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2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part III

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fsanford said:
There is a point in time where a GM has to go for it, Dean was amazing. And there is a point in time where he has to figure out a way of keeping it going taking emotion out of the equation.

Truth of the matter is some guys are builders, and others who are better at maintaining and tweaking so it does not become stale. Dean was great at the building piece, I question if he has the skill set to maintain things. Guess will see..
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I think the schism you're seeing at this point is between people who are glad he continued to go for it even at the risk of the future and those who disagree with that philosophy. I don't think there's a 'right answer' to be honest, but I'm sure glad we have a GM who took big swings at the perfect times, even if he's gonna go down swinging.

Every GM looks good until they look bad. How many win and then go out on top? Ken Holland should be a legend, but right now he's a goat. That's how the business works. Especially with the systems in place currently, even the greatest GMs infrequently get the appropriate praise. Win, or you're awful.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I think the schism you're seeing at this point is between people who are glad he continued to go for it even at the risk of the future and those who disagree with that philosophy. I don't think there's a 'right answer' to be honest, but I'm sure glad we have a GM who took big swings at the perfect times, even if he's gonna go down swinging.

Every GM looks good until they look bad. How many win and then go out on top? Ken Holland should be a legend, but right now he's a goat. That's how the business works. Especially with the systems in place currently, even the greatest GMs infrequently get the appropriate praise. Win, or you're awful.
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Look at Sather's decision making after he led the Oilers to five Stanley Cups.

The Red Wings decline started with the retirement of Nick Lidstrom and it's gone all downhill from there for them and they're going to take quite a few years to recover.

It's the unenviable position of returning to the black hole that we wanted to see this team avoid. The team started to grow and show signs of competitiveness when Terry Murray came along. By 2010, they started to prove themselves as a playoff team. That core grew to win two Cups with a Conference Finals run sandwiched between them.

After that three-year period, a series of bad decisions has set the team back. You add up the failure to apply a compliance buyout on Richards, the Gaborik extension, the Greene extension, and acquiring quick when most of us acknowledged this team had too many problems to contend for a Cup in 2015 and 2016 all point to signs of a GM who lacks foresight.

The big mystery is, how does the team get out of this sticky situation? They're one of the oldest teams in the league with very little cap flexibility. If you can't move any bad contracts, what other options are there to shed salary and to retain all of the upcoming RFAs over the next two years?

How do you convince Doughty that this team is moving ahead and can still contend for a Stanley Cup when his contract is up? I'm trying to think ahead to see what the long term plans are. Let's be honest, the current plans don't involve a Stanley Cup.

I would hope the game plan is to recover after three seasons by restocking and replenishing the pipeline, and to reform a balanced lineup that can compete for a Cup again.

It did take the Penguins seven seasons to recover from 2009, but it took a new GM, new coach, a new starting goalie, some homegrown talent and some key acquisitions to bring that team back to the top.

And despite their struggles between 2009 and 2016, they never did miss the playoffs.
 
Not that it would be a major loss here, but I'd watch for us for Zatkoff. We don't have a goalie to expose in the expansion draft yet. Hextall insinuated recently that it would be an easy fix. For some reason, Deano gave him a 2-year deal. I'm guessing he had the same idea I have.
 
GKJ said:
Not that it would be a major loss here, but I'd watch for us for Zatkoff. We don't have a goalie to expose in the expansion draft yet. Hextall insinuated recently that it would be an easy fix. For some reason, Deano gave him a 2-year deal. I'm guessing he had the same idea I have.
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IT would be the most Kings thing ever to lose Zatkoff to waivers and Campbell to the expansion draft.
 
Better than losing O'Donnell and Timmonen.

What would be so Kings would be to lose McNabb and have him go on to play for another 12 seasons at a consistent level while also making some sort of trade to shelter a piece of trash from the draft with the pick/prospect going the other way turning in a 16 year, 5 All-Star game appearances career.

Lose Zatkoff and Campbell? Based on prior history, we should be so fortunate!
 
AlphaBravo said:
I remember the early 2000s very clearly, and I can safely say that Zats is one of the worst goalies we have ever had. I mean worse than Fiset, Storr, Cloutier, LOLbarbara et al.
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Stellar list you got there. Personally, I would add in the unibrow.
 
Zatkoff has put in the worst performance I've witnessed during my time as a "watch-every-game" guy. So that probably starts with Dafoe to the present.

When you factor in the era, the system and the talent in front of him, it is pretty hard to not consider Zatkoff the worst.

I still kind of think Uni-Brow wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.
 
AlphaBravo said:
I remember the early 2000s very clearly, and I can safely say that Zats is one of the worst goalies we have ever had. I mean worse than Fiset, Storr, Cloutier, LOLbarbara et al.
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You must have not been around for a majority of the 80's. There was some real drek between the pipes during that era.
 
BigKing said:
Zatkoff has put in the worst performance I've witnessed during my time as a "watch-every-game" guy. So that probably starts with Dafoe to the present.

When you factor in the era, the system and the talent in front of him, it is pretty hard to not consider Zatkoff the worst.

I still kind of think Uni-Brow wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.
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Cechmanek wasn't that bad. Zatloss is in Chabot, Stauber, Legace, Cloutier territory.
 
GKJ said:
Not that it would be a major loss here, but I'd watch for us for Zatkoff. We don't have a goalie to expose in the expansion draft yet. Hextall insinuated recently that it would be an easy fix. For some reason, Deano gave him a 2-year deal. I'm guessing he had the same idea I have.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell you have to expose 2 forwards and 1 defenceman that played 40 games this season or at least 70 in the prior two, but the goaltender does not have a games played requirement, they just have to be signed for 2017-18. Therefore, I don't see any reason why Dean can't just sign Billy Ranford to a 1 year league minimum deal and have him "retire" again after the expansion draft.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Look at Sather's decision making after he led the Oilers to five Stanley Cups.

The Red Wings decline started with the retirement of Nick Lidstrom and it's gone all downhill from there for them and they're going to take quite a few years to recover.

It's the unenviable position of returning to the black hole that we wanted to see this team avoid. The team started to grow and show signs of competitiveness when Terry Murray came along. By 2010, they started to prove themselves as a playoff team. That core grew to win two Cups with a Conference Finals run sandwiched between them.

After that three-year period, a series of bad decisions has set the team back. You add up the failure to apply a compliance buyout on Richards, the Gaborik extension, the Greene extension, and acquiring quick when most of us acknowledged this team had too many problems to contend for a Cup in 2015 and 2016 all point to signs of a GM who lacks foresight.

The big mystery is, how does the team get out of this sticky situation? They're one of the oldest teams in the league with very little cap flexibility. If you can't move any bad contracts, what other options are there to shed salary and to retain all of the upcoming RFAs over the next two years?

How do you convince Doughty that this team is moving ahead and can still contend for a Stanley Cup when his contract is up? I'm trying to think ahead to see what the long term plans are. Let's be honest, the current plans don't involve a Stanley Cup.

I would hope the game plan is to recover after three seasons by restocking and replenishing the pipeline, and to reform a balanced lineup that can compete for a Cup again.

It did take the Penguins seven seasons to recover from 2009, but it took a new GM, new coach, a new starting goalie, some homegrown talent and some key acquisitions to bring that team back to the top.

And despite their struggles between 2009 and 2016, they never did miss the playoffs.
Click to expand...

And all they ended up was in the black hole of drafting. Larkin is their best offensive prospect they drafted during that time and have never been a serious cup contender. They've been living off their playoff rep for years and as impressive as it is, the media continuously feed us it as if they've been contenders all those years. Their rebuild should've started years ago instead of always pushing to make the playoffs in a futile effort to keep the steak alive.
 
Zatkoff on waivers doesn't make sense to me. It's not like we're awash with guys that can play goal, even at a mediocre level, in the ahl. As ****** as Zatkoff has been the Kings could use either him or Campbell in the AHL next year, if not both.
 
Bandit said:
Zatkoff on waivers doesn't make sense to me. It's not like we're awash with guys that can play goal, even at a mediocre level, in the ahl. As ****** as Zatkoff has been the Kings could use either him or Campbell in the AHL next year, if not both.
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Once Zatkoff clears waivers tomorrow, they will keep him on the active NHL roster for less than 30 days (and 10 games, which he would not get), until Quick returns. Then Zatkoff will go down to ONT having already cleared waivers and team up with Campbell to finally give Campbell a break (he has started 33 consecutive games). Stothers has no confidence in Flinn.
 
No love for Adam Hauser?

His career stat line is awesome.

0-1-0 .750% 7.06GAA
 
Fuhr was the worst of them all, because he just didn't care. He was totally going through the motions and couldn't wait to be elsewhere.

That to me is the worst, when a guy completely quits on his team and has one foot out the door. We've seen it in LA with Fuhr, Stevens, Khristich and Smyth.
 
Points per game differences from last year to this year:

Pearson, +.14
Brown, +.13
Lewis, +.11
Nolan, +.10
Carter, +.09
Martinez, +.07
Clifford, +.03
Shore, +.02
King, -.04
McNabb, -.04
Doughty, -.06
Gaborik, -.06
Lecavalier to Dowd, -.07
Toffoli, -.16
Muzzin, -.18
Kopitar, -.29
Lucic at a $3m cap hit, -.68

Gaborik's isn't bad, except he wasn't good last year, so he's going down from less then average. The improvements by Pearson and Brown are canceled out by the disappearance of Kopitar offensively. No Lucic, plus Muzzin and Toffoli are down, all of which more than help to negate Carter's current season.

The 3 biggest swings, or 4 if you're counting Lucic, are all to the negative side, not the positive. Fortunately, or unfortunately, Budaj's numbers are basically on par with Quick's last year. Maybe as a collective team they're playing more conservatively because Quick is out, but if they are, it hasn't hurt everyone's production. Add up all the guys on the plus side, and it comes out to .69 points per game, which is equal to the number for Lucic last year, so they've essentially made up those lost points through guys that were already on the roster. Add up Toffoli, Muzzin, and Kopitar, and it's -.63 points per game, which is, essentially, the team having lost Lucic and not replacing him.

The story of the season is Kopitar, Toffoli, and Muzzin. Kopitar got hurt, and who knows how long it bothered him, if it's still bothering him, etc. He also had just 2 goals in 15 games before his injury. Toffoli, 8 goals in the 32 games before his injury, which over 82 games would be 20.5. Now he's at 10 goals in 40 games, which is, 20.5 over 82. So 30 goal guy, to 20 goal guy. Then of course the alien life form that subsumed Muzzin over the summer.
 
Herby said:
Fuhr was the worst of them all, because he just didn't care. He was totally going through the motions and couldn't wait to be elsewhere.

That to me is the worst, when a guy completely quits on his team and has one foot out the door. We've seen it in LA with Fuhr, Stevens, Khristich and Smyth.
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Fuhr and Stevens allegedly had off ice issues during their tenures as LA Kings. Smyth apparently had a nagging wife who talked her way out of a Stanley Cup in LA, I'm sure that is never brought up when there's an argument at home.
 
KingsFan7824 said:
Points per game differences from last year to this year:

Pearson, +.14
Brown, +.13
Lewis, +.11
Nolan, +.10
Carter, +.09
Martinez, +.07
Clifford, +.03
Shore, +.02
King, -.04
McNabb, -.04
Doughty, -.06
Gaborik, -.06
Lecavalier to Dowd, -.07
Toffoli, -.16
Muzzin, -.18
Kopitar, -.29
Lucic at a $3m cap hit, -.68

Gaborik's isn't bad, except he wasn't good last year, so he's going down from less then average. The improvements by Pearson and Brown are canceled out by the disappearance of Kopitar offensively. No Lucic, plus Muzzin and Toffoli are down, all of which more than help to negate Carter's current season.

The 3 biggest swings, or 4 if you're counting Lucic, are all to the negative side, not the positive. Fortunately, or unfortunately, Budaj's numbers are basically on par with Quick's last year. Maybe as a collective team they're playing more conservatively because Quick is out, but if they are, it hasn't hurt everyone's production. Add up all the guys on the plus side, and it comes out to .69 points per game, which is equal to the number for Lucic last year, so they've essentially made up those lost points through guys that were already on the roster. Add up Toffoli, Muzzin, and Kopitar, and it's -.63 points per game, which is, essentially, the team having lost Lucic and not replacing him.

The story of the season is Kopitar, Toffoli, and Muzzin. Kopitar got hurt, and who knows how long it bothered him, if it's still bothering him, etc. He also had just 2 goals in 15 games before his injury. Toffoli, 8 goals in the 32 games before his injury, which over 82 games would be 20.5. Now he's at 10 goals in 40 games, which is, 20.5 over 82. So 30 goal guy, to 20 goal guy. Then of course the alien life form that subsumed Muzzin over the summer.
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Good list. Dowd is listed as the 3C on the depth chart which is probably the most difficult job in hockey-deciding who is where on the LA Kings depth chart. Dowd and his minus 15 is a huge mark against the Kings. Sutter relies heavily on the 3C, we saw it last year from Vinny, Stoll before him and Dowd's current stat line of 4-13-17, 59 shots on goal and -15 isn't cutting it. If you're not gonna produce offense and you're bad defensively there's an issue and if you look at the entire bottom 6 they don't score goals-33 combined and their -24 combined shows they don't keep the puck out of the net either.
 
The Tikkanen said:
Good list. Dowd is listed as the 3C on the depth chart which is probably the most difficult job in hockey-deciding who is where on the LA Kings depth chart. Dowd and his minus 15 is a huge mark against the Kings. Sutter relies heavily on the 3C, we saw it last year from Vinny, Stoll before him and Dowd's current stat line of 4-13-17, 59 shots on goal and -15 isn't cutting it. If you're not gonna produce offense and you're bad defensively there's an issue and if you look at the entire bottom 6 they don't score goals-33 combined and their -24 combined shows they don't keep the puck out of the net either.
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Especially on the road, where Dowd is a -13, while currently 10th in road ice time for the forwards still here. That can be the price of a rookie. Plus he's only got 2 goals and 3 points at ES on the road.
 
you know the season is a failure when you're refreshing a page regarding Zatkoff's waiver status lol (which is what i'm doing)
 
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