Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't think it was a suggestion, as much as it is something that is bound to happen at some point, because well, Sutter.

Precisely. We've seen Kopitar skate with the likes of Raitis Ivanans and Scott Thornton in the past, so I wouldn't put any line configuration past this coaching staff and management.

 

[Herby]

Sounds like a good idea.

I bet if Toews goes down it has major effect to Blackhaws game also.

Ofcourse, certain teams have players they can't afford to lose, Toews, Ovechkin, Tavares etc,. But most contending teams would have the depth to sustain the loss of their #2 center or #3 d-man. The Kings don't.

I mean, what happens if Carter or Martinez go down. We don't even have a capable 3C or 4D on their own, much less if those guys needed to step up a line.

 

[damacles1156]

No team can really afford to lose top six players, or top four defenders.

The most complete and healthy team last year (Washington Capitals) didn't even make the finals.

 

[USE Fi]

Ofcourse, certain teams have players they can't afford to lose, Toews, Ovechkin, Tavares etc,. But most contending teams would have the depth to sustain the loss of their #2 center or #3 d-man. The Kings don't.

I mean, what happens if Carter or Martinez go down. We don't even have a capable 3C or 4D on their own, much less if those guys needed to step up a line.

Most contending team have but not all, we know DL has made mistakes and i bet he knows it also but i trust he can turn it around.
Lets say getting Vermette would been good idea could mayby play 2nd line minutes if there is injuries but it also means kings would mayby lose Dowd or Shore for nothing and 1-2 years later same issues.

 

[USE Fi]

Precisely. We've seen Kopitar skate with the likes of Raitis Ivanans and Scott Thornton in the past, so I wouldn't put any line configuration past this coaching staff and management.

I don`t think Kopitar would play with them anymore. Go to Pittsburgh site and look what they are writing about players Crosby is playing, Kunitz and Rust. What Sutter does is he makes pairs and fills it with a 3rd man sometimes it is Clifford or King sometimes it is Gaborik.

 

[Legionnaire]

That might be true but, he can't fill pairs if there isn't enough talent on the roster. For instance, if and when Gabby goes down, who becomes Kopi's pair? Are you going to break up 70's? Is 70's already broken up way before because of necessity? Point being, if your team if deep enough, you don't just have pairs, you have trios.

 

[Trolfoli]

I don`t think Kopitar would play with them anymore. Go to Pittsburgh site and look what they are writing about players Crosby is playing, Kunitz and Rust. What Sutter does is he makes pairs and fills it with a 3rd man sometimes it is Clifford or King sometimes it is Gaborik.

The difference with Pit is that they have an elite player to carry each of the top 3 lines. Kings have Kopitar/Carter/???? Lewis? Shore? Brown? You can get away with playing a plug with Crosby if Kessel is tearing the other teams 3rd D pairing apart.

I get what Herby is saying. There is a complete lack of depth. If Kopitar goes down, it would hurt no matter the depth. If Martinez goes out this thing turns into a train wreck. Losing your #3 D shouldn't cause the team to implode. Also if Carter goes out the Kings are running rookies or Lewis 3 of 4 center spots. I guess Shore has a year so isn't technically a rookie. This could get ugly quick if the Kings get any sort of injury bug this year. Say Martinez gets banged up and Toffoli gets mono.... That's like MTL -Price. Injuries happen in hockey.

Edit: re: Clifford on the top line. Half way through the year of showcasing Brown I'll probably be demanding Clifford get a shot on the top line because I won't be able to take any more.

 

[USE Fi]

That might be true but, he can't fill pairs if there isn't enough talent on the roster. For instance, if and when Gabby goes down, who becomes Kopi's pair? Are you going to break up 70's? Is 70's already broken up way before because of necessity? Point being, if your team if deep enough, you don't just have pairs, you have trios.

I agree but cap don`t allow as to have them, specially because we have Browns and Richards contracts and i think getting a good number 2-4 D is not possible because you lose him to Vegas.
You remember when Kings went to finals against Canadiens Kings 3 lines looked lot like Pittsburgs this year, Rychel-Gretzky-Sandström, Robitaille-Kurri-Shuchuk and speedline Donnelly-Millen-Granato, Lots of pairs in that team.

We had same centers last year and same defence

 

[USE Fi]

The difference with Pit is that they have an elite player to carry each of the top 3 lines. Kings have Kopitar/Carter/???? Lewis? Shore? Brown? You can get away with playing a plug with Crosby if Kessel is tearing the other teams 3rd D pairing apart.

I get what Herby is saying. There is a complete lack of depth. If Kopitar goes down, it would hurt no matter the depth. If Martinez goes out this thing turns into a train wreck. Losing your #3 D shouldn't cause the team to implode. Also if Carter goes out the Kings are running rookies or Lewis 3 of 4 center spots. I guess Shore has a year so isn't technically a rookie. This could get ugly quick if the Kings get any sort of injury bug this year. Say Martinez gets banged up and Toffoli gets mono.... That's like MTL -Price. Injuries happen in hockey.

Edit: re: Clifford on the top line. Half way through the year of showcasing Brown I'll probably be demanding Clifford get a shot on the top line because I won't be able to take any more.

Kopitar is our Crosby, Carter is Malkin, then you compare Lewis, Shore and Brown to Kessel. Toffoli is our Kessel. If you where comparing Bonino to Lewis, Shore and Brown, ok. Bonino played 69 games and if he would had played 82 games he would have had 11 goals, and last half and playoffs we had also Lecavalier. Dowd or Shore might be scoring on 11 goals pace if they play 69 games this year.

Look i get your point but we have players that we have and i totally think we should use our own AHL players they have nothing to show in AHL and i`m talking Gravel, Forbort and Dowd.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The Kings don't need the depth to win the Cup today. They need it 7 months from now. To say they don't have it now is true, but they might. Look at Pittsburgh. A solid handful of their players that played decent roles on their road to the Cup weren't really thought of at this time last year. Nobody knew their names. They were just guys.

Kopitar, $6.8m
Brown, $3.2m
Toffoli, $717k
Lewis, $1.3m
King, $750k
Clifford, $1.1m
Pearson, $736k
Martinez, $1.1m
Muzzin, $1m

Those are some cap hits from 2014. The raises these guys got take up about $17m of cap space. It's $6m for Muzzin and Martinez, which could be at least one defenseman, maybe two. You could say finally get rid of Lewis, King, and Clifford. Then there would be even more young, unproven, depth questioning players on the roster. So they need more proven veterans to feel good about all the injury possibilities for a season. Play the young guys though! Get some energy in the lineup. They're unproven though, so they need some veterans. But young guys. Veterans. Young guys. Veterans. Young guys. It's the never ending dance.

If they get some of the low cap hit guys to do something, their roster depth gets that much better. They also have to have a chance to do something. They also have to do something. Chance. Do. Chance. Do. It's the never ending dance.

 

[The Tikkanen]

For all the fans that think Vegas is gonna be this well oiled machine that only makes the right decision you might want to read about the fiasco that has already started regarding their team name. The owner seems like a confused man who is worried about the fan base already. From what I've seen so far them selecting Dustin Brown is highly likely.

 

[KingsFan7824]

For all the fans that think Vegas is gonna be this well oiled machine that only makes the right decision you might want to ready about the fiasco that has already started regarding their team name. The owner seems like a confused man who is worried about the fan base already. From what I've seen so far them selecting Dustin Brown is highly likely.

You can hope they take his contract, I think we all do, but there's no reason to expect it to happen. Even from a desperate marketing standpoint, Dustin Brown isn't all that big of a name.

 

[USE Fi]

Hope Esa is right about Brown and the owner.

 

[Trolfoli]

The Kings don't need the depth to win the Cup today. They need it 7 months from now. To say they don't have it now is true, but they might. Look at Pittsburgh. A solid handful of their players that played decent roles on their road to the Cup weren't really thought of at this time last year. Nobody knew their names. They were just guys.

I disagree. Both cup wins the Kings D was more or less set. There were questions, but the pairing were pretty stable. You need the defensive pairings to be functioning at a high level and working together. That takes time. It's easier to toss in a Carter/Gaborik at the end for some extra scoring punch. The D needs to be fixed now.

Also the Expansion draft isn't an issue with the D. The Kings are in the lucky spot of not having more then 4 forwards that need to be protected.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I disagree. Both cup wins the Kings D was more or less set. There were questions, but the pairing were pretty stable. You need the defensive pairings to be functioning at a high level and working together. That takes time. It's easier to toss in a Carter/Gaborik at the end for some extra scoring punch. The D needs to be fixed now.

Does it take time, or does it have to be ready now?

The D needs to be fixed now...how? They have what they have and have to try to make it work. I'm saying maybe that process, of functioning and working together at a high level, will take 7 months, and then they get going once the playoffs start. Being a contender in October doesn't mean anything.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kings have Gravel chipping at the bit and Forbort now waiver eligible and they sign Trotman AND Gilbert? I don't get it. Plus Greene and Scuderi?

Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, and McNabb are the top 4 but the bottom 2 spots plus 1 healthy scratch are going to be decided by 6 players and the remaining 2 possibly 3 are waived....because the only one who doesn't have to clear waivers is Gravel.

 

[mattgkg]

at least this camp means there will be less complacency with fires lit under their ***** and job security up in the air. cuts and waivers are going to be brutal this year with familiar names... wouldn't be surprised to see nolan and andreoff waived or clifford moved for a pick just because there are so many redundancies between them and acquisition of latta. can mersch play clifford/king out due to cap alone?

defense is really interesting to think about. will scuderi retire when he's waived? can they assign greene to ontario for the start of the year since he passed through waivers already? is mcnabb a first pair or 7th dman? where does martinez fit?

ahh so close. can't wait.

 

[Cook24]

Kings have Gravel chipping at the bit and Forbort now waiver eligible and they sign Trotman AND Gilbert? I don't get it. Plus Greene and Scuderi?

Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, and McNabb are the top 4 but the bottom 2 spots plus 1 healthy scratch are going to be decided by 6 players and the remaining 2 possibly 3 are waived....because the only one who doesn't have to clear waivers is Gravel.

I'm thinking Greene and Scuderi are both done with us, and likely Forbort traded during training camp.

McNabb-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
Gravel-Trotman/Gilbert

 

[kingsfan28]

I don't think it was a suggestion, as much as it is something that is bound to happen at some point, because well, Sutter.

Might as well add Lewis and King on the top line at some point too, because well... Sutter.

Reporter:" you put Lewis on the top line even though he hadn't scored in 14 games, why?"
Sutter: " mumble, mumble, mumble... wanted to add some speed to the line"
Reporter: "but the line was playing real well the last few weeks"

Sutter then just scowls at the reporter and walks away.

 

[Legionnaire]

I agree but cap don`t allow as to have them, specially because we have Browns and Richards contracts and i think getting a good number 2-4 D is not possible because you lose him to Vegas.
You remember when Kings went to finals against Canadiens Kings 3 lines looked lot like Pittsburgs this year, Rychel-Gretzky-Sandström, Robitaille-Kurri-Shuchuk and speedline Donnelly-Millen-Granato, Lots of pairs in that team.

We had same centers last year and same defence

The cap does allow us to have them. Part of the Kings biggest problem right now is the dearth of talent in our system. If we had talented young played coming up like we did with Pearson and Toff, it would make world of difference.

To further that idea, sure, we could have re-signed Lucic or some other free agent, but what we desperately need are young cost controlled players.

 

[USE Fi]

Sutter uses 4 forward lines more than any other coach i know. Let`s say blackhawks ice the puck. Sutter still usually put next line in which could be 4 line because it is next in his book.
In that mentality he likes to have type like Clifford and/or Lewis in 4th line and oh man i actually like Clifford and Lewis they don`t score but they play Kings hockey and grind and posses the puck in corners and wear down Toews and Kane type players.

I hope we still put forward`s that can go to AHL because it is Lombardi`s way he can play close to 18min there than 3-4 line minutes up with Kings and i`m talking Mersch here in this year and Kempe & Co next year.
When Derek King or Gaborik injures then get Mersch up and give him 3-4 line minutes.

Difference in Forbort and Dowd is that they can`t be go to AHL with out going through waivers so let them stay and play be the next cap controlled players, mayby they make it to NHL or mayby we play Scuderi but give them a chance.

Nice reading about Dowd, Gravel, Mersch, and Forbort. Link

 

[Trolfoli]

Does it take time, or does it have to be ready now?

The D needs to be fixed now...how? They have what they have and have to try to make it work. I'm saying maybe that process, of functioning and working together at a high level, will take 7 months, and then they get going once the playoffs start. Being a contender in October doesn't mean anything.

It needs to be fixed now. The personnel need to be brought in then have time to gel. Going into the season and seeing if Gravel/Forbort turn into top 4D this year is punting on the season. That's fine, looks like it will be a development year.

 

[USE Fi]

Does it take time, or does it have to be ready now?

The D needs to be fixed now...how? They have what they have and have to try to make it work. I'm saying maybe that process, of functioning and working together at a high level, will take 7 months, and then they get going once the playoffs start. Being a contender in October doesn't mean anything.

It needs to be fixed now. The personnel need to be brought in then have time to gel. Going into the season and seeing if Gravel/Forbort turn into top 4D this year is punting on the season. That's fine, looks like it will be a development year.

I bet Lombardi`s wish would be same as yours and my, get D ready for a another cup run. Do you remember there was talk about Kings being interested about getting a R handed defenceman specially from Devils. There was talk about Severson and also Larsson i think it was more about Severson. But we know now how price Larsson was i bet Devils where asking something like Toffoli and DL was willing to give Pearson, who knows.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It needs to be fixed now. The personnel need to be brought in then have time to gel. Going into the season and seeing if Gravel/Forbort turn into top 4D this year is punting on the season. That's fine, looks like it will be a development year.

That might be how it turns out, but it might not. I think what you're saying is a little too certain when it comes to sports seasons. If we knew for sure either way, we would have absolutely no reason to watch.

Look at everyone's favorite team in Pittsburgh. They started the season with Scuderi. Dumoulin had played a whole 14 NHL games before last season. Daley was brought in half way through the year, and he couldn't even fit in with Chicago of all teams. I think every Penguin fan couldn't stand Lovejoy from the moment they got him back from the Ducks.

If Gravel or Forbort do end up becoming a top 4D by March or whatever, is that still punting the season? Is a team only allowed to be a ready made contender on day 1 of the pre-season, or can a team develop into a contender as a season unfolds?

 

[Trolfoli]

That might be how it turns out, but it might not. I think what you're saying is a little too certain when it comes to sports seasons. If we knew for sure either way, we would have absolutely no reason to watch.

Look at everyone's favorite team in Pittsburgh. They started the season with Scuderi. Dumoulin had played a whole 14 NHL games before last season. Daley was brought in half way through the year, and he couldn't even fit in with Chicago of all teams. I think every Penguin fan couldn't stand Lovejoy from the moment they got him back from the Ducks.

If Gravel or Forbort do end up becoming a top 4D by March or whatever, is that still punting the season? Is a team only allowed to be a ready made contender on day 1 of the pre-season, or can a team develop into a contender as a season unfolds?

Pens are not an appropriate example. Their defense was quite questionable last year. They use their offense to take pressure off the defense. Every chance they get the puck they were breaking for the other end and put the Sharks on the heals. The Kings lean on their defense and break the puck out in a slow controlled manner. This is completely different and won't work for the Kings.

Forbort has had what, 5 years? He's going to be a top 4D by March? He was unable to outplay Gravel last year. Gravel? He's in the same boat. Remember Muzzin's learning curve? Martinez getting benched constantly? Are Gravel and Forbort going to be any different?

You don't have to be a complete team at the beginning of the year. Even if the Kings picked up another top 4 defender I still wouldn't call them a "contender". They would still have massive holes in the top 6 and at center. Right now the gap between where they are and "contender" is too large to make up at the deadline.