2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[KingsHockey24]

Clifford is overpaid by what.. 400K?

The real problem are guys like Brown/Gaborik.

10.75M for 21 goals between the two. Thats unacceptable.

 

[Herby]

Clifford is overpaid by what.. 400K?

The real problem are guys like Brown/Gaborik.

10.75M for 21 goals between the two. Thats unacceptable.

His role could easily be filled by someone making between 600-800k. So he's overpaid between 800k and 1m.

A team up against the cap that is paying guys millions to fish can't afford to overpay one of their worst players that much.

 

[kings11]

I look at this roster and I still see a playoff team... a contender is unlikely because injuries happen, however I will say we have some intriguing young guys currently on the roster who are likely to start next season and some on the farm..Amadio and Mersch who will push hard for spots....

I expect the team to improve 10-12 points in the standing on health alone...
A productive Quick likely nets us 6-8 more wins
a slight increase in goal scoring from Kopitar, Doughty, Gaborik, Toffoli, Kempe, Dowd, Brodzinski, LaDue which should be expected anyways would/should have had us in the POs this season...
Our defense should be much improved heading into next season just based on the natural progression of gaining experience..Forbort, LaDue, Gravel...

look at it like this
Kopitar- 18-20 goals
Carter- 28-30 goals
Toffoli- 30-32 goals
Pearson- 23-25 goals
Gaborik- 16-18 goals
Brown- 13-15 goals
Kempe- 10-15 goals
Doughty- 10-12 goals
Dowd- 8-10 goals
Brodzinski- 8-10 goals

those numbers are more than reasonable and attainable, they should also have us in the playoffs where anything can happen...

 

[kings11]

A questions for guys that are much more informed...
Since the odds are DS is likely on the Green Mile and DL might follow... we're likely getting a new FO, so my question is since we lack top end talent and are in financial purgatory, would the team dare say guarantee a spot to our uber talented kids in Russia???

Nikolai Prokhorkin- LW 6'-2", 195lbs

Alexander Dergachyov- C 6'-4", 205lbs

or maybe take a chance on a

Dominik Kubalik- LW 6'-1", 180lbs

These are kids that could be steals and we could honestly use a bit of luck and an infusion of skilled top 6 talent

 

[BigKing]

I find it funny to harp on Clifford's lack of production when this whole effing team is basically the poster child for a lack of production.

I know people are trying to find as many pennies as possible due to the horrible contracts on this roster, but ragging on Clifford because he hasn't scored 10 goals when #11 only has 12 is silly.

He is tradeable with that contract. There are teams out there that would take him no problem.

 

[Fishhead]

Deal Muzzin/Martinez for a forward who does not need protection plus pick(s). Because of LaDue this will move some of LA's strength to address an area of weakness.

Than Protect Doughty, Muzzin/Martinez, McNabb, Forbort on D. And Carter, Kopitar, Pearson Toffoli for forwards.

Likely say goodbye to Lewis, but not that bad.

Can they even do this? Doesn't a team have to expose at least one defense? I don't think anyone else is eligible.

I should qualify that as I see Gravel listed as exempt on many sites, including LAKI, but I can't figure out why. He's played 40+ games, he's not a first or second year pro, he doesn't have a NMC obviously. I know he's RFA and not technically under contract, but I thought LV could select those? I must be missing something, because surely the org. would have kept him under 40 games this year.

 

[Battle Hymns]

kubalik is the dark horse. he should get a long look in camp.

 

[funky]

Clifford/Andreoff/Nolan are not the problem.

They play 10 minutes a night and do there job well; which is to be physical and stand up for teammates.

Like they stood up for Kopitar when he was mugged earlier in the year or Doughty a few weeks ago?

I have not found Andy A or Clifford to be effective or intimidating this year at all. Nolan has shown spurts between injury. Nolan and Andy have cheap contracts and the extra $400,000 to $800,000 is being paid for what he provides can be put towards a better backup or more skilled wingers. Bottom pairing players still have to create offensively for a team to be successful in an 82 game grind.

Lombardi has made some very poor decisions. Long term contracts are for core players, not peripheral bottom tier players like Clifford. You can not replace a Kopitar, it would even be hard to replace a Brown with his unique skillset, however it would be very easy to replace a Clifford, Nolan, Andy etc.

 

[Reaper45]

kubalik is the dark horse. he should get a long look in camp.

Why because he lit up the Czech league? That's like lighting up the ECHL.

 

[KINGS17]

I look at this roster and I still see a playoff team... a contender is unlikely because injuries happen, however I will say we have some intriguing young guys currently on the roster who are likely to start next season and some on the farm..Amadio and Mersch who will push hard for spots....

I expect the team to improve 10-12 points in the standing on health alone...
A productive Quick likely nets us 6-8 more wins
a slight increase in goal scoring from Kopitar, Doughty, Gaborik, Toffoli, Kempe, Dowd, Brodzinski, LaDue which should be expected anyways would/should have had us in the POs this season...
Our defense should be much improved heading into next season just based on the natural progression of gaining experience..Forbort, LaDue, Gravel...

look at it like this
Kopitar- 18-20 goals
Carter- 28-30 goals
Toffoli- 30-32 goals
Pearson- 23-25 goals
Gaborik- 16-18 goals
Brown- 13-15 goals
Kempe- 10-15 goals
Doughty- 10-12 goals
Dowd- 8-10 goals
Brodzinski- 8-10 goals

those numbers are more than reasonable and attainable, they should also have us in the playoffs where anything can happen...

This is an approach which led to epic failure for 45 years.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I find it funny to harp on Clifford's lack of production when this whole effing team is basically the poster child for a lack of production.

I know people are trying to find as many pennies as possible due to the horrible contracts on this roster, but ragging on Clifford because he hasn't scored 10 goals when #11 only has 12 is silly.

He is tradeable with that contract. There are teams out there that would take him no problem.

I don't know about others' opinions, but mine is that we should not be paying over a $1 million to any bottom six forward that scores less than 10 goals a season. Because Gaborik and Brown are not tradeable, the Kings need to go player by player on the bottom six and replace those that make more than $1MM with a $1MM player. For example, if the Kings got rid of Lewis and Clifford, that would cut $3.6 million from our cap hit, and we can replace that with two players that make together $2 million, with a net savings of $1.6 million. This money can be used in resigning Pearson and Toffoli.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Can they even do this? Doesn't a team have to expose at least one defense? I don't think anyone else is eligible.

I should qualify that as I see Gravel listed as exempt on many sites, including LAKI, but I can't figure out why. He's played 40+ games, he's not a first or second year pro, he doesn't have a NMC obviously. I know he's RFA and not technically under contract, but I thought LV could select those? I must be missing something, because surely the org. would have kept him under 40 games this year.

We have no choice but to expose McNabb. If Greene and Gilbert had played longer on this team, we could have exposed one of them instead.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

His role could easily be filled by someone making between 600-800k. So he's overpaid between 800k and 1m.

A team up against the cap that is paying guys millions to fish can't afford to overpay one of their worst players that much.

Who is available in that price range that will get 150 hits a year playing around 8-10 mins a game most nights? Also stand ups fights and defensively responsible I don't see it.

 

[funky]

This is an approach which led to epic failure for 45 years.

I see nothing wrong with his reasoning. Our true core Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Carter are still elite. Most of our players that severely underpreformed were injured at some point. We introduced 3 rookie defenceman and had a key defense man in Muzzin have an off year. Our sniper missed twenty games and is skating on one leg. We also had Peter Budaj in net with no adequate backup to spell him off for 75% of the year.

As for the Kopitar bashing he was made Captian, injured, missed 5 games, came back in a brace for 10 more and was saddled between two 3rd liners for a lot of the year. Maybe we can back off the hate a bit.
Ya his contract sucks but with LA's tax situation what did anyone expect? Tampa who is in a world of different tax bracket signed a guy suffering from blood clots to 8.5 a year. If he was in L.A he would have got 10 as well. Kopitars twin Toews gets 10 a year. Price of business.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

Why because he lit up the Czech league? That's like lighting up the ECHL.

I suppose not giving a young skilled forward (which is the team's biggest need right now) a look is the better option?

 

[KINGS17]

I see nothing wrong with his reasoning. Our true core Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Carter are still elite. Most of our players that severely underpreformed were injured at some point. We introduced 3 rookie defenceman and had a key defense man in Muzzin have an off year. Our sniper missed twenty games and is skating on one leg. We also had Peter Budaj in net with no adequate backup to spell him off for 75% of the year.

As for the Kopitar bashing he was made Captian, injured, missed 5 games, came back in a brace for 10 more and was saddled between two 3rd liners for a lot of the year. Maybe we can back off the hate a bit.
Ya his contract sucks but with LA's tax situation what did anyone expect? Tampa who is in a world of different tax bracket signed a guy suffering from blood clots to 8.5 a year. If he was in L.A he would have got 10 as well. Kopitars twin Toews gets 10 a year. Price of business.

Not really. Doughty is elite when he is on his game. Carter is a great supporting cast member on a contending team.

Unfortunately, while I love Quick and his competitive nature, how much more can he take before he breaks down. His athletic style does not promote one healthy season after another going forward.

Kopitar is no longer elite. He is a soon to be 30 year old with 7 years left on a max contract. But I get it, anyone who points out the shortcomings of his play vs the type of play expected for that kind of money is a hater.

It may be the price of doing business when the team is contending. This team will have difficulty getting past Edmonton and Calgary over the next several years.

 

[Herby]

He is tradeable with that contract. There are teams out there that would take him no problem.

Respect your opinion, but most teams are against either the NHL cap or an internal cap and that's a pretty big number for what he brings.

And 10 goals is a bit off an off number, this will be Clifford's fourth straight season scoring between 3 and 6 goals. He is a fourth liner with a completely non-existent offensive game.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I suppose not giving a young skilled forward (which is the team's biggest need right now) a look is the better option?

I don't think he's a 'skilled' forward like you might imagine. He's not fast or slick or anything, simply effective.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

I don't think he's a 'skilled' forward like you might imagine. He's not fast or slick or anything, simply effective.

Fair enough, but he can still be an effective and cost controlled option for the 3rd line

 

[BigKing]

Respect your opinion, but most teams are against either the NHL cap or an internal cap and that's a pretty big number for what he brings.

And 10 goals is a bit off an off number, this will be Clifford's fourth straight season scoring between 3 and 6 goals. He is a fourth liner with a completely non-existent offensive game.

You and I will usually see tough guys differently so the difference in opinion is to be expected.

I'd like his cap hit to be lower but I can't look at Clifford's contract and bemoan it when there are obviously several worse contracts on the roster and Clifford still does close to what is expected of him while others are nowhere close to expectations.

I mean, Scuderi has a cap hit of $1.125MM this season to sometimes play with the Reign. Our favorite, Mike Richards, has a cap hit at pretty much the same amount. Purcell has the same cap hit to play in Ontario this season.

That doesn't even get in to the usual cap-hit killers. With so many poor decisions out there, I have a hard time getting too worked up over one of the few guys that will run through a wall for this team.

 

[funky]

Not really. Doughty is elite when he is on his game. Carter is a great supporting cast member on a contending team.



Unfortunately, while I love Quick and his competitive nature, how much more can he take before he breaks down. His athletic style does not promote one healthy season after another going forward.

Kopitar is no longer elite. He is a soon to be 30 year old with 7 years left on a max contract. But I get it, anyone who points out the shortcomings of his play vs the type of play expected for that kind of money is a hater.


It may be the price of doing business when the team is contending. This team will have difficulty getting past Edmonton and Calgary over the next several years.

Carter-possibly supporting cast on team Canada but in today's watered down NHL a big, fast, sniper in the pivot position is more then just a supporting cast. Maybe not Elite but he is one heck of an offensive player on a defense first team on a great contract.

Kopitar- I believe he is elite. 32 points in his last 38 games w 6 goals in his last 12 shows he is trending up again, over 20 mins a game , leading the 2nd best PK in the NHL and playing with scrubs. Since a slow 40 year old Iggy joined him he is a ppg player that found his scoring touch. He carries this team scoring 31 points in 33 wins and only 11 points in their 31 losses. Can't we give him the benefit of the doubt and not right him off until mid next year? He is 29 and not doing questionable stuff like Richards, or blowing up people like Brown, his body should hold up stronger and a lot longer.

- Edmonton yes as Lombardi set this team up to fail. Can't hit what you can't catch. Calgary still does not impress me. What will Edmonton do in a few years when McDavid is making 10 plus a year? Their true test will be figuring a way to establish a true core then maintain it with this salary cap.

 

[kingsboy11]

A questions for guys that are much more informed...
Since the odds are DS is likely on the Green Mile and DL might follow... we're likely getting a new FO, so my question is since we lack top end talent and are in financial purgatory, would the team dare say guarantee a spot to our uber talented kids in Russia???

Nikolai Prokhorkin- LW 6'-2", 195lbs

Alexander Dergachyov- C 6'-4", 205lbs

or maybe take a chance on a

Dominik Kubalik- LW 6'-1", 180lbs

These are kids that could be steals and we could honestly use a bit of luck and an infusion of skilled top 6 talent

Don't see Prokhorkin coming over. His stats aren't that impressive and I think he's only interested in the money.

Dergachyov I like, but he's getting very limited ice time in the KHL and he's not overly skilled. Could eventually be a good 3rd line center. His problem is that his KHL contract goes on for a few more years.

As for Kubalik I don't management is interested in him. Lighting up the Czech League is great, but isn't all that impressive.

 

[Herby]

- Edmonton yes as Lombardi set this team up to fail. Can't hit what you can't catch. Calgary still does not impress me. What will Edmonton do in a few years when McDavid is making 10 plus a year? Their true test will be figuring a way to establish a true core then maintain it with this salary cap.

What Chicago, Pittsburgh and others do. Have contributing players on ELC's and know when to move on from veteran players.

Hard to do that when you trade multiple 1st rounders for rentals and choose to bring back washed up slugs because you had a "heart to heart" with them.

 

[Winger23]

What Chicago, Pittsburgh and others do. Have contributing players on ELC's and know when to move on from veteran players.

Hard to do that when you trade multiple 1st rounders for rentals and choose to bring back washed up slugs because you had a "heart to heart" with them.

Carter kopi toffoli Pearson Lewis are the only vets I personally want to see stick around. The rest of the forwards minus the kids are either overpaid or hot garbage. I know they can't replace them all, but I'd rather see inexperienced rookies than the current boring ass roster.

 

[Herby]

Carter kopi toffoli Pearson Lewis are the only vets I personally want to see stick around. The rest of the forwards minus the kids are either overpaid or hot garbage. I know they can't replace them all, but I'd rather see inexperienced rookies than the current boring ass roster.

Unfortunately it's probably to late.

Dean Lombardi has left his successor with a mess way way way more significant than the one he was left with.

There is no Kopitar or Quick in the system. Dean was able to easily trade Demitra, Conroy, Norstrom, Sopel, Miller for actual assets, his successor will have no such luck with guys like Brown, Gaborik, Greene. Trading Carter is an option, Doughty would return a Kings ransom but signal the beginning of a massive rebuild which ownership may not want. It's basically Martinez and/or Muzzin that they can move.

With the lack of young talent, the aging core, so many bad contracts and division rivals that are trending upward and us trending downward it's sad to say but the Kings may be as far away from a SC as anyone in the league.