Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

[USE Fi]

damacles1156 I like your style to "argue" but it`s late here in Finland so i`m of to bed.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Well of course it goes like that so where do you draw the line? If we would have Karlsson and Burns he would not be. He would be top 4 on more than 15 teams is that fair?

The line is different for everyone. If you have 3 really good defenseman, and then 2 decent ones, is that as good as a strict top 4? Is 2 top guys, and then 4 average guys ok? What's the definition of great, good, and average? Is it the same for every team? Ultimately, if you win you have enough on your roster, and if you don't win then you don't have enough on your roster. We can debate all we want, but really is just comes down to the most basic things.

Some one wrote its ok to move number 1 draft pick since Kopitar, Doughty and Quick are getting old. I would like to Kings to tranform Detroit type of team that has chance to win it for decade or two, where people would take paycut just to have chance to play. I remember Lombardi has talked about this same goal.

Having really good draft team, goalie coach, good coach in AHL, etc.

It's a nice goal to have, but there's also a reason why Detroit is the one example of a team doing that in recent history. It's a rare accomplishment. The same way 2 Cups in 3 years isn't always done anymore, and you can't expect it to happen. It used to be more common. At least for 1 team to hoard all the Cups at one time anyway. That's one of those things where you go along for the ride and just enjoy it, and I doubt there's a Kings fan that didn't.

 

[HookKing]

One of the best defensive team in NHL playing top 4 minutes, McNabb is top 4 D.

McNabb is awful. He can't skate and his hockey IQ is subpar.

 

[HookKing]

Being that Doughty played with McNabb for the majority of the season and had a Norris-winning year, your statement doesn't make a lot of sense. I would reason that if Doughty had to play the whole year with a bottom-pairing anchor (see Scuderi), no way he wins the Norris. Again, the numbers:

Doughty 5 on 5
With Scuderi: Goals for % 56%, Corsi for % 47%
With McNabb: Goals for % 59%, Corsi for % 60%

Doughty won the Norris in part because he is an absolute puck possession monster and plays a great 200 foot game. McNabb helped him do that. It's pretty telling that Doughty's Goals for % and Corsi for % go up with McNabb vs. without McNabb.



I totally agree that Luke Schenn is not a good NHL defenseman, but explain this:

Schenn with McNabb 5 on 5 Goals for %: 60%, Corsi for % 54%

This narrative that McNabb sucks makes for a good story, but the data tell a different story.

Doughty is Norris-worthy every year. BTW, Doughty took Muzzin to the conference finals on a sprained ankle.

 

[Omni Owl]

McNabb is awful. He can't skate and his hockey IQ is subpar.

He most definitely isn't top 4 material, unless he grows into that role at some point. Right now he's a bottom pairing Dman miscast as a top pairing guy.

 

[The Tikkanen]

He most definitely isn't top 4 material, unless he grows into that role at some point. Right now he's a bottom pairing Dman miscast as a top pairing guy.

Where would McNabb be if Voynov had not gotten into trouble? Now that Martinez is healthy I think you'll see a lot more movement when it comes to McNabb. Really hard to speculate now with so many battles waiting to happen on defense when camp starts. A guy like LaDue could come out of nowhere and grab the former Voynov role and leave one of the 3-6 guys on the trading block.

 

[mattgkg]

Where would McNabb be if Voynov had not gotten into trouble? Now that Martinez is healthy I think you'll see a lot more movement when it comes to McNabb. Really hard to speculate now with so many battles waiting to happen on defense when camp starts. A guy like LaDue could come out of nowhere and grab the former Voynov role and leave one of the 3-6 guys on the trading block.

hoping ladue or cernak can come out of nowhere.

 

[damacles1156]

damacles1156 I like your style to "argue" but it`s late here in Finland so i`m of to bed.

Good Debate, enjoy the rest.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

hoping ladue or cernak can come out of nowhere.

It's possible Ladue can emerge fast. I think it was interesting he would only sign for 1 year. He and his agent must believe he is NHL ready and did not want to commit to more than 1 year - not wanting to be stuck in the AHL, in case there is not a spot for 2017-18 to make the Kings. The young D that make it faster to the NHL are typically the ones who can skate and have high IQ. Gravel is one of those and so is Ladue. I expect Gravel to do well with the KIngs this season.

I wouldn't expect Cernak to play on the Kings this year. I hope he makes the Reign and gets top 4 minutes there.

Trotman may emerge to be decent. Someone on the Bruins board was saying he is better than Colin Miller...Trotman played alongside Chara 2 yrs ago, for awhile.

 

[USE Fi]

Gaborik (L) LW/RW-------Kopitar (L) C----------Brown (R) RW/LW
Pearson (L) LW-----------Carter (R) C/RW------Toffoli (R) RW
King (L) LW---------------Dowd (R) C-----------Purcell (R) RW/LW
Clifford (L) LW -----------Shore (R) C-----------Lewis (R) RW/C/LW
Andreoff (L) LW/C-------Latta (R) RW/C--------Nolan (L) RW

I see us going with this line-up, Nolan is traded or he might not still be ready to play(injured). Mayby there is no interest and he goes to AHL. Mersch would be first forward called up if there is a injury.


McNabb (L) LHD-------Doughty (R) RHD
Muzzin (L) LHD -------Martinez (L) LHD/RHD
Gravel (L) LHD/RHD---Gilbert (R) RHD
Forbort (L) LHD--------Greene (R) RHD
Scuderi (L) LHD--------Trotman (R) RHD

Hoven had these defenceman penciled from day 1.

The way i see it is when LW (Gaborik, Pearson, King, Clifford) gets injured we just play Andreoff and bring Mersch to replace him on 13th/14th forward.

So i would like to trade one of the LW, King, Clifford or Andreoff and just go with 13 forwards (Latta being that 13th) and 8 defenceman.

Hoven was talking having Gravel in 5th/6th D. I would like to see him to start in AHL and have Forbort playing that 10min per game and still keep Trotman as 8th D so Sutter could test all 5 D that we have left after "top 4" Forbort, Gilbert, Greene, Trotman and Gravel.

Of course this means i dont want to see Scuderi on the roster.

Then after 30-50 games Sutter knows more about who can play and who DL trades rather than mayby losing Trotman and Forbort when they are waived.

Of course this is speculation today.

 

[USE Fi]

It's possible Ladue can emerge fast. I think it was interesting he would only sign for 1 year. He and his agent must believe he is NHL ready and did not want to commit to more than 1 year - not wanting to be stuck in the AHL, in case there is not a spot for 2017-18 to make the Kings. The young D that make it faster to the NHL are typically the ones who can skate and have high IQ. Gravel is one of those and so is Ladue. I expect Gravel to do well with the KIngs this season.

I wouldn't expect Cernak to play on the Kings this year. I hope he makes the Reign and gets top 4 minutes there.

Trotman may emerge to be decent. Someone on the Bruins board was saying he is better than Colin Miller...Trotman played alongside Chara 2 yrs ago, for awhile.

LaDue will be RFA after this 1 year contract, i don`t get what is your point. I believe it has nothing to do with how fast he wants to play in NHL but i think he might be one of the biggest surprise.

I also believe Trotman might be a good pick up, has more minutes in NHL than Forbort&Gravel together.

Both players are Right handed

 

[regulate]

It's possible Ladue can emerge fast. I think it was interesting he would only sign for 1 year. He and his agent must believe he is NHL ready and did not want to commit to more than 1 year - not wanting to be stuck in the AHL, in case there is not a spot for 2017-18 to make the Kings. The young D that make it faster to the NHL are typically the ones who can skate and have high IQ. Gravel is one of those and so is Ladue. I expect Gravel to do well with the KIngs this season.

I wouldn't expect Cernak to play on the Kings this year. I hope he makes the Reign and gets top 4 minutes there.

Trotman may emerge to be decent. Someone on the Bruins board was saying he is better than Colin Miller...Trotman played alongside Chara 2 yrs ago, for awhile.

LaDue signed for 1 year because that was the max term the Kings could offer based upon his age when he signed his initial pro contract per the restrictions of the CBA.

 

[bob77]

LaDue signed for 1 year because that was the max term the Kings could offer based upon his age when he signed his initial pro contract per the restrictions of the CBA.

Exactly. And while we are on the age subject, LaDue turns 24 tomorrow, and is 6 months younger than Gravel and Forbort, who both have had a completely different experience than LaDue related to competition levels based on their age. Now that is not a knock on LaDue, he very well may adjust to the pro game quickly, but he is not young by any means.

 

[mattgkg]

is Trotman just a right shot Forbort? (Big and Lacking Identity but totally capable?)

there is very little about his game in ahl/nhl outside that he couldn't play Kevan Miller out of his 6th spot role because he didn't have miller's "edge" and he over thought every play playing top pair minutes. makes me hope that he get put through the magical mcbain turd polisher and see if there's gold underneath.

 

[USE Fi]

is Trotman just a right shot Forbort? (Big and Lacking Identity but totally capable?)

there is very little about his game in ahl/nhl outside that he couldn't play Kevan Miller out of his 6th spot role because he didn't have miller's "edge" and he over thought every play playing top pair minutes. makes me hope that he get put through the magical mcbain turd polisher and see if there's gold underneath.

Trotman is better moving buck and Forbort has greater skating ability. Both are pretty inconsistant and they are pretty big players but aren`t using size.

 

[USE Fi]

Updated first page.

 

[theMajor]

is Trotman just a right shot Forbort? (Big and Lacking Identity but totally capable?)

there is very little about his game in ahl/nhl outside that he couldn't play Kevan Miller out of his 6th spot role because he didn't have miller's "edge" and he over thought every play playing top pair minutes. makes me hope that he get put through the magical mcbain turd polisher and see if there's gold underneath.

might be one of the funniest things Ive read on here

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Not relating to the Kings, but this just brings back a strategy that Dean Lombardi used to employ when he first came on board. Man were those some trying years...

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...salary-cap-creativity-key-offseason/89796580/

“I can’t go out and try to spend money on an aging veteran that’s just kind of a stopgap, that has limited upside, that blocks one of our younger players from developing into what we think they can be,” Chayka explained. “That route makes no sense to me, so this is one where we can use cap space to get better-valued assets.”

 

[Pucknut50]

Gaborik (L) LW/RW-------Kopitar (L) C----------Brown (R) RW/LW
Pearson (L) LW-----------Carter (R) C/RW------Toffoli (R) RW
King (L) LW---------------Dowd (R) C-----------Purcell (R) RW/LW
Clifford (L) LW -----------Shore (R) C-----------Lewis (R) RW/C/LW
Andreoff (L) LW/C-------Latta (R) RW/C--------Nolan (L) RW

I see us going with this line-up, Nolan is traded or he might not still be ready to play(injured). Mayby there is no interest and he goes to AHL. Mersch would be first forward called up if there is a injury.


McNabb (L) LHD-------Doughty (R) RHD
Muzzin (L) LHD -------Martinez (L) LHD/RHD
Gravel (L) LHD/RHD---Gilbert (R) RHD
Forbort (L) LHD--------Greene (R) RHD
Scuderi (L) LHD--------Trotman (R) RHD

Hoven had these defenceman penciled from day 1.

The way i see it is when LW (Gaborik, Pearson, King, Clifford) gets injured we just play Andreoff and bring Mersch to replace him on 13th/14th forward.

So i would like to trade one of the LW, King, Clifford or Andreoff and just go with 13 forwards (Latta being that 13th) and 8 defenceman.

Hoven was talking having Gravel in 5th/6th D. I would like to see him to start in AHL and have Forbort playing that 10min per game and still keep Trotman as 8th D so Sutter could test all 5 D that we have left after "top 4" Forbort, Gilbert, Greene, Trotman and Gravel.

Of course this means i dont want to see Scuderi on the roster.

Then after 30-50 games Sutter knows more about who can play and who DL trades rather than mayby losing Trotman and Forbort when they are waived.

Of course this is speculation today.

That is a really tired lineup. We need to get rid of some bulk and bring in some speed.
I think we can trade some bulk in Clifford or King in exchange for someone quicker with a little more skill level.

 

[mattgkg]

That is a really tired lineup. We need to get rid of some bulk and bring in some speed.
I think we can trade some bulk in Clifford or King in exchange for someone quicker with a little more skill level.

lots of redundancies in the bottom 6 but I can't see a team without Clifford as at least 13th forward. it would surprise me if he doesn't retire a king (especially with Lucic gone) it's no secret what the club thinks about his work ethic and representation of the kings identity. It also wouldn't surprise me if he had a career year offensively if he can get away from Nolan and Andreoff (dear god don't let them be kings this year).

would love to see king traded with re signing lewis. can't have both of them on the team for sutter to plug into the top line every time someone goes cold / injured. plus that would open up room for mersch/kempe on the left.

brown - kopitar - gaborik
king - carter - toffoli
pearson - dowd - purcell
clifford - shore - lewis
latta, nolan
(brown, king and pearson could all be swapped for each other which is nice.)

 

[Trolfoli]

brown - kopitar - gaborik
king - carter - toffoli
pearson - dowd - purcell
clifford - shore - lewis
latta, nolan
(brown, king and pearson could all be swapped for each other which is nice.)

If Brown were still a top 6 forward this wouldn't be so bad.

That lineup is kinda brutal. That's before injuries. If Pearson/Gaborik/Toffoli get injured at any point....

Wait... I got it!

Gaborik/Kopitar/Carter
Pearson/Dowd/Toffoli
King/Shore/Brown
Purcell/Andy/Lewis

 

[USE Fi]

Not relating to the Kings, but this just brings back a strategy that Dean Lombardi used to employ when he first came on board. Man were those some trying years...

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...salary-cap-creativity-key-offseason/89796580/

He has lot`s of new ideas and very analytic thinking, i have liked most what Chayka says. Arizona is in good hands.

 

[USE Fi]

Who Gets the Bottom Pair Spots on the LA Kings Blueline? by Jason Lewis. Link

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He has lot`s of new ideas and very analytic thinking, i have liked most what Chayka says. Arizona is in good hands.

I agree to an extent. I think he's had a fantastic offseason and I love what he says/does--it's fresh. But I think some people (not you or anyone here, but main board and elsewhere) are really jumping the gun; his team has yet to truly perform, and though he's stockpiling youth and has SOME vets (Doan) on the roster to support them, I read the "I can't go out and spend money on vets blocking our youth" line as he LITERALLY can't do it, not that he wouldn't want to.

If he throws all those guys into the NHL, it's just the Oilers 2.0.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Who Gets the Bottom Pair Spots on the LA Kings Blueline? by Jason Lewis. Link

Really like that writeup by JDL.

Only things I would tweak are thoughts on Gilbert and Greene. I recall reading that the Kings were big on "injury metrics," although it was never specified what that is--though this was around the time they landed JDub. To me, I read that as they look at whether a guy has nagging, repeating injuries, or a series of fluke injuries, and how they perform around those injuries. JDub had some fluke injuries but didnt dip in performance on either end; Gilbert and Greene are kind of the opposite at this point (though isn't Gilberts most recent injury the OTHER knee? Don't recall offhand).

To me, they're gambling on Gilbert having a big bounceback into top-4 ability but should be able to play bottom pairing if not--sort of like the Ehrhoff signing--just in case Greene is totally toast. I think JDL mentions all of that but in my humble opinion I think, like with Ehrhoff, they're trying to capture some cheap potential upside beyond the bottom pairing. To be clear, I don't think that will work--I think Gilbert isn't recovering into a top-4 option--but that's what I interpret to be the thought process.