 against the Kings. There are too many player ****ing up on a regular basis right now.

You take +- with proper context. Just like any stat.

But there is a reason why Brown/Dowd are on the wrong side of it, their play 5v5, is one of the reasons.

 

[driller1]

You take +- with proper context. Just like any stat.

But there is a reason why Brown/Dowd are on the wrong side of it, their play 5v5, is one of the reasons.

Also remember that -7 of Brown's -9 came over 2 games -- Colorado and Min... I was at the Avs game in person. Let's just say that the 3rd pairing D and goalie situation didn't exactly help Brownie's +/-

 

[lumbergh]

When you have rookie D behind you and questionable goaltending sometimes you pay for it regardless.

It's just strange using +- when any given night a team could put up 5 or 6 against the Kings. There are too many player ****ing up on a regular basis right now.

I'll give you ONE guess the number of times the Kings have given up 5 or more goals in a game (I don't count shootout goals) this year out of 27 games. Just ONE guess.

Don't let a good fact get in the way of your imagination, Trofoli.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

 

[mattgkg]

maybe try to trade shore for iginla? shore played college in colorado... and Iginla's name literally is IG - IN - LA (heh) iggy has his cup run like vinny last year and we get more right wingers.

gaborik - kopitar - brown/iginla

pearson - carter - toffoli

king - dowd - brown/iginla

andreoff - lewis - setoguchi

clifford, nolan

 

[kingsfan28]

Also remember that -7 of Brown's -9 came over 2 games -- Colorado and Min... I was at the Avs game in person. Let's just say that the 3rd pairing D and goalie situation didn't exactly help Brownie's +/-

Brown has also been in the Jack Johnson zone on a few, where he literally steps on the ice, right off the bench and a goal is scored.

 

[kingsfan28]

Vote him as an All-Star!

 

[Holden Caulfield]

You take +- with proper context. Just like any stat.

But there is a reason why Brown/Dowd are on the wrong side of it, their play 5v5, is one of the reasons.

No. You should never ever use +/-.

You can find use for even strength non-empty net goal differential if you use big sample sizes and correct for things like PDO. But +/- is a garbage stat that should not be recorded by NHL or anyone for that matter. It tells you nothing.

 

[damacles1156]

No. You should never ever use +/-.

You can find use for even strength non-empty net goal differential if you use big sample sizes and correct for things like PDO. But +/- is a garbage stat that should not be recorded by NHL or anyone for that matter. It tells you nothing.

It's tracked, so people use it, generally, people that have bad (Consistent)+-, have it for a reason.

That reason could be a number of things, but there is a reason for it.

People like Jack Johnson are not some sort of victim of bad luck, or a stat like +-.

Jack Johnson is a career minus player, for a reason that has to do with his play in his own zone.

There are plenty of other stats to look at and include with +- , so stat folks include it in discussion (with proper, other supporting stats)

It's a flawed stat, that's completely true. Which is why, it's not everything.

Just like SV%

 

[AnThGrt]

Tom Preissing the year before he joined us led the league in +/- with a +40. At any point in his career you think he was that good yet alone league leading worthy?

 

[damacles1156]

Tom Preissing the year before he joined us led the league in +/- with a +42. At any point in his career you think he was that good yet alone league leading worthy?

Again, it's a flawed stat, that has to be taken with proper supporting stats.

If someone is constantly a minus player, Like Yakupov for instance...There is a reason why.

Toffoli is consistently a plus player, there is a reason why.

Quick is consistently around a .916-.920 SV%, there is a reason why.

 

[damacles1156]

Also remember that -7 of Brown's -9 came over 2 games -- Colorado and Min... I was at the Avs game in person. Let's just say that the 3rd pairing D and goalie situation didn't exactly help Brownie's +/-

But Brown/Dowd's inability to generate sustained 5v5 scoring, has caused that minus to not swing the other way.

So again, their play has helped that minus, stay a minus.

Doesn't mean it will stay that way forever, but it's there right now.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

He can go down while on LTIR but it's a weird rule. And not sure it makes sense to use it. Both of these start on page 74 of the CBA.


They could after removing him could send him down with his permission for 14 days.

Thanks

Yes, he can, 6 days/3 games

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

CBA Under Article `13 on page 74

Thanks

Do you really want to go into the playoffs with Quick missing the year and coming off a conditioning stint to game the LTIR?

Sure, why not. Probably would be better than Budaj/Zatkoff. Or couldn't be any worse although 3 games probably isn't enough to get him in game shape.

 

[damacles1156]

Thanks



Thanks



Sure, why not. Probably would be better than Budaj/Zatkoff. Or couldn't be any worse although 3 games probably isn't enough to get him in game shape.

I would like to see Quick get at least a few weeks of games in.

May not have that happen, if he comes back March.

 

[AnThGrt]

Great article on +\- and how flawed or as it says "horse ****" of a stat it is http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...rse-****-is-the-nhls-official-plus-minus-stat

This year leading right now M. Grabner who isn't at all known for defense. Prior years:
2015 Toffoli/Kopitar then Campbell/Kunitz....
2014 Kucherov
2013 Krejci
2012 Dupuis/Kunitz
2011 Bergeron - Seguin
2010 Chara - Bieksa
2009 Jeff Schultz

If I followed +\- I'd believe Kunitz is the best defensive player in the league with multiple Selke over the past several years. A lot more anomalies and hilarious names constantly in the top 3-10 over the last several seasons.

 

[OldGreatWestern]

Do you think a deal could be made around Kopitar and Brown for MacKinnon and Iginla? We'd have to take back more salary some way for the year. I just don't see this team having any sort of future with the Brown contract and although it would kill to lose Kopitar it could be the better move for the long run. Or would the Avs just laugh at the thought of taking on those contracts?

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Do you think a deal could be made around Kopitar and Brown for MacKinnon and Iginla? We'd have to take back more salary some way for the year. I just don't see this team having any sort of future with the Brown contract and although it would kill to lose Kopitar it could be the better move for the long run. Or would the Avs just laugh at the thought of taking on those contracts?

Kopitar is NOT being traded, especially as part of a contract dump.

 

[OldGreatWestern]

Kopitar is NOT being traded, especially as part of a contract dump.

Nah. I think it is the Avs who wouldn't want to do this. Not the Kings.

Mackinnon is a beast. He's only 21 and has a 6.3m cap hit for the next 7 years through his prime. That's pretty sweet.

After Iginla's contract runs out after this season and with the difference in what Kopi and Mackinnon make the Kings would be gaining almost 10m in cap space.

Avs wouldn't go for it.

 

[KingsFan7824]

We can blame Budaj and Zatkoff all we want, but not everyone on the team is a -10. Does Brown just happen to be out there all the time when Budaj/Zatkoff decide to let in a soft goal? Fact is, Dowd and Brown together just aren't generating enough offensive production to cancel out things that happen elsewhere on the ice. Not helping anything when Dowd is under 50% on faceoffs either.

 

[lexlavender]

We can blame Budaj and Zatkoff all we want, but not everyone on the team is a -10. Does Brown just happen to be out there all the time when Budaj/Zatkoff decide to let in a soft goal? Fact is, Dowd and Brown together just aren't generating enough offensive production to cancel out things that happen elsewhere on the ice. Not helping anything when Dowd is under 50% on faceoffs either.

It could literally just be this, especially if your only evidence is plus minus.

I'm not saying Dowd is some defensive Genius with bad luck, but both Brown and Dowd are above water in possession with 51% and 53% respectively. Looking at Fenwick, Brown and Dowd jump to 52% and 55%. As far as expectations for this season, they are both exceeding them despite some defensive struggles.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It could literally just be this, especially if your only evidence is plus minus.

I'm not saying Dowd is some defensive Genius with bad luck, but both Brown and Dowd are above water in possession with 51% and 53% respectively. Looking at Fenwick, Brown and Dowd jump to 52% and 55%. As far as expectations for this season, they are both exceeding them despite some defensive struggles.

The problem is they're not producing enough offense at 5v5. Few are on this team, but, other guys aren't at -10. Except for Dowd, who is close. It's far from a be all/end all stat, but it's just relative to the rest of the team. Muzzin isn't doing anything either. He's got a couple empty net goals that have helped his +/- so far.

Not saying Brown and Dowd aren't playing well, but they're not scoring together. I'd say it's time to try something different. The Brown/Shore/Lewis line had good possession numbers at the start of last year too.

 

[Fishhead]

The conflict with Brown/Dowd's possession vs +/- indicates that they are due for some correction, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen for certain.

Visually, they aren't looking as effective as they were earlier in the year, so It would make sense to break them up to see what happens. But where do you put them? If Lewis wasn't doing so well on the first line I think we might have seen Brown slotted there already. I can't remember Brown having any kind of chemistry with Carter or Shore.

 

[lumbergh]

The conflict with Brown/Dowd's possession vs +/- indicates that they are due for some correction, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen for certain.

Visually, they aren't looking as effective as they were earlier in the year, so It would make sense to break them up to see what happens. But where do you put them? If Lewis wasn't doing so well on the first line I think we might have seen Brown slotted there already. I can't remember Brown having any kind of chemistry with Carter or Shore.

In March last season Sutter put Brown and Carter together and Brown scored in three straight games. It might be hard to believe, but Jeff Carter was involved in every one of Dustin Brown's last five points in March and April of 2016. I don't know how to embed NHL.com videos, but you can see their teamwork here.

https://www.nhl.com/video/brown-finishes-backhand/t-281165204/c-42555103
https://www.nhl.com/video/browns-goal-extends-lead/t-281165204/c-42584303
https://www.nhl.com/video/brown-wrists-it-past-lundqvist/t-281165204/c-42657403
https://www.nhl.com/video/toffoli-buries-a-pass-from-carter/t-281200402/c-43400803

I would like to see Brown and Carter together again. That pair really clicked for a time last season, but for no good reason Sutter never went back to it this season. The two play a similar style with a similar mentality. Attack the net with speed, shoot when you can.

In 2015-16 Brown scored 4 goals of his 8 goals during 5 vs. 5 play with Carter, despite only playing 144 out of 1082 minutes with Carter.

I'd go with:

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Brown-Carter-Toffoli
King-Dowd-Lewis/Setoguchi
Clifford-Shore-Andreoff/Nolan

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In March last season Sutter put Brown and Carter together and Brown scored in three straight games. It might be hard to believe, but Jeff Carter was involved in every one of Dustin Brown's last five points in March and April of 2016. I don't know how to embed NHL.com videos, but you can see their teamwork here.

https://www.nhl.com/video/brown-finishes-backhand/t-281165204/c-42555103
https://www.nhl.com/video/browns-goal-extends-lead/t-281165204/c-42584303
https://www.nhl.com/video/brown-wrists-it-past-lundqvist/t-281165204/c-42657403
https://www.nhl.com/video/toffoli-buries-a-pass-from-carter/t-281200402/c-43400803

I would like to see Brown and Carter together again. That pair really clicked for a time last season, but for no good reason Sutter never went back to it this season. The two play a similar style with a similar mentality. Attack the net with speed, shoot when you can.

In 2015-16 Brown scored 4 goals of his 8 goals during 5 vs. 5 play with Carter, despite only playing 144 out of 1082 minutes with Carter.

I'd go with:

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Brown-Carter-Toffoli
King-Dowd-Lewis/Setoguchi
Clifford-Shore-Andreoff/Nolan

Thank you for doing the math there. I've said that for a while, Brown and Carter are mysterious magic.

I'm not worried about Dowd, though, he's gonna get it together, normal bumps of a rookie season.

 

[lexlavender]

In March last season Sutter put Brown and Carter together and Brown scored in three straight games. It might be hard to believe, but Jeff Carter was involved in every one of Dustin Brown's last five points in March and April of 2016. I don't know how to embed NHL.com videos, but you can see their teamwork here.

https://www.nhl.com/video/brown-finishes-backhand/t-281165204/c-42555103
https://www.nhl.com/video/browns-goal-extends-lead/t-281165204/c-42584303
https://www.nhl.com/video/brown-wrists-it-past-lundqvist/t-281165204/c-42657403
https://www.nhl.com/video/toffoli-buries-a-pass-from-carter/t-281200402/c-43400803

I would like to see Brown and Carter together again. That pair really clicked for a time last season, but for no good reason Sutter never went back to it this season. The two play a similar style with a similar mentality. Attack the net with speed, shoot when you can.

In 2015-16 Brown scored 4 goals of his 8 goals during 5 vs. 5 play with Carter, despite only playing 144 out of 1082 minutes with Carter.

I'd go with:

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Brown-Carter-Toffoli
King-Dowd-Lewis/Setoguchi
Clifford-Shore-Andreoff/Nolan

You end up with all righties and al lefties on the first two lines

Try this maybe?

Gaborik-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Brown
King-Dowd-Seto/Lewis
Clifford-Shore-Nolan/Andy

I wouldn't mind giving that a shot. Kopi and Top Titty might end up revitalizing each other, especially with Gaborik back.

FYI, lines per morning skate for today

Gabby-Kopi-Lewis
King-Carter-Toffoli
Pearson- Shore-Brown
Clifford-Andy-Nolan