2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[KINGS17]

Carter-possibly supporting cast on team Canada but in today's watered down NHL a big, fast, sniper in the pivot position is more then just a supporting cast. Maybe not Elite but he is one heck of an offensive player on a defense first team on a great contract.

Kopitar- I believe he is elite. 32 points in his last 38 games w 6 goals in his last 12 shows he is trending up again, over 20 mins a game , leading the 2nd best PK in the NHL and playing with scrubs. Since a slow 40 year old Iggy joined him he is a ppg player that found his scoring touch. He carries this team scoring 31 points in 33 wins and only 11 points in their 31 losses. Can't we give him the benefit of the doubt and not right him off until mid next year? He is 29 and not doing questionable stuff like Richards, or blowing up people like Brown, his body should hold up stronger and a lot longer.

- Edmonton yes as Lombardi set this team up to fail. Can't hit what you can't catch. Calgary still does not impress me. What will Edmonton do in a few years when McDavid is making 10 plus a year? Their true test will be figuring a way to establish a true core then maintain it with this salary cap.

What will the Kings do in a few years when Kopitar is 33 and making $10M?

 

[Herby]

What will the Kings do in a few years when Kopitar is 33 and making $10M?

You know what's crazy to think, Dean knew full well that he was going to have to re-sign Kopitar yet he still made all those unbelievable blunders in June 2014.

What would the Kings have done if Richards hadn't smuggled opioids over the border?

He would have been basically forced to trade Carter or not re-sign Kopitar.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't know about others' opinions, but mine is that we should not be paying over a $1 million to any bottom six forward that scores less than 10 goals a season. Because Gaborik and Brown are not tradeable, the Kings need to go player by player on the bottom six and replace those that make more than $1MM with a $1MM player. For example, if the Kings got rid of Lewis and Clifford, that would cut $3.6 million from our cap hit, and we can replace that with two players that make together $2 million, with a net savings of $1.6 million. This money can be used in resigning Pearson and Toffoli.

They shouldn't have a problem signing Toffoli and Pearson with Lewis and Clifford here. What they can't do this summer is add anyone. Between Lewis and Clifford, they have 15 goals. The question then is, if they could get rid of those two at 100%, are they going to bring anyone in, for $3.6m, that will give them 15 goals? And if they do, what's the difference? You'd want more out of the same money, but more goals means more money, which means more cap space is needed.

You know what's crazy to think, Dean knew full well that he was going to have to re-sign Kopitar yet he still made all those unbelievable blunders in June 2014.

What would the Kings have done if Richards hadn't smuggled opioids over the border?

He would have been basically forced to trade Carter or not re-sign Kopitar.

Kopitar's raise was about the same amount that Williams and Lucic were taking up in cap space. I would think that's one reason they didn't re-sign Williams, since he got a 2 year deal from Washington. Also one reason Lucic is in Edmonton.

 

[Reaper45]

Unless you can convince Vegas to take Gaborik or Brown at a cheap cost the only way to instill some cheap good talent is to trade some talent. One or some combo of Muzzin, Martinez, Carter has to be dealt. Or you move Toffoli or Pearson though I wouldnt understand the logic behind that.

 

[KINGS17]

You know what's crazy to think, Dean knew full well that he was going to have to re-sign Kopitar yet he still made all those unbelievable blunders in June 2014.

What would the Kings have done if Richards hadn't smuggled opioids over the border?

He would have been basically forced to trade Carter or not re-sign Kopitar.

I think quite a few GMs incorrectly anticipated the cap would continue to rise at the same rate.

WTF? Don't these guys have any economists on their staff? How often has the Canadian dollar ever been on par with the U.S. dollar as it was back when the cap was rising a significant amount every season?

It was easy to predict it wasn't going to last.

Yeah, a Richards buy out would have hurt even more than what happened.

IMO, Dean is basically forced to admit it's time for rebuild and must now try to move Carter before he loses substantial value. Really, what's the point of holding onto him with the Kings unlikely to get past a still improving Edmonton in the Pacific Division.

 

[CowMix]

Its kind of weird thinking about trading Carter, this season we might have been able to beat the most times being shutout in a season record without him.

 

[Herby]

I think quite a few GMs incorrectly anticipated the cap would continue to rise at the same rate.

WTF? Don't these guys have any economists on their staff? How often has the Canadian dollar ever been on par with the U.S. dollar as it was back when the cap was rising a significant amount every season?

It was easy to predict it wasn't going to last.

Yeah, a Richards buy out would have hurt even more than what happened.

IMO, Dean is basically forced to admit it's time for rebuild and must now try to move Carter before he loses substantial value. Really, what's the point of holding onto him with the Kings unlikely to get past a still improving Edmonton in the Pacific Division.

I argued the same thing on this board leading up to that summer when people were talking about a continuing rising cap as a reason to keep Richards. The Canadian dollar was about even with the US dollar in 2013, that was not going to be sustainable with dropping oil prices. Right now it's at $.75 after dipping down to the low $.70's

And I agree 100% about trading Carter, it sucks because his contract is so valuable, but he is likely going to be on the decline by the time the Kings are ready to contend, and that contract also increases his value. Someone like Washington, Minnesota, Anaheim, NYR if they don't win the cup could look at Carter as a piece to put them over the top. Or a team like Toronto could see him as someone who could help teach the younger players how to win,.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think quite a few GMs incorrectly anticipated the cap would continue to rise at the same rate.

WTF? Don't these guys have any economists on their staff? How often has the Canadian dollar ever been on par with the U.S. dollar as it was back when the cap was rising a significant amount every season?

It was easy to predict it wasn't going to last.

I think you expect too much from GM's then. They're dealing with guaranteed contracts in a cap world. If every GM is trying to get as much as they can out of every dollar, what can you do? To get rid of money, you have to have someone wanting to take money. That's why we don't see any trades before the deadline anymore.

 

[OCSportsfan]

With the contracts the Kings have you almost have to just accept the fact that the next 2-3 years will be terrible. Once you get past that, you realize that you have two years to create some type of team that would make DD stay in Los Angeles. IMO it is the only thing Dean should worry about (other than his job)

What assets do the Kings have that will be valuable in years 3-5, keep them and plan for a resurgence at that time. Get rid of those assets that are valuable in the next 2-3 years, but will not be part of the long term future. At some point those other bad contracts will expire, but if they dont have DD, then it will be a much larger rebuild.

Here are some valuable assets that will provide a return. If you accept the fact that the next two years are without playoffs, then it is easier to stomach.

May not have to do all of these, but at least you might be able to get some picks or young players that have NHL futures. Assuming there is a trade partner

1) Trade Carter
2) Trade Quick
3) Trade Muzzin

Sign Toffoli and Pearson and build through the draft. You can always sign some veteran players to fill out the team, or take some chances on some players that may pan out.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

Lately I've been wondering if the Kings should field offers for both Muzzin and Martinez in the offseason.

My concern would be losing two more veteran defensemen when we are already playing 3 rookies in the lineup and McNabb likely going to Vegas, leaving Drew, four 2nd year players, and two open spots on defense which would likely have to be filled through trade or free agency maybe you can get away with one of the guys in Ontario?

I would try to move Muzzin if I were Dean or the new GM, he should at least get us a young forward+1st. I remember seeing a Leafs fan propose Muzzin for Kapanen and their first this year, something like that can be a good starting point

 

[deaderhead28]

Just glad most of you aren't running this team.That is all.

 

[Herby]

Just glad most of you aren't running this team.That is all.

Yes because the guy who is actually running it has done such a wonderful job the last three seasons.

What are your suggestions?
Status quo?

 

[KINGS17]

Just glad most of you aren't running this team.That is all.

These type of comments always amuse me, because some of the people here were right on the money with some of their predictions when they cautioned against making certain moves.

 

[kings11]

This is an approach which led to epic failure for 45 years.

It also goes for our 2 Cups runs where we struggled to get into the playoffs

 

[kings11]

Lately I've been wondering if the Kings should field offers for both Muzzin and Martinez in the offseason.

My concern would be losing two more veteran defensemen when we are already playing 3 rookies in the lineup and McNabb likely going to Vegas, leaving Drew, four 2nd year players, and two open spots on defense which would likely have to be filled through trade or free agency maybe you can get away with one of the guys in Ontario?

I would try to move Muzzin if I were Dean or the new GM, he should at least get us a young forward+1st. I remember seeing a Leafs fan propose Muzzin for Kapanen and their first this year, something like that can be a good starting point

Or a salary dump, say
Muzzin+Gaborik/Brown to LV for a 2nd/3rd
Martinez to the Habs for McCarron+2nd
Sign Karl Alzner with the $8-9 mill we just cleared...
Brown-Kopitar-Iginla
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Kempe-Dowd-Brodzinski
Mersch-Lewis-Nolan

Forbort-Doughty
Alzner-LaDue
McNabb-Gravel

Quick
Campbell

And we'd still have $4-6 mill left to improve on the crap I posted above

 

[KINGS17]

It also goes for our 2 Cups runs where we struggled to get into the playoffs

Not even close. In 2012 the Kings were a young, up and coming team. Lombardi made the trade for Carter and brought in Sutter and the rest is history.

In 2014 in was a more veteran team and they knew how to throw the switch.

Now it's a team that is just hanging onto being competitive. The anything can happen in the playoffs mantra doesn't work for this roster.

 

[kings11]

Not even close. In 2012 the Kings were a young, up and coming team. Lombardi made the trade for Carter and brought in Sutter and the rest is history.

In 2014 in was a more veteran team and they knew how to throw the switch.

Now it's a team that is just hanging onto being competitive. The anything can happen in the playoffs mantra doesn't work for this roster.

as it current stands your right but I would be shocked if guys aren't moved or if we're not in a youth movement with Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson and quick as the core...
the way I see it both TT and TP have replaced DB and MG as scorers. Where we fell short was in our bottom 6 and obviously on defense with unkinglike plays...

The core is still a playoff contender, the bigger question is are Kempe, Forbort, LaDue, Gravel, Brodzinski, Dowd, Mersch and Amadio what we need on the bottom 6 and on Defense plus whatever we can sign to take that next step???
Everyone has an opinion but we won't really know until next season when our first batch of kids play In their second season. It's easy to say Kempe is average but a few years ago so was Tanner Pearson..
I have high expectations for the Kempe and Amadio, now let's see what they can do

 

[KingsFan7824]

Or a salary dump, say
Muzzin+Gaborik/Brown to LV for a 2nd/3rd
Martinez to the Habs for McCarron+2nd
Sign Karl Alzner with the $8-9 mill we just cleared...
Brown-Kopitar-Iginla
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Kempe-Dowd-Brodzinski
Mersch-Lewis-Nolan

Forbort-Doughty
Alzner-LaDue
McNabb-Gravel

Quick
Campbell

And we'd still have $4-6 mill left to improve on the crap I posted above

This is the issue the Kings have. You're going to do all that, just to sign Alzner(he probably ends up costing more in cap space than Muzzin or Martinez), and who knows who else in a less than great free agent class? That's also assuming Vegas will be a contract dumping ground, which I just don't see happening. They're going to take $9m in cap space for the next 4 years for a couple draft picks?

My hope is they just stick with what they have. It's going to cost you to get rid of Gaborik or Brown. For what? A couple million if you buy them out? More young assets if you somehow manage to trade them? If you have to retain 50%, that's still just a couple million saved. Doesn't seem worth it. Keep them, hope Gaborik can bounce back and get you 15+ goals should he be healthy enough, and I guess hope Brown stops sulking if Sutter isn't the coach.

Almost $14m in cap space heading into the summer. Do what needs to be done with Toffoli and Pearson. Lose someone in the draft, that's a little more cap. Greene, won't retire, but might go on LTIR, which is more cap. With just 1 year left, if he could play, you might be able to trade him to a team looking to get to the cap floor. If anyone on this roster, you might be able to deal him to Vegas.

20 more goals and the Kings are in the playoffs this year. That's 1 extra goal per player. Less than that if Kopitar isn't in the low teens. Now, after this season, would be the worst time to try and trade the majority of players on the roster. Carter you could trade. Doughty, he would always be valuable. Pearson, probably. Anyone else and it's selling low.

Basically do what Lombardi has done since the playoffs last year. Nothing, and have a couple more young guys make the team out of camp. Dowd, Forbort, and Gravel this year. Kempe, Brodzinski, and LaDue next year. Hope for some health, and a couple bounce back seasons, and keeps your picks and prospects.

 

[kings11]

This is the issue the Kings have. You're going to do all that, just to sign Alzner(he probably ends up costing more in cap space than Muzzin or Martinez), and who knows who else in a less than great free agent class? That's also assuming Vegas will be a contract dumping ground, which I just don't see happening. They're going to take $9m in cap space for the next 4 years for a couple draft picks?

My hope is they just stick with what they have. It's going to cost you to get rid of Gaborik or Brown. For what? A couple million if you buy them out? More young assets if you somehow manage to trade them? If you have to retain 50%, that's still just a couple million saved. Doesn't seem worth it. Keep them, hope Gaborik can bounce back and get you 15+ goals should he be healthy enough, and I guess hope Brown stops sulking if Sutter isn't the coach.

Almost $14m in cap space heading into the summer. Do what needs to be done with Toffoli and Pearson. Lose someone in the draft, that's a little more cap. Greene, won't retire, but might go on LTIR, which is more cap. With just 1 year left, if he could play, you might be able to trade him to a team looking to get to the cap floor. If anyone on this roster, you might be able to deal him to Vegas.

20 more goals and the Kings are in the playoffs this year. That's 1 extra goal per player. Less than that if Kopitar isn't in the low teens. Now, after this season, would be the worst time to try and trade the majority of players on the roster. Carter you could trade. Doughty, he would always be valuable. Pearson, probably. Anyone else and it's selling low.

Basically do what Lombardi has done since the playoffs last year. Nothing, and have a couple more young guys make the team out of camp. Dowd, Forbort, and Gravel this year. Kempe, Brodzinski, and LaDue next year. Hope for some health, and a couple bounce back seasons, and keeps your picks and prospects.

I've always been a proponent of bringing up the kids and putting them in positions to succeed but everyone loves to ****** so I put a roster up with what everyone is suggesting be done and look we'd still be in a bad spot..
Forbort, Gravel and LaDue give me hope we're going to have an above average defense maybe even special if Muzz and Amart get their heads out their arse!
Kempe looks like he's going to be pretty good from a small sample size...
Brodzinski from the Ontario games I've seen has a knack for being at the right place and boy does he have a shot
Mersch is that big butt, front of the net presence that represents Kings hockey and we've lacked
Amadio, to me atleast, is a taller, faster, stronger Mike Richards minus the bad habits.. kid works extra hard and has a will so strong he went from being a defensive 3C/4C prospect to one that has the look of a future 2C... hardwork is this kids game and we sure could use some of that
Also, after what I've seen these past few games... I would love to bring back Jerome Iginla !!!!

 

[bob77]

Or a salary dump, say
Muzzin+Gaborik/Brown to LV for a 2nd/3rd
Martinez to the Habs for McCarron+2nd
Sign Karl Alzner with the $8-9 mill we just cleared...
Brown-Kopitar-Iginla
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Kempe-Dowd-Brodzinski
Mersch-Lewis-Nolan

Forbort-Doughty
Alzner-LaDue
McNabb-Gravel

Quick
Campbell

And we'd still have $4-6 mill left to improve on the crap I posted above

You write this as if teams are all lined up willing to help the Kings with their cap problems. They're not!! No team helps other teams.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I'm all for brining back Iginla on like a one year 2.5 mill deal. Anything more, no thanks.

 

[HeadInjury]

You write this as if teams are all lined up willing to help the Kings with their cap problems. They're not!! No team helps other teams.

Hard concept for some, isn't it? Our having long term cap problems is to Vegas' advantage.

 

[Bandit]

You write this as if teams are all lined up willing to help the Kings with their cap problems. They're not!! No team helps other teams.

Yet somehow Pavel Datsyuk got traded. Nathan Horton got traded. Scott Gomez got traded. Chris Pronger got traded. Marc Savard got traded. And on and on. And none of those guys could even play anymore.

What's left to talk about?

Dean is stupid.
Kopitar is overpaid.
Brown and Gaborik's contracts are unmovable.
Clifford sucks.
Muzzin sucks.
Martinez sucks.
Trade Carter.
Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.

 

[Fat Elvis]

This is the issue the Kings have. You're going to do all that, just to sign Alzner(he probably ends up costing more in cap space than Muzzin or Martinez), and who knows who else in a less than great free agent class? That's also assuming Vegas will be a contract dumping ground, which I just don't see happening. They're going to take $9m in cap space for the next 4 years for a couple draft picks?

My hope is they just stick with what they have. It's going to cost you to get rid of Gaborik or Brown. For what? A couple million if you buy them out? More young assets if you somehow manage to trade them? If you have to retain 50%, that's still just a couple million saved. Doesn't seem worth it. Keep them, hope Gaborik can bounce back and get you 15+ goals should he be healthy enough, and I guess hope Brown stops sulking if Sutter isn't the coach.

Almost $14m in cap space heading into the summer. Do what needs to be done with Toffoli and Pearson. Lose someone in the draft, that's a little more cap. Greene, won't retire, but might go on LTIR, which is more cap. With just 1 year left, if he could play, you might be able to trade him to a team looking to get to the cap floor. If anyone on this roster, you might be able to deal him to Vegas.

20 more goals and the Kings are in the playoffs this year. That's 1 extra goal per player. Less than that if Kopitar isn't in the low teens. Now, after this season, would be the worst time to try and trade the majority of players on the roster. Carter you could trade. Doughty, he would always be valuable. Pearson, probably. Anyone else and it's selling low.

Basically do what Lombardi has done since the playoffs last year. Nothing, and have a couple more young guys make the team out of camp. Dowd, Forbort, and Gravel this year. Kempe, Brodzinski, and LaDue next year. Hope for some health, and a couple bounce back seasons, and keeps your picks and prospects.

I'm fine with this line of thinking. For all the complaining about Amart and Muzz, they are still two very good dmen that most teams in the league would covet. I think fans get excited about the "kids" coming up. But really, it's just the idea of someone new.

People are all excited about Kempe and what he adds. But after 20 games he has 2g 4a, which if you expand that to 80 games you basically get Nic Dowd. Still excited? Lots of folks are saying to trade Amart/Muzz/Carter etc, but who replaces them most likely will not be anymore exciting.

 

[AmadiosAmigos]

Yet somehow Pavel Datsyuk got traded. Nathan Horton got traded. Scott Gomez got traded. Chris Pronger got traded. Marc Savard got traded. And on and on. And none of those guys could even play anymore.

What's left to talk about?

Dean is stupid.
Kopitar is overpaid.
Brown and Gaborik's contracts are unmovable.
Clifford sucks.
Muzzin sucks.
Martinez sucks.
Trade Carter.
Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.

Datsyuk was traded with the 16th pick to Arizona for the 20th, 53rd and Vitale.

Pronger got traded with Grossman to Arizona for Gagner a conditional 4th and/or a 3rd.

Datsyuk may have only had a year left, Pronger hadnt played in 3 years and had time left. No reason to think Kings couldnt do something similar with one of Gaborik or Brown. And as you can see by both, the extra was only small that you actually had to give up to get rid of them.