2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[funky]

Don't take this the wrong way but it seems like all you want to do is cry over spilt milk.

- Trump got elected
- The Kardashians are celebrities
- There will be another Pirates of the Caribbean movie
- Kopitar, Quick, Brown and Gaborik are with us for the duration of their contracts

Accept it. It's not changing, and there's no point going on and on about things that can only be fixed with a DeLorean and some stolen plutonium.

Awesome analogy. Made me laugh. Thanks

 

[kings11]

Did anyone else notice that Pierre LeBrun twitter that we are engaged in heavy trade talks with the Leafs???
Drew Doughty seems to be the target yet no one else is reporting anything???

NVM, some overzealous leafs fan created a fake LeBrun account...

 

[kovacro]

Disagree. Their D isn't a 'mess'. It needs a #1 D and that will happen this summer. It can and will improve but it's not a mess. Zaitsev did well for his first NHL season and Reilly is the real deal. Young and needs some seasoning but a top d in the making. Gardner, he is completely different player under Babcock. I watched almost all the Leafs games this year and esp in the playoffs, he was given tough assignments and did fine. They need a legit #1 d and they'll get that this summer. That gives them a good top 4.

They have a very good goalie in Andersen, who will only get better with more games played. I don't think a lot of fans realize how badly Anderson was hurt in the World Cup and missing that and all of training camp isn't easy for any player , esp a goalie. It's time lost that you cannot replace. But from the beg. of Dec on, he was solid and a large part of the reason they were a playoff team, and he was good vs the Caps.
He'll be better next year, when their defense is improved. He's a very good goalie and will be fore

As far as the contracts, like any team, you identify what you have to have, which is a top goalie, an elite #1 D and a #1 center, with a solid #2. They have 3 of those 4 now, with the D being filled soon.
So Matthews is their franchise player will get his payday, as will the D they sign/trade for. Marner isn't going anywhere. They have enough talent to fill in the rest.
Every team is facing that choice. And at the post season presser, they made it clear they will be aggressive this summer in getting a top defenseman. Papa Lou won't be sitting idle.
They have a very bright future ahead.

Agree here 100% with your summary as much as it pains me to say as I don't care for the Leafs.

I still think they deal Nylander to get that solid number one defenseman they will be looking for. I wouldn't go after a Alzner or Shattenkirk, let someone else overpay, they're not top pairing guys.

They have good young options within the forward ranks (Hyman, Brown, Soshnikov, etc.) I think they can absorb the loss of a Nylander. Deal from an area of strength to help out an area of need.

Why upset the apple cart bringing one of those guys anyhow, they both are not as good as Reilly and should not be making more than he is.

Gardiner has been like night and day compared to last season.

Leafs are in a very solid position to be a top level team for the forseeable future.

 

[kings11]

Agree here 100% with your summary as much as it pains me to say as I don't care for the Leafs.

I still think they deal Nylander to get that solid number one defenseman they will be looking for. I wouldn't go after a Alzner or Shattenkirk, let someone else overpay, they're not top pairing guys.

They have good young options within the forward ranks (Hyman, Brown, Soshnikov, etc.) I think they can absorb the loss of a Nylander. Deal from an area of strength to help out an area of need.

Why upset the apple cart bringing one of those guys anyhow, they both are not as good as Reilly and should not be making more than he is.

Gardiner has been like night and day compared to last season.

Leafs are in a very solid position to be a top level team for the forseeable future.

Maybe we can offer up a win/win trade scenario??

Muzin/Martinez+ for Jesse Puljujärvi...

 

[deeshamrock]

People act like Toronto can't sacrifice one of Marner or Nylander and still not be a cup contender if they also have the best defenseman on the planet. Toronto is going to have to balance out there top six and their top four. They have the assets to do it.

Same holds true for Edmonton. Think they are going to hold on to Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins? The Oilers are already on their way to striking a balance between their top six and top four.

I don't. I don't think they can. They need the 12M that will bring back to sign among others, Draisadl (Contract ends this year and he will get $$) and Nurse and McDavid next year. This yr they have 7 forwards with expiring contracts and 3 D, next year a few more including Slepyshev.
It's the way of the NHL now.

 

[kings11]

I don't. I don't think they can. They need the 12M that will bring back to sign among others, Draisadl (Contract ends this year and he will get $$) and Nurse and McDavid next year. This yr they have 7 forwards with expiring contracts and 3 D, next year a few more including Slepyshev.
It's the way of the NHL now.

Or maybe they move Lucic and/or Sekera if they acquire a Dman on a good contract.

cough...cough.... Muzzin/Amart.. lol

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Disagree. Their D isn't a 'mess'. It needs a #1 D and that will happen this summer. It can and will improve but it's not a mess. Zaitsev did well for his first NHL season and Reilly is the real deal. Young and needs some seasoning but a top d in the making. Gardner, he is completely different player under Babcock. I watched almost all the Leafs games this year and esp in the playoffs, he was given tough assignments and did fine. They need a legit #1 d and they'll get that this summer. That gives them a good top 4.

They have a very good goalie in Andersen, who will only get better with more games played. I don't think a lot of fans realize how badly Anderson was hurt in the World Cup and missing that and all of training camp isn't easy for any player , esp a goalie. It's time lost that you cannot replace. But from the beg. of Dec on, he was solid and a large part of the reason they were a playoff team, and he was good vs the Caps.
He'll be better next year, when their defense is improved. He's a very good goalie and will be for them for years to come.

Oh, okay, they just need a legit #1 d. How many teams say that and do it? Toronto certainly has the assets, but they need to pull the trigger on something to make it happen, and my point was more about roster management and salaries than flat out talent; they have good players, but my point is they're going to have to get PAID or shipped out. They have holes, just like any other franchise, and #1 d is a significant one. It's gonna start getting expensive--Reilly makes 5 million a year thru 2020, he COULD be a good #2, but he's in over his head as a #1. Gardener is awesome, no issue with him, but he makes more than Jake Muzzin. Zaitsev emerged, but he's an RFA--what pay raise does he get, and can he carry it going forward? That's sort of a huge question mark. Marchenko, Marincin, et. al. are nice little pieces, but they aren't difference makers. Hence, a top 3 of Reilly, Zaitsev, Gardener? Sorry, that's a relatively expensive but inadequate top 3, and a #1 is a very significant piece missing in terms of what it will cost them, so my point that these teams that folks are envying still have holes is valid.

Also, sorry, we've seen enough of Andersen choking on soft goals, I'm never going to be sold on him. He's a good volume guy, nothing more. Adequate, but will need a superb d-core, because he's not going to be the guy to get a team over the hump.

I never said they weren't a good team in a good position. Only that they have holes just like anyone else and they will be costly to fill, and it's only a matter of time before the cap becomes a bigger concern.

 

[deeshamrock]

Bob McKenzie today on the subject of Drew Doughty and his future in LA or ??

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mckenzie-think-doughty-untouchable-kings/

Pretty much what we've been tossing around, the ball is in Drew's court. He said he considers him an untouchable for the Kings unless DD indicates he doesn't wish to be extended. And in that case it wouldn't happen until next summer.

DD as a Leaf?

“Well, yeah. In a vacuum, having Drew Doughty on the Toronto Maple Leafs would make all the sense in the world. But he’s got two years left on his contract. He’s not going anywhere in the immediate future. And only a year this July 1 would the Kings determine that it might be in their best interests to trade him, but it might very well be in their best interests to sign him to a five or seven-year deal.â€

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't even want to think about it, but I'd rather Drew end up in TO than anywhere else, and nowhere but TO or Edmonton makes sense to me.

The non-LA fan in me would love to see Karlsson and Doughty on TO and Edmonton.

Then the LA fan slaps me in the face and goes outside to stop hyperventilating.

 

[kings11]

Bob McKenzie today on the subject of Drew Doughty and his future in LA or ??

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mckenzie-think-doughty-untouchable-kings/

Pretty much what we've been tossing around, the ball is in Drew's court. He said he considers him an untouchable for the Kings unless DD indicates he doesn't wish to be extended. And in that case it wouldn't happen until next summer.

DD as a Leaf?

I think Donuts sticks around and signs a slightly undervalued deal.. think $8.5-$9.5 million per.. along with the exodus of both Muzzin and Martinez over the next two seasons...

So heres hoping the kids turn out to being more than just serviceable NHL players..

 

[KINGS17]

I think Donuts sticks around and signs a slightly undervalued deal.. think $8.5-$9.5 million per.. along with the exodus of both Muzzin and Martinez over the next two seasons...

So heres hoping the kids turn out to being more than just serviceable NHL players..

Uh, why would he do this after what Kopitar did in his contract negotiation?

 

[CowMix]

Doughty will refuse to take less than Kopitar, same thing happened on his last contract negotiation when he got 7 and Kopitar was at 6.8.

Doughty's next contract will probably also be slightly above 10 million.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I think Donuts sticks around and signs a slightly undervalued deal.. think $8.5-$9.5 million per.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Just like everyone said Kopitar would take a discount, but then he bent Dean over.

No NHL player will give a discount of a few million, and especially not one that lives in a tax hell like California. Doughty starts at 11 million per.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

He's already earning $7M and Subban is getting $9M.

What do you guys think Doughty will go for? Only $1M more than what he's already earning? I doubt that. What do you think he'll get in the open market? Meehan is no dummy, and the Kings know what they're going to have to compete with when they approach negotiations.

Erik Karlsson will also be a UFA in 2019. I expect both teams will try to secure extensions by next summer.

 

[Fishhead]

Another reason Doughty won't be taking a discount is because CBA negotiations will be right around the corner. There have been rollbacks in the past, and even though that might be unlikely, why risk it? Players might even miss time/salary again, there is no incentive for an elite player to do any favors.

Young blue-chip guy, developing team, minimal leverage? Sure. Proven winner with 2 cups and a Norris? Nope.

 

[deeshamrock]

I think Donuts sticks around and signs a slightly undervalued deal.. think $8.5-$9.5 million per.. along with the exodus of both Muzzin and Martinez over the next two seasons...

So heres hoping the kids turn out to being more than just serviceable NHL players..

Disagree. He's the best D in the game, and his agent knows it. He'll get in the 11M neighborhood. IMO , he's more valuable that Kopi, and Kopi got 10. And given what lesser D's signed for. This will be his last LTC and he'll get paid $$$

That's why when they talk to him after July 1, both he and Blake, Luc need to be honest.

 

[Primakov!]

They can't even talk with him in ernest until July, 2018. Otherwise it's collusion.

Tampering is probably the term you are looking for since collusion is when a group works together to artificially force a certain outcome.

An example would be if all the NHL team owners got together and decided that absolutely nobody is paying Drew Doughty more than $4 million dollars to control how much money he could make.

 

[KINGS17]

Another reason Doughty won't be taking a discount is because CBA negotiations will be right around the corner. There have been rollbacks in the past, and even though that might be unlikely, why risk it? Players might even miss time/salary again, there is no incentive for an elite player to do any favors.

Young blue-chip guy, developing team, minimal leverage? Sure. Proven winner with 2 cups and a Norris? Nope.

Yup, and he is going to ask for as much of it as possible in signing bonuses.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Like Kopitar, and any big name player reaching his UFA age, Doughty has the leverage. The Kings need him more than he needs to the Kings, so if he wants to sign with the Kings, the Kings will give him what he wants, regardless of the consequences to the rest of the roster. The alternative is a big name leaving your team, which just opens up more questions about the state of your franchise. That's why all of these players still get all the money. When Parise left NJ, that led to more questions about the Devils franchise, from top to bottom, and they're still not good 5 years later. Suter left Nashville, and then they missed the playoffs the next 2 seasons. They happened to get Jones out of doing so, but there's no way to know they're going to end up with him just a year after losing Suter. The Preds wanted to keep him anyway, Suter just wanted to go closer to home.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Great, so if Doughty gets 10-11 million and Kopitar is at 10...

With those 2 taking up 20 million, will have to fill out the roster with about 8 guys under 1 million. Sucks.

no wonder Blake is going after college free agent guys like Iafallo, Pionk, Foo, etc....and Euros like Frantenberg. Makes sense, since he will need lots of under 1 million dollar players on the roster and Ontario does not have top talent emerging. Once Kempe, Brodzinski and LaDue make the jump, not a lot of talent there. Amadio and a few others might have NHL promise, but the Kings are going to need to un earth cheap talent somewhere. The #1 pick MUST be a cannot miss player, that can play in 2 years. Seriously. And one of Iafallo, Wagner, Watson, had better get to the Toffoli / Pearson level.
Hell, want to see Toffoli get back to the Toffoli level!

Spencer Watson is showing some promise, with 14 goals in 14 OHL playoff games.
Wagner has 12 goals in 14 playoff games and he skates faster than: Pearson, Carter, or Kempe.
I hope he busts 30 goals in the AHL next year. He just might.

Since Kopi has NMC, perhaps trading DD may be the best way to come out of this.
Such a shame. The return would be good enough to not do a rebuild...just a retool.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Toffoli and Pearson should be offered identical 5 year/$21.25 deals.

 

[BigKing]

Great, so if Doughty gets 10-11 million and Kopitar is at 10...

With those 2 taking up 20 million, will have to fill out the roster with about 8 guys under 1 million. Sucks.

no wonder Blake is going after college free agent guys like Iafallo, Pionk, Foo, etc....and Euros like Frantenberg. Makes sense, since he will need lots of under 1 million dollar players on the roster and Ontario does not have top talent emerging. Once Kempe, Brodzinski and LaDue make the jump, not a lot of talent there. Amadio and a few others might have NHL promise, but the Kings are going to need to un earth cheap talent somewhere. The #1 pick MUST be a cannot miss player, that can play in 2 years. Seriously. And one of Iafallo, Wagner, Watson, had better get to the Toffoli / Pearson level.
Hell, want to see Toffoli get back to the Toffoli level!

Spencer Watson is showing some promise, with 14 goals in 14 OHL playoff games.
Wagner has 12 goals in 14 playoff games and he skates faster than: Pearson, Carter, or Kempe.
I hope he busts 30 goals in the AHL next year. He just might.

Since Kopi has NMC, perhaps trading DD may be the best way to come out of this.
Such a shame. The return would be good enough to not do a rebuild...just a retool.

Hence the crowing about trading away 1st round picks along with busting on or trading their 2nd round picks since 2011, including Cernak for Bishop just this past season.

There is a bit of a cavalry coming but they don't appear to be game changers. Just like last season, this team can not afford injuries--not even one--to certain players AND the best players have to put in good seasons. Really pulling for Brodz to be a 20 goal guy with that shot of his. Management is going to have to move away from the low and slow cooking method on prospects and speed up the process for cap purposes. Wagner shouldn't be able to jump from WHL to NHL immediately, but I would not be surprised if he or Iafalo are on the opening night roster due to their respective wheels.

Most teams are in that boat, don't get me wrong. That's why there aren't a lot of "legit" contenders. That could change for LA if the prospects out perform expectations but I'm not getting fooled with that type of hoping anymore after getting caught up in Lehoux, Pushkarev and all the other "just wait till he's here" prospects that LA has had.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hence the crowing about trading away 1st round picks along with busting on or trading their 2nd round picks since 2011, including Cernak for Bishop just this past season.

There is a bit of a cavalry coming but they don't appear to be game changers. Just like last season, this team can not afford injuries--not even one--to certain players AND the best players have to put in good seasons. Really pulling for Brodz to be a 20 goal guy with that shot of his. Management is going to have to move away from the low and slow cooking method on prospects and speed up the process for cap purposes. Wagner shouldn't be able to jump from WHL to NHL immediately, but I would not be surprised if he or Iafalo are on the opening night roster due to their respective wheels.

Most teams are in that boat, don't get me wrong. That's why there aren't a lot of "legit" contenders. That could change for LA if the prospects out perform expectations but I'm not getting fooled with that type of hoping anymore after getting caught up in Lehoux, Pushkarev and all the other "just wait till he's here" prospects that LA has had.

This is a very important point that gets glossed over here imo.

 

[Little Psycho]

I can't imagine this team without Drew, he has been my favorite since he joined the Kings. Gotta leave this thread before I start hyperventilating.

 

[KINGS17]

This is a very important point that gets glossed over here imo.

It's not getting glossed over. If your team isn't a legit contender, or isn't a young up and coming team, what should the smart GM be doing?