2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[KingsFan7824]

Yeah, he definitely got banged up at some point but his wrist is a long way from his legs. It wasn't just offense but his defensive game as well.

Not sure which one was worse to watch. The lack of goals, or the defensive lapses. Damn it was a bad year for him.

I've got two kids and two bad season for Kopitar. If he has another kid and puts up another off-year, that is a legit trend and will be gospel.

I always try to not think of these things, because I don't even want to know the personal lives of the players, but I guess it's a better excuse than the player got paid on that last big contract and took his foot off the gas.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Dumbass? This guy nailed it.

The Kings have drifted off into the abyss when it comes to being a Stanley Cup contender? CHECK

Rumors Doughty wouldn't be opposed to leaving LA after a great run? CHECK

Doughty is from the Toronto area? CHECK

The Kings can't wait on a big decision like this forever though. The longer they wait the less the return. Either talk to Doughty and get convinced he is going to stay on a reasonable deal, or trade him.

I met Doughty once, he was surprised as hell that I recognized him in a crowd of people . He was like wow are you from Canada? Talked about the blue jays and the Ontario for ten minutes. Cool dude but can't blame him if he wants to go back home and play for the home team.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

You think Colorado is still looking to get rid of Landeskog. Wonder if they would take Muzzin, Brown and a 3rd. Protect Forbort as a 3rd D. Clears about $4million in salary. Colorado has about $18 million in cap space and only one RFA due a major raise that I can see. Kings have about $14 million with two players getting major raises.

Defense would be Doughty, Martinez, McNabb, Forbort, Gravel, LaDue and Greene and maybe a depth UFA

Colorado does not want Muzzin. They want a younger d-man. Rumors were they wanted LaDue to be the centerpiece.

 

[KINGS17]

K17 giving Leafs fan some life.

It's a logical process and potential conclusion.

I don't think Doughty fears the bright lights of Toronto at all. Quite the contrary, I think Doughty would love the attention and the challenge.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Vanek at 1.25? Never gonna happen.

Why is that? He made 1.3 last year and had 2 goals in his last 20 games.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

It's a logical process and potential conclusion.

I don't think Doughty fears the bright lights of Toronto at all. Quite the contrary, I think Doughty would love the attention and the challenge.

Would give him loads more exposure too. And I don't think the Babcock factor can be ignored. Doughty would want to play with Babcock no matter where he was coaching.

 

[tsanuri]

Dumbass? This guy nailed it.

The Kings have drifted off into the abyss when it comes to being a Stanley Cup contender? CHECK

Rumors Doughty wouldn't be opposed to leaving LA after a great run? CHECK

Doughty is from the Toronto area? CHECK

The Kings can't wait on a big decision like this forever though. The longer they wait the less the return. Either talk to Doughty and get convinced he is going to stay on a reasonable deal, or trade him.

They can't even talk with him in ernest until July, 2018. Otherwise it's collusion.
And what do you expect him to even say about wanting to stay? Might he leave sure but until contract talks can actually start and the team truly knows where they are at trading him is a very bad move. Even considering it is a bad move unless someone sells the farm to get him.

 

[KINGS17]

They can't even talk with him in ernest until July, 2018. Otherwise it's collusion.
And what do you expect him to even say about wanting to stay? Might he leave sure but until contract talks can actually start and the team truly knows where they are at trading him is a very bad move. Even considering it is a bad move unless someone sells the farm to get him.

I want Kings management to use their heads.

 

[tsanuri]

I want Kings management to use their heads.

You've advocating the exact opposite in my opinion. You're saying they need to move on it because of trade value. They can't really know the answer to make any informed decision until they start contract tasks. Unless in exit interviews he's made know his displeasure and given hints he wants to leave.

 

[theMajor]

I want Kings management to use their heads.

what is a reasonable trade to you? what is Doughty worth? who replaces him? this is the same exact situation as it was with Kopitar before he re-upped and you didnt have many tangible solutions when it came to him either. this time it makes even less sense because Doughty is one of the best in the entire league at his position

 

[Reclamation Project]

You have to explore all options.

 

[KINGS17]

what is a reasonable trade to you? what is Doughty worth? who replaces him? this is the same exact situation as it was with Kopitar before he re-upped and you didnt have many tangible solutions when it came to him either. this time it makes even less sense because Doughty is one of the best in the entire league at his position

I offered plenty of tangible solutions regarding Kopitar, so don't rewrite history.

I am not going to offer up any regarding Doughty at this time, because it is a waste of my time. People such as yourself don't value the input.

 

[deeshamrock]

You think Colorado is still looking to get rid of Landeskog. Wonder if they would take Muzzin, Brown and a 3rd. Protect Forbort as a 3rd D. Clears about $4million in salary. Colorado has about $18 million in cap space and only one RFA due a major raise that I can see. Kings have about $14 million with two players getting major raises.

Defense would be Doughty, Martinez, McNabb, Forbort, Gravel, LaDue and Greene and maybe a depth UFA

Colorado isn't 'getting rid' of Landeskog, they are looking to trade him for what they feel is equitable assets. And that package wouldn't even rate a phone call back. Other teams are in a better position to give them what they want for Landy and Duchene. Also hearing Barrie might be on be block (which is crazy I think)

 

[deeshamrock]

You have to explore all options.

Which is exactly what Doughty will do and his agent won't have any trouble generating interest. He'll sign where he feels he offers the best chance at success and winning Cup (s). At that time, I don't feel it would be the Kings.
Doughty plays his best hockey under Babcock, has never hidden the fact he loves playing for him. Toronto would be a great fit, by that time they'll be legit Cup contenders.
However, they still have a salary cap to fit into and a lot of blue chip players that will need $$ on new deals by then. Not easy for a GM.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Like others have said, you don't trade a Doughty unless he wants out. This team can still contend with a Doughty patrolling the blueline. They just need to make better decisions in player personnel, but there's no reason why this team can't bounce back.

Look at how long it took the Penguins to get back on top, and how many years of trade rumors they had to deal with involving Malkin's name. Looks like they didn't have to trade him in order to win the Cup again.

They made a big trade for a forward in Kessel and didn't give up much to obtain him, and their biggest contributors outside of their core were from a bunch of young players they injected into the lineup, and role players like Bonino and Daley who were able to elevate their play.

Sure, there should be concern as players like Kopitar, Carter, Brown, Gaborik all age and still consume a healthy amount of cap space, but at least two of those players can still contribute a good amount of offense. They need to do a better job at drafting and developing talent that could support them, like they did with Toffoli and Pearson. They'll need more out of Kempe and Brodzinski, Shore and/or Dowd have to step up and prove themselves. If they can't, they're going to have to look elsewhere for players who can succeed in their roles.

The new management group does have to make some shrewd moves, but this can be fixed, and Doughty is a central figure in getting this team back on top. Now many teams can boast having a defense led by a defenseman of his caliber. You trade a Doughty, then you're going to have to wait for a very long time to find a suitable replacement. Look how long it took for the Kings to replace Blake after trading him in 2001. They had to wait until 2008 when they were fortunate enough to have the 2nd overall selection in one of the deepest drafts in league history.

Before Blake, their best defenseman was Larry Murphy, and they traded him for crap while he was still in his early 20s. This team has only had two defensemen capture the Norris, Rob Blake in 1998 and Drew Doughty in 2016. You only move Doughty if he wants out, and if you move Doughty, you might as well look at trading anyone over 30, and good look doing that with the NTC/NMC that these players have in their contracts.

 

[deeshamrock]

http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/04/11/notes-bits-advance-press-conference-greene-back-surgery/

Interesting take, however:

, I won’t be surprised if the team is more proactive in personnel decisions to secure the most capital possible to acquire skill and speed and boost a moribund offense come late June and early July.

The kings generally do not attract FA's and a lot of players prefer EC due to travel. Also, where is the $$ coming from for these speed and skill players?
The Kings have only 8 forwards signed for next season, and also need Gravel signed and a backup goalie. TT and TP might eat up 10 to 11M of that 14M. LaDue, Brodz and Mersch all need deals as well.
I guess he means a trade, moving AMart or Muzzin for aforward, but that 4M won't buy a top6 player.

Still, refreshing to know that the new front office is thinking outside the old King's box

 

[Legionnaire]

It's a logical process and potential conclusion.

I don't think Doughty fears the bright lights of Toronto at all. Quite the contrary, I think Doughty would love the attention and the challenge.

He could very well sign there in two years. Toronto will be in a prime position to challenge so he'll likely have a better shot at another Cup there.

 

[deeshamrock]

Like others have said, you don't trade a Doughty unless he wants out. This team can still contend with a Doughty patrolling the blueline. They just need to make better decisions in player personnel, but there's no reason why this team can't bounce back.

Look at how long it took the Penguins to get back on top, and how many years of trade rumors they had to deal with involving Malkin's name. Looks like they didn't have to trade him in order to win the Cup again.

They made a big trade for a forward in Kessel and didn't give up much to obtain him, and their biggest contributors outside of their core were from a bunch of young players they injected into the lineup, and role players like Bonino and Daley who were able to elevate their play.

Sure, there should be concern as players like Kopitar, Carter, Brown, Gaborik all age and still consume a healthy amount of cap space, but at least two of those players can still contribute a good amount of offense. They need to do a better job at drafting and developing talent that could support them, like they did with Toffoli and Pearson. They'll need more out of Kempe and Brodzinski, Shore and/or Dowd have to step up and prove themselves. If they can't, they're going to have to look elsewhere for players who can succeed in their roles.

The new management group does have to make some shrewd moves, but this can be fixed, and Doughty is a central figure in getting this team back on top. Now many teams can boast having a defense led by a defenseman of his caliber. You trade a Doughty, then you're going to have to wait for a very long time to find a suitable replacement. Look how long it took for the Kings to replace Blake after trading him in 2001. They had to wait until 2008 when they were fortunate enough to have the 2nd overall selection in one of the deepest drafts in league history.

Before Blake, their best defenseman was Larry Murphy, and they traded him for crap while he was still in his early 20s. This team has only had two defensemen capture the Norris, Rob Blake in 1998 and Drew Doughty in 2016. You only move Doughty if he wants out, and if you move Doughty, you might as well look at trading anyone over 30, and good look doing that with the NTC/NMC that these players have in their contracts.

True, unless you can't afford to keep him. Doughty will get at least 10M, add that to Kopi's 10M, and doesn't that handcuff them? And eventually, Carter will have to be replaced at center, 2 years from now, when Doughty's contract is up, he'll be pushing 35. Kempe develops into that 2C, maybe. But if not, that's another hole.
Not an easy decision...esp given the changing environment in the division and conference. Making that 4th position to get into the playoffs won't be easy. Calgary will get Bishop or Fluery, that makes them better, Edmonton is already better and will continue to rise. Ducks usually are competitive enough in the reg season to get in, SHarks, will upgrade , if they are smart enough to move on from Thorton and Marleau. They have a good defense and goaltender and good forwards.
But you're right, it's all up to Drew and where he feels his best chance of success lies for the 8 yrs of this next deal.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Interesting take, however:



The kings generally do not attract FA's and a lot of players prefer EC due to travel. Also, where is the $$ coming from for these speed and skill players?
The Kings have only 8 forwards signed for next season, and also need Gravel signed and a backup goalie. TT and TP might eat up 10 to 11M of that 14M. LaDue, Brodz and Mersch all need deals as well.
I guess he means a trade, moving AMart or Muzzin for aforward, but that 4M won't buy a top6 player.

Still, refreshing to know that the new front office is thinking outside the old King's box

One way to gain some flexibility is that Greene is all but guaranteed to go on LTIR next year and they lose Lewis or McNabb in the expansion, just gained $4.2M or more, giving them almost $19M in space (but with only 13 players), obviously Pearson and Toffoli will take up $10M+ of that, plus all of the guys you mentioned as well as Shore and Andreoff need new deals.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

A lot of armchair GMing going on around here. Gonna be a long offseason.

 

[Reclamation Project]

You're on a hockey forum, isn't that the whole point?

Blake has a ton of work this offseason. Some ugly deals on the books.

 

[AlphaBravo]

A lot of armchair GMing going on around here. Gonna be a long offseason.

We have to help Blake out. He is new to the GM job.

 

[theMajor]

I offered plenty of tangible solutions regarding Kopitar, so don't rewrite history.

I am not going to offer up any regarding Doughty at this time, because it is a waste of my time. People such as yourself don't value the input.

cmon, hit me with three or four sentences with what you'd do. I do value your opinions and I know you care about this team, I just dont always agree with you.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Why is that? He made 1.3 last year and had 2 goals in his last 20 games.

So after having a 50 point season you think he'll settle for less money?

C'mon man.

 

[Bandit]

So after having a 50 point season you think he'll settle for less money?

C'mon man.

Seriously... 50 points is Kopitar territory.