2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[KingsHockey24]

Seriously... 50 points is Kopitar territory.

I'd be surprised if Vanek signs less than 3M. We all know he's inconsistent but I'm sure one of the 31 teams will overpay for him.

 

[BigKing]

cmon, hit me with three or four sentences with what you'd do. I do value your opinions and I know you care about this team, I just dont always agree with you.

K17 would probably plant prescription drugs on him on a flight back from Slovenia so he could get out of the contract

I think it's not what would he do with Kopitar now, but rather he would of traded him instead of giving him the deal in the first place.

Now? Now you have to hope he returns to a certain level of play, stays at that level and the cap goes up a decent amount.

 

[Bandit]

I think the question is more what would you do with Doughty going forward, because honestly if you trade him you're starting over. And if you're "starting over" but still paying Kopitar and Quick 20 million between them, you're not really starting over, you're the Vancouver Canucks.

 

[HookKing]

I think the question is more what would you do with Doughty going forward, because honestly if you trade him you're starting over. And if you're "starting over" but still paying Kopitar and Quick 20 million between them, you're not really starting over, you're the Vancouver Canucks.

Exactly, a point some seem to not comprehend. There will be no rebuild for years because it makes zero sense to do it half-ass.

 

[kingsfan28]

One way to gain some flexibility is that Greene is all but guaranteed to go on LTIR next year and they lose Lewis or McNabb in the expansion, just gained $4.2M or more, giving them almost $19M in space (but with only 13 players), obviously Pearson and Toffoli will take up $10M+ of that, plus all of the guys you mentioned as well as Shore and Andreoff need new deals.

And that would be fine. Lombardi once again gave out a legacy contract, this time to Lewis without blinking an eye.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I agree with Bandit and Hookking. Too many long term contracts on the books for a rebuild.

I think once our RFAs get signed, we can see where we are in terms of cap space. If that Daly report from March turns out to be true, then a $75.5-$76 million cap and a possible Greene LTIR will give us a fair bit of breathing room.

remember, vegas is taking someone. Maybe McNabb at $1.7 or Lewis at $2. That could give us around $7 million to play with. And that's without trading or buying out anyone.

 

[KopitarFAN]

And that would be fine. Lombardi once again gave out a legacy contract, this time to Lewis without blinking an eye.

Come on, lets not act like Lewis for 4 years at $2M is in the same ballpark as the Gaborik or Brown deals.

 

[KINGS17]

Exactly, a point some seem to not comprehend. There will be no rebuild for years because it makes zero sense to do it half-ass.

Nah, I get it you would rather have them half-ass it as far as being a true contender.

At a minimum the Kings need to sit down with Doughty this summer and find out where his head is on building around him. You can't lose Doughty AND not get maximum return for him.

Then they need to make the tough moves. Get something for Carter while they can, same with Martinez and maybe Muzzin as well. This team isn't going to compete for a cup in the next few seasons. Maybe trading some of our more valuable assets now allows some decent younger players on ELCs to take another run with Doughty and Kopitar in a few years.

I doubt even that will work though, because I am not expecting Kopitar to be all that in 3 seasons.

Dean really handcuffed this team with the retirement contracts. Doughty may be the one chip Blake has to play which can bring some assets of real value back into the fold.

 

[damacles1156]

Trevor Lewis had more ES goals than Kopitar.

No one should be *****ing about Lewis, AT ALL.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Trevor Lewis had more ES goals than Kopitar.

No one should be *****ing about Lewis, AT ALL.

My thought exactly, and it would suck to lose him in the expansion.

 

[Bandit]

Nah, I get it you would rather have them half-ass it as far as being a true contender.

At a minimum the Kings need to sit down with Doughty this summer and find out where his head is on building around him. You can't lose Doughty AND not get maximum return for him.

Then they need to make the tough moves. Get something for Carter while they can, same with Martinez and maybe Muzzin as well. This team isn't going to compete for a cup in the next few seasons. Maybe trading some of our more valuable assets now allows some decent younger players on ELCs to take another run with Doughty and Kopitar in a few years.

I doubt even that will work though, because I am not expecting Kopitar to be all that in 3 seasons.

Dean really handcuffed this team with the retirement contracts. Doughty may be the one chip Blake has to play which can bring some assets of real value back into the fold.

Don't take this the wrong way but it seems like all you want to do is cry over spilt milk.

- Trump got elected
- The Kardashians are celebrities
- There will be another Pirates of the Caribbean movie
- Kopitar, Quick, Brown and Gaborik are with us for the duration of their contracts

Accept it. It's not changing, and there's no point going on and on about things that can only be fixed with a DeLorean and some stolen plutonium.

 

[Docgonzo]

They only thing I'll say about Doughty and Toronto is if the kids in Toronto continue to improve it'll be hard fitting all of them plus Doughty's contract plus filling out a competitive team under 1 cap.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Trevor Lewis had more ES goals than Kopitar.

No one should be *****ing about Lewis, AT ALL.

That's cause Sutter played the **** out of him. Not gonna happen with Stevens or any NHL coach interested in staying employed. Lewis should get on his knees and thank Sutter for the outrageous ice time he was handed by a coach who wanted to go home but didn't have the guts to quit. So us fans paid the price with abysmal hockey thanks in part to meat and potatoes players like Trevor Lewis. Another redundant bottom 6er. Don't get me started on Dowd and Shore being used as the extra attacker. Lewis will see his ice time drop to around 10 where it should be (if he's on the Kings-hopefully Vegas takes him) and his production will drop as well. After he leaves the Kings he will be forgotten faster than Eric Belanger who had a similar set of heavy hands.

 

[KINGS17]

Don't take this the wrong way but it seems like all you want to do is cry over spilt milk.

- Trump got elected
- The Kardashians are celebrities
- There will be another Pirates of the Caribbean movie
- Kopitar, Quick, Brown and Gaborik are with us for the duration of their contracts

Accept it. It's not changing, and there's no point going on and on about things that can only be fixed with a DeLorean and some stolen plutonium.

I accept it. No reason the Kings have to flail around trying to be something they aren't just because a few players are signed to some bad contracts.

Blake can make moves to make the team better in the future.

 

[deeshamrock]

I think the question is more what would you do with Doughty going forward, because honestly if you trade him you're starting over. And if you're "starting over" but still paying Kopitar and Quick 20 million between them, you're not really starting over, you're the Vancouver Canucks.

Good point. And on Hockey Central yesterday, they noted that there was a battle of wills between luc robitaille and Lombardi and their diverse difference in philosophy and Luc won.

So it will be interesting to see how his schematics go, if he has a map and a plan for the next few years and what changes occur. Gradually adding pieces and subtracting some to make a smoothier transition maybe.
THey have to retool to be competitive, if they want to become a solid playoff team again. Current roster won't cut it, esp with an aging core (minus DD)

 

[Basilisk]

Good point. And on Hockey Central yesterday, they noted that there was a battle of wills between luc robitaille and Lombardi and their diverse difference in philosophy and Luc won.

Time will show that Luc, in fact, LOST!!! Stay tuned for the next 5-7 seasons..... Dean's Cups will always outnumber Luc's....

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I accept it. No reason the Kings have to flail around trying to be something they aren't just because a few players are signed to some bad contracts.

Blake can make moves to make the team better in the future.

You're constantly dodging the question here. What good does it do to trade valuable players (like Carter and Doughty) when the team will still be hamstrung by Kopitar, Quick, and Brown's contracts?

This team is set, for better or worse, for the next decade. Doughty and Carter aren't going anywhere unless they want to. Obviously, if Doughty is done in LA, then you look into trade options. But no GM on planet earth willingly trades their franchise once in a generation defenseman while simultaneously strapped to other lifetime contracts. As others have pointed out, you're Vancouver at that point.

What do you expect to get in a Doughty trade? Do the sum of those assets ever make the same impact as a prime years Doughty?

The only way Doughty leaves this team is if he wants to. This is crazy talk.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They only thing I'll say about Doughty and Toronto is if the kids in Toronto continue to improve it'll be hard fitting all of them plus Doughty's contract plus filling out a competitive team under 1 cap.

This. People act like the young teams getting better are doing so in a vacuum, but they're subject to the cap as well; if they start enjoying some success, they're gonna get paid too. Tampa is already coming up on that, for example. It's easy to surround McDavid with talent before you have to pay him; what's gonna happen on his next contract? They've gotta do something with Lucic, Eberle, mayyyybe RNH; and they STILL don't really have their D solved. Matthews is gonna get paid, as are the other youngsters; Gardiner and Reilly are not the answers they need either. A lot of people want to pretend other teams don't have issues. And now that their expectations are to get better in the playoffs, they're not just gonna sit on their thumbs with their prospects.

Toronto's got a fanstastic young team on offense but their D is a mess and their goaltending questionable. They're going to have to pay their offense that's performing, as well as some others to fix up the D and Goaltending. And then? They'll be in the same boat as the other successful teams, trying to find creative solutions for cap management.

 

[tigermask48]

I will say this after reading thrpugh most of this thread, if the Kings trade any of Quick, Carter, Kopitar, or Doughty they need tp trade all of them. The Kings don't win a cup without them in the lineup. The return you get in a trade would be for younger players and picks that won't have the same impact for a couple years and you aren't getting equal value for any of those 4 immediately after the trade. You either trade them all and rebuild or trade none and take a few more shots.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yep. If one goes, they ALL need to go for a proper, thorough rebuild.

 

[BigKing]

Well, I figured I couldn't count on the NHL to schedule the Kings pre-season game in Vegas properly.

Kings will be their first pre-season opponent. Game is on September 26th. What day is that? Oh, just a Tuesday in Vegas.

Kings send a huge contingent of fans each year for Frozen Fury but the league doesn't have the common sense to schedule this game on a weekend or, at worst, a Thursday night. T-Mobile Arena currently has availability that week except for the Depeche Mode concert on Saturday, the 30th.

Glad I bought tickets to that concert instead of waiting to see when this game would be. The league never fails to disappoint. Maybe they sell out for that game regardless since it is the first game in history, but they'd be selling a lot more pre-season tickets if they scheduled this on a proper Vegas night.

I'm going to assume they will get the Kings in on a weekend during the regular season. Will be so ridiculous if they don't.

Edit-

Just read the article about Vegas's pre-season schedule. Playing games at home that Thursday v. Avs and Sunday v. Sharks but put the Kings on a Tuesday. What a farce.

 

[KINGS17]

You're constantly dodging the question here. What good does it do to trade valuable players (like Carter and Doughty) when the team will still be hamstrung by Kopitar, Quick, and Brown's contracts?

This team is set, for better or worse, for the next decade. Doughty and Carter aren't going anywhere unless they want to. Obviously, if Doughty is done in LA, then you look into trade options. But no GM on planet earth willingly trades their franchise once in a generation defenseman while simultaneously strapped to other lifetime contracts. As others have pointed out, you're Vancouver at that point.

What do you expect to get in a Doughty trade? Do the sum of those assets ever make the same impact as a prime years Doughty?

The only way Doughty leaves this team is if he wants to. This is crazy talk.

I have answered it. It does no good in the immediate future. The assets acquired in a trade can be the start of something. It will likely take 5-7 years, which is fine because the Kings aren't getting past the Oilers anytime soon in the playoffs.

...and how do you know Doughty won't want to leave?

I offered an alternative which has Doughty staying, but Blake better start laying out a plan which makes sense to him, and how the Kings will build around him. If I am Doughty and I hear the Kings peddling some BS about how they are going to change their style and be cup contenders over the next two years, I would look to go elsewhere.

The rules say a team can't negotiate with a player until the summer before his deal expires. Nothing prevents management from outlining a plan to a star player and judging his level of buy in.

The team is set for better or worse for the next decade? That's a lot of baloney!!

 

[KINGS17]

This. People act like the young teams getting better are doing so in a vacuum, but they're subject to the cap as well; if they start enjoying some success, they're gonna get paid too. Tampa is already coming up on that, for example. It's easy to surround McDavid with talent before you have to pay him; what's gonna happen on his next contract? They've gotta do something with Lucic, Eberle, mayyyybe RNH; and they STILL don't really have their D solved. Matthews is gonna get paid, as are the other youngsters; Gardiner and Reilly are not the answers they need either. A lot of people want to pretend other teams don't have issues. And now that their expectations are to get better in the playoffs, they're not just gonna sit on their thumbs with their prospects.

Toronto's got a fanstastic young team on offense but their D is a mess and their goaltending questionable. They're going to have to pay their offense that's performing, as well as some others to fix up the D and Goaltending. And then? They'll be in the same boat as the other successful teams, trying to find creative solutions for cap management.

People act like Toronto can't sacrifice one of Marner or Nylander and still not be a cup contender if they also have the best defenseman on the planet. Toronto is going to have to balance out there top six and their top four. They have the assets to do it.

Same holds true for Edmonton. Think they are going to hold on to Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins? The Oilers are already on their way to striking a balance between their top six and top four.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

People act like Toronto can't sacrifice one of Marner or Nylander and still not be a cup contender if they also have the best defenseman on the planet. Toronto is going to have to balance out there top six and their top four. They have the assets to do it.

Same holds true for Edmonton. Think they are going to hold on to Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins? The Oilers are already on their way to striking a balance between their top six and top four.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree without splitting hairs, but you're helping me point out that even these teams that people are jealous of have latent issues to work out.

 

[deeshamrock]

This. People act like the young teams getting better are doing so in a vacuum, but they're subject to the cap as well; if they start enjoying some success, they're gonna get paid too. Tampa is already coming up on that, for example. It's easy to surround McDavid with talent before you have to pay him; what's gonna happen on his next contract? They've gotta do something with Lucic, Eberle, mayyyybe RNH; and they STILL don't really have their D solved. Matthews is gonna get paid, as are the other youngsters; Gardiner and Reilly are not the answers they need either. A lot of people want to pretend other teams don't have issues. And now that their expectations are to get better in the playoffs, they're not just gonna sit on their thumbs with their prospects.

Toronto's got a fanstastic young team on offense but their D is a mess and their goaltending questionable. They're going to have to pay their offense that's performing, as well as some others to fix up the D and Goaltending. And then? They'll be in the same boat as the other successful teams, trying to find creative solutions for cap management.

Disagree. Their D isn't a 'mess'. It needs a #1 D and that will happen this summer. It can and will improve but it's not a mess. Zaitsev did well for his first NHL season and Reilly is the real deal. Young and needs some seasoning but a top d in the making. Gardner, he is completely different player under Babcock. I watched almost all the Leafs games this year and esp in the playoffs, he was given tough assignments and did fine. They need a legit #1 d and they'll get that this summer. That gives them a good top 4.

They have a very good goalie in Andersen, who will only get better with more games played. I don't think a lot of fans realize how badly Anderson was hurt in the World Cup and missing that and all of training camp isn't easy for any player , esp a goalie. It's time lost that you cannot replace. But from the beg. of Dec on, he was solid and a large part of the reason they were a playoff team, and he was good vs the Caps.
He'll be better next year, when their defense is improved. He's a very good goalie and will be for them for years to come.

As far as the contracts, like any team, you identify what you have to have, which is a top goalie, an elite #1 D and a #1 center, with a solid #2. They have 3 of those 4 now, with the D being filled soon.
So Matthews is their franchise player will get his payday, as will the D they sign/trade for. Marner isn't going anywhere. They have enough talent to fill in the rest.
Every team is facing that choice. And at the post season presser, they made it clear they will be aggressive this summer in getting a top defenseman. Papa Lou won't be sitting idle.
They have a very bright future ahead.