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2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

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damacles1156 said:
Kopitar can still be productive, he simply is going to need help down the road here.

Pairing him with someone like Brodzinski would help, Brodz Shoots the puck A LOT, kid is also speedy and BIG.
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I think Alexander Steen would benefit kopitar. He's got that grinding type of play like Williams had.
Steen-kopitar-brodz/Kempe.
 
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Unless someone is gonna give us full value for our players we're better off holding some of them to be honest. Think of what's going on with the Avs this year and its similar with us stats-wise. Muzzin's worst season by far, for example. You guys think the Avs will sell Landeskog like a 30 point player? Duchene like a 40 point player? Barrie? Varlamov like a sub-.900 goalie? Etc.

Players are underperforming but you don't trade them at their underperformance-value.
 
KINGS17 said:
All the more reason to not give him a monster contract. Well, that and his age.
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By the end of the 14-15 season there were two options. Trade him coming off a somewhat down year, with just a year left until free agency, or, sign him. Could've squeezed out one more year from and just let him walk after last year too, so three options. Lucic at 50% got the Bruins a mid 1st round pick, a young defenseman, and eventually another 1st round pick, which ended up at the bottom of the 1st round. Figure Kopitar is better than Lucic, and he's a center, so Kopitar at 50% probably brings back at least a little more.

You'd want at least a top 10 pick in return. Any teams with top 10 picks at the 2015 going to trade for Kopitar? Edm, Buf, Ari, Tor, Car, NJ, Phi, Clb, SJ, and Col had those picks. NJ? Columbus picked Werenski. Kopitar to the Sharks?

Any contending teams in a position to trade for Kopitar at the time? Probably won't get a good young roster player, as those teams would want to add to their roster, not just create a hole to fill a hole. The top prospect in their system for a soon to be UFA? Even Lombardi hasn't done that.

No way to know what trades could or could not happen, but where's the pot of gold? I guess anything is better than $10m in cap space for maybe 15 goals, even just allowing him to walk out the door on July 1st.
 
Reaper45 said:
Exactly. If a guy like Engellund can carve out an NHL career, so can MacDermid. And for half of what Clifford makes. Clifford is one punch from being a veggie. There have to be better options out there.
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And no points since Jan 26th at Car. While this team does need toughness they need scoring more than anything else. I'd prefer to see the 3rd line a kid line for energy and saving money to fix #1 LW. The heavy game is dead and the kids have shown they are solid NHL players including in their own end. Reduce the redundancy in the type of players, save money and have a bottom 6 that is capable of chipping in points EVERY game rather than "Holy crap the bottom 6 just scored a goal".
 
The Tikkanen said:
And no points since Jan 26th at Car. While this team does need toughness they need scoring more than anything else. I'd prefer to see the 3rd line a kid line for energy and saving money to fix #1 LW. The heavy game is dead and the kids have shown they are solid NHL players including in their own end. Reduce the redundancy in the type of players, save money and have a bottom 6 that is capable of chipping in points EVERY game rather than "Holy crap the bottom 6 just scored a goal".
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He is a 4th line player who is paid to play physical and stand up for his team mates. He plays the least amount of mins out of any king regular. I wouldn't focus on him getting no points as hes not paid to do that. The goals need to come from the top lines not a player playing less then 10 mins a game most nights.
 
If Clifford is unproductive, overpaid, and can't take another punch to the head, why is anyone taking him off the Kings hands?
 
KingCanadain1976 said:
He is a 4th line player who is paid to play physical and stand up for his team mates. He plays the least amount of mins out of any king regular. I wouldn't focus on him getting no points as hes not paid to do that. The goals need to come from the top lines not a player playing less then 10 mins a game most nights.
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Nolan makes 1/2 what Cliffy does and can do the same thing, with a better scoring touch.

Looking back, I also love all the wasted space we brought on board and kept.

Purcell, Gilbert, Seto.... just use ELC's for god sakes, we can pick up waiver fodder as place holders if need be, instead of wasting cap space on them.

Dwight King.. mr useless. We thought he was terrible on the offensively inept Kings... 0 points in 11 games with Montreal. Poor Kopi having to play with this guy all the time. No wonder he confidence and drive is at an all time low.
 
SoulAssassin said:
Nolan makes 1/2 what Cliffy does and can do the same thing, with a better scoring touch.
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Nolan can't stay in the lineup. Never played a full season there is a reason for this. He is a healthy scratch a lot. His defense is also not as good as Clifford. Better scoring touch hmmm clifford 36 goals in 480 Nolan 20 in 290 points 82 clifford nolan 42 I think the stats tell me something different but belief what u must
 
KingCanadain1976 said:
Nolan can't stay in the lineup. Never played a full season there is a reason for this. He is a healthy scratch a lot. His defense is also not as good as Clifford. Better scoring touch hmmm clifford 36 goals in 480 Nolan 20 in 290 points 82 clifford nolan 42 I think the stats tell me something different but belief what u must
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I think they are both junk we dont need on the team.

Your stats are great and dont lie. Clifford performs at a .17ppg career wish and Nolan at .14ppg.

Clifford has cost us 8.05 million with 4.8 million remaining
Nolan has cost us 4.895 million with 950k remaining.

Lets add in the fact Clifford was a 2nd Round Pick with high expectations and Nolan was a 7th Round Pick with zero expectations.

One has went beyond what we could ask for, the other never even came close to meeting expectations.

Like I said, they are both junk I want to see off this team, but make me pick one, given our cap situation and needing a retooling, Im getting rid of Clifford and that bad contract before I ship out Nolan, even if I give up that massive 0.03ppg difference.
 
KingsFan7824 said:
By the end of the 14-15 season there were two options. Trade him coming off a somewhat down year, with just a year left until free agency, or, sign him. Could've squeezed out one more year from and just let him walk after last year too, so three options. Lucic at 50% got the Bruins a mid 1st round pick, a young defenseman, and eventually another 1st round pick, which ended up at the bottom of the 1st round. Figure Kopitar is better than Lucic, and he's a center, so Kopitar at 50% probably brings back at least a little more.

You'd want at least a top 10 pick in return. Any teams with top 10 picks at the 2015 going to trade for Kopitar? Edm, Buf, Ari, Tor, Car, NJ, Phi, Clb, SJ, and Col had those picks. NJ? Columbus picked Werenski. Kopitar to the Sharks?

Any contending teams in a position to trade for Kopitar at the time? Probably won't get a good young roster player, as those teams would want to add to their roster, not just create a hole to fill a hole. The top prospect in their system for a soon to be UFA? Even Lombardi hasn't done that.

No way to know what trades could or could not happen, but where's the pot of gold? I guess anything is better than $10m in cap space for maybe 15 goals, even just allowing him to walk out the door on July 1st.
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This is just it. Anything is better than what happened unless Kopitar is going to suddenly become a beast in the offensive zone. His deal is so rich it is impossible to get him the bonafide wingers he appears to desperately need.

Dean was really in a no win situation. His best outcome would have been for Kopitar to be reasonable in his contract demands, but it didn't happen.

What do managers usually do when an employee make unreasonable demands?
 
Clifford takes up a little more than 2% of the team's cap, and has scored a little more than 2% of the team's goals this year. His offense isn't the issue. Could you get 5 goals for less than $1.6m? Sure, but he's not the problem. You can send Clifford to the AHL, and gain more cap space than if you trade him at 50%. Nolan wouldn't even cost the Kings cap space if sent to Ontario.

These are not the players keeping the Kings out of the playoffs. They've been pulling their weight this year.
 
SoulAssassin said:
I think they are both junk we dont need on the team.

Your stats are great and dont lie. Clifford performs at a .17ppg career wish and Nolan at .14ppg.

Clifford has cost us 8.05 million with 4.8 million remaining
Nolan has cost us 4.895 million with 950k remaining.

Lets add in the fact Clifford was a 2nd Round Pick with high expectations and Nolan was a 7th Round Pick with zero expectations.

One has went beyond what we could ask for, the other never even came close to meeting expectations.

Like I said, they are both junk I want to see off this team, but make me pick one, given our cap situation and needing a retooling, Im getting rid of Clifford and that bad contract before I ship out Nolan, even if I give up that massive 0.03ppg difference.
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Lets go to yesterdays game the fact Nolan was left out and Clifford got moved up to play with carter to oppose Tkachuk said it all to me. The kings knew it was going to be a harding hitting physical game and they chose to put shore back in over keeping Nolan in that says it all to me as to who mangement thinks is better.
 
KINGS17 said:
This is just it. Anything is better than what happened unless Kopitar is going to suddenly become a beast in the offensive zone. His deal is so rich it is impossible to get him the bonafide wingers he appears to desperately need.
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Well that's his problem then. He's going to have to figure that out. If he doesn't, then the years he has left in a Kings jersey are going to be long, as the entire weight of the franchise will be on his shoulders. He'll be alright, it's just a game, and he's got plenty of money now and coming to him, but showing up to work won't be fun.

Dean was really in a no win situation. His best outcome would have been for Kopitar to be reasonable in his contract demands, but it didn't happen.

What do managers usually do when an employee make unreasonable demands?
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In real life?

In the NHL, where talent is at a premium, and the employee has a lot more power than in normal jobs, they usually cave. Especially when that talented employee can walk away for nothing. The Kings still haven't replaced Voynov either.
 
KingsFan7824 said:
If Clifford is unproductive, overpaid, and can't take another punch to the head, why is anyone taking him off the Kings hands?
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They're not.

He's just another overpaid player that was given a stupid contract by a GM who spent like a drunken sailor. Other than Andreoff he is probably the worst player on the team, he provides toughness and nothing else, like Reaper said we could get that from a farmhand type guy for 800k to 1m less than what Clifford makes.
 
Deal Muzzin/Martinez for a forward who does not need protection plus pick(s). Because of LaDue this will move some of LA's strength to address an area of weakness.

Than Protect Doughty, Muzzin/Martinez, McNabb, Forbort on D. And Carter, Kopitar, Pearson Toffoli for forwards.

Likely say goodbye to Lewis, but not that bad.
 
Clifford/Andreoff/Nolan are not the problem.

They play 10 minutes a night and do there job well; which is to be physical and stand up for teammates.
 
Gaborik and Brown's contracts are the reason Kopitar doesn't have a good winger to play with. I agree 10 million is a little rich for him but I don't fault Lombardi for it at all and I don't fault him for the Brown deal. The Gaborik deal was stupid from the moment the ink went on the paper.
 
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