2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part III

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McNabb clearly struggles with confidence issues. His first full season here was when he looked to play at his best, until Sutter decided to make him a healthy scratch in favor of Matt Greene and for some reason he didn't produce like that ever again.

He is indecisive with the puck, takes too long to shoot (which is why his shots often get blocked and never make it to the net), and he's made several boneheaded passes on breakouts that directly lead to turnovers that trapped the Kings in their own end of the ice.

I actually thought he had a lot of promise, but he's regressed over the past two seasons.
 
McNabb clearly struggles with confidence issues. His first full season here was when he looked to play at his best, until Sutter decided to make him a healthy scratch in favor of Matt Greene and for some reason he didn't produce like that ever again.

He is indecisive with the puck, takes too long to shoot (which is why his shots often get blocked and never make it to the net), and he's made several boneheaded passes on breakouts that directly lead to turnovers that trapped the Kings in their own end of the ice.

I actually thought he had a lot of promise, but he's regressed over the past two seasons.

Muzzin too. Maybe they should send those two guys to a therapist.
 
McNabb clearly struggles with confidence issues. His first full season here was when he looked to play at his best, until Sutter decided to make him a healthy scratch in favor of Matt Greene and for some reason he didn't produce like that ever again.

He is indecisive with the puck, takes too long to shoot (which is why his shots often get blocked and never make it to the net), and he's made several boneheaded passes on breakouts that directly lead to turnovers that trapped the Kings in their own end of the ice.

I actually thought he had a lot of promise, but he's regressed over the past two seasons.

I agree with confidence, but I think it delves a bit deeper.

I think with McNabb, he looked better at the start because a lot of rookies are encouraged to "find his game." This is encouraged to boost confidence, since so much is mental.

Now that he's established his game at the NHL level, he has to adapt it into a higher level of structure.

This isn't to say it's the Kings' fault or Sutter. It's just about trying to take his game to the next level. And I think this is where he's struggling.
 
And what is funny about that? He's got a valid point. And Sutter is not a McNabb fan and that doesn't help. I liked McNabb and liked that trade but I think with a different coach, things would be different. You really thing Forbort would be a top 4 D on any other team?

I didn't like how he claimed that McNabb was far superior than Forbort, because that's simply not true, so I laughed about it. It's just my opinion, man.
 
McNabb clearly struggles with confidence issues. His first full season here was when he looked to play at his best, until Sutter decided to make him a healthy scratch in favor of Matt Greene and for some reason he didn't produce like that ever again.

He is indecisive with the puck, takes too long to shoot (which is why his shots often get blocked and never make it to the net), and he's made several boneheaded passes on breakouts that directly lead to turnovers that trapped the Kings in their own end of the ice.

I actually thought he had a lot of promise, but he's regressed over the past two seasons.

I thought his best was last year with Drew, he was hitting and playing great defense. Teams simply weren't scoring when he was on the ice. It was one of Drew's best seasons as well. They've played very well together whenever they are paired, it's just one of those things.
 
Last year, McNabb had a stellar first 1/3 of the season, a rough middle 3rd, and a pretty abysmal back 1/3. It's tough trying to figure out which one is him. i'm not sure he has the footspeed to be a full time #2 like Forbort does, but at least he's working on it, and everything else he displayed on the positive side shows he DOES have tools, just need to see which dude shows up for next season I guess, since he looked VERY good before getting smashed this year too. He's very up and down.
 
Last year, McNabb had a stellar first 1/3 of the season, a rough middle 3rd, and a pretty abysmal back 1/3. It's tough trying to figure out which one is him. i'm not sure he has the footspeed to be a full time #2 like Forbort does, but at least he's working on it, and everything else he displayed on the positive side shows he DOES have tools, just need to see which dude shows up for next season I guess, since he looked VERY good before getting smashed this year too. He's very up and down.

McNabb is the only defenseman the Kings have providing the kind of physical play we used to see from guys like Mitchell, Regehr, and Greene.

If he can gain some experience and learn from his mistakes, and not all players do, he can be effective in the NHL. If I was the Vegas GM, I would take a flyer on him.
 
I'd like to see some trades this off-season...

McNabb to Winnipeg for Dano.

Nolan + 3Rd to Tampa for Namestnikov

Clifford to Boston for K. Miller

Pearson--Kopitar--Toffoli
Namestnikov--Carter--Brodz
Brown--Kempe--Dano
Mersch--Dowd--Lewis
Shore, Auger

Forbort--Doughty
Muzzin--LaDue
Martinez--K. Miller
Gravel

Quick
XXX
 
Since Sutter put his system in place...

David Johnson‏ @hockeyanalysis · Mar 25

@hugotwigg Since 2011-12 LA has finished 30th, 19th, 29th, 17th, 26th and 30th in Sh%. I suspect it isn't just bad luck.


So the more skilled the player the higher the %, Carter has scored well in every system he's played in and under a variety of coaches. TT showed flashes of what he has, but after that, from a pure skill perspective, the Kings just don't have enough elite forwards.
New System/coach would help a little but you can't get blood from a stone.
If DL moves upstairs, and Blake takes over, I wonder if his vision of this team and what kind of team he wants going forward will change that, as he'd be responsible for the drafting and changes. Might he go in favor of a more skilled, less big and heavy game , since that has failed them for 3 yrs.

Time will tell
 
What do you guys think of Toffoli for RNH? Lets LA put Carter with Kopitar or even RNH with either of Carter/Kopitar and EDM gets a RW they sorely lack.
 
Since Sutter put his system in place...

David Johnson‏ @hockeyanalysis · Mar 25

@hugotwigg Since 2011-12 LA has finished 30th, 19th, 29th, 17th, 26th and 30th in Sh%. I suspect it isn't just bad luck.


So the more skilled the player the higher the %, Carter has scored well in every system he's played in and under a variety of coaches. TT showed flashes of what he has, but after that, from a pure skill perspective, the Kings just don't have enough elite forwards.
New System/coach would help a little but you can't get blood from a stone.
If DL moves upstairs, and Blake takes over, I wonder if his vision of this team and what kind of team he wants going forward will change that, as he'd be responsible for the drafting and changes. Might he go in favor of a more skilled, less big and heavy game , since that has failed them for 3 yrs.

Time will tell

Here are the Kings shot % rankings during Lombardi's tenure (meaning before Sutter):
06/07: 27th
07/08: 12th
08/09: 27th
09/10: 5th
10/11: 20th

So one season they were in the top 5. Two seasons they were the bottom 5. Two seasons they were in the middle.
 
Here are the Kings shot % rankings during Lombardi's tenure (meaning before Sutter):
06/07: 27th
07/08: 12th
08/09: 27th
09/10: 5th
10/11: 20th

So one season they were in the top 5. Two seasons they were the bottom 5. Two seasons they were in the middle.

Which is why they need a new set of eyes at GM. Props to all DL did but his drafting and trades and his 'vision' are a part of that, and why he got Sutter.
A new GM , whoever it would be, would have his own vision.

They need a change.

And I'm not a fan of Sutter, esp how he mishandles young players. With Brodz, Kempe, LaDue , Gravel and whoever might make it next year, I would rather have a different coach. His **** and vinegar and tough love approach isn't always the best to develop youth.
Stothers had done a great job with these guys, he knows them, they've responded to him and I'd rather see him get shot maybe.
But not Sutter, three years of underachieving and 1 playoff win is the handwriting on the wall, along with this team's lack of desire or urgency. He lost the room along time ago.
 
Goal difference from last year to this year:

Pearson, +8
Carter, +7
Dowd, +5
Setoguchi, +4
Nolan, +4
Iginla, +3
Shore, +2
Kempe, +2
Clifford, +2
Muzzin, +1
Lewis, +1
King, +1
Forbort, +1
Gravel, +1
Gilbert, +1
Greene, +1
Brown, even
McNabb, even
Mersch, -1
Martinez, -2
Gaborik, -2
Schenn, -2
Ehrhoff, -2
McBain, -2
Versteeg, -4
Doughty, -5
Andreoff, -8
Lecavalier, -10
Kopitar, -14
Toffoli, -17
Lucic, -20

You never know how much those goals from Andreoff might be worth until you don't have them.
 
Speaking of which, Dee, Jon Rosen had an interesting paragraph to close Waking Up with the Kings at lakingsinsider.com:

This probably will seem like an obvious statement to many and perhaps vague and loopy to some, but there’s just some sort of intangible, ambiguous element or catalyst that this team doesn’t have. There surely are measurable facets of the team’s game that are lacking – shooting percentage in five-on-five play, for one – but this is some hard-to-define abstract that isn’t really measurable. It’s not for a shortage of work or preparation, but this season-long struggle to score, while also related to personnel challenges and the tight-checking potential for offensive suppression, seems to be rooted in something more opaque and cerebral. It’s difficult to define but was again present in Staples Center on Saturday night.
 
I'd like to see some trades this off-season...

McNabb to Winnipeg for Dano.

Nolan + 3Rd to Tampa for Namestnikov

Clifford to Boston for K. Miller

Pearson--Kopitar--Toffoli
Namestnikov--Carter--Brodz
Brown--Kempe--Dano
Mersch--Dowd--Lewis
Shore, Auger

Forbort--Doughty
Muzzin--LaDue
Martinez--K. Miller
Gravel

Quick
XXX

those are pretty bad for the other teams in each deal
 
those are pretty bad for the other teams in each deal

Or we could do
Muzzin
For
Mike McCaron
2017 1st rounder
2017 2nd rounder

Then hopefully convince LV to take either Brown or Gaborik with a package revolving around our picks since it is such a weak draft...then maybe sign Hanzal as our new 3C

Mersch-Kopitar-Carter
Pearson-Kempe-Brown
Lewis-Hanzal-Brodzinski
Clifford-Dowd-McCaron

Forbort-Doughty
Gravel-Martinez
McNabb-LaDue

Quick
Campbell
 
Speaking of which, Dee, Jon Rosen had an interesting paragraph to close Waking Up with the Kings at lakingsinsider.com:


That's a good closer to that piece and this:

but there’s just some sort of intangible, ambiguous element or catalyst that this team doesn’t have

hits the nail on the head. That Catalyst, or lack thereof, is exactly what has been missing for the last 3 yrs. I Posted an article on the Around the League about the amazing display of leadership Kucherov has shown. Losing stamkos was tough enough and the other injury issues but trading 2 centers at the deadline, losing 3 more in March , including Johnson. I wrote the bolts off.

But since 2/20, in a little over 4 weeks, Kucherov has 17 goals and 29 pts, (7 goals in his last 4 games and all of the multiple pt games) he went on a mission at the deadline and is dragging them into the playoffs. He plays like a man possessed on most shifts. It's remarkable to watch and it's that effort that inspires the bench to pick it up on their shifts.
Props to him that is the kind if inner fire and instabile appetite you need in a leader and it's not something you can teach or learn, you have it or you don't. You add a skill like his to that, you have 1 special player.

That 's is what this team is lacking and has been for 3 seasons now . Carter tried his best for most of the year but it takes more than 1 player. And I think a lot of that 'fire' dying down can be to Sutter's effect on those players and the team. He's worn them down, and it shows.

I heard Iggy say, years ago, of Sutter that he's very very hard on the top players, and that some of them (this was while he was still in Calgary) can't handle it and that can become a distraction if you don't work at it . Willie Mitchell priced himself off the team to get away from him. (something that the FLA media mentioned when Willie got the C and Willie hinted at when the news of the locking sutter out broke)
You look at what the change in Brown has been (was the C when Sutter came) over the last 4 yrs. And maybe he's worn thin on Kopitar as well.

Whatever it is, you have to think the ownership group, after 3 yrs and 1 playoff win and how disinterested they've looked, esp down the stretch in these last 3 , will be wanting a change. Last playoff win was AMart's cup winner 3 yrs ago. I really think , after the last 2 yrs. of it, they gave DL 1 last chance to prove his way, his big heavy game, etc, still works, even to the extent of resigning Sutter. But it hasn't worked. I just can't think they want to revisit this path for a 4th time next year.

Something's gotta give...
 
Or we could do
Muzzin
For
Mike McCaron
2017 1st rounder
2017 2nd rounder

Then hopefully convince LV to take either Brown or Gaborik with a package revolving around our picks since it is such a weak draft...then maybe sign Hanzal as our new 3C

Mersch-Kopitar-Carter
Pearson-Kempe-Brown
Lewis-Hanzal-Brodzinski
Clifford-Dowd-McCaron

Forbort-Doughty
Gravel-Martinez
McNabb-LaDue

Quick
Campbell

what happened to toffoli ? Also don't see mersch handed 1 lw
 
What do you guys think of Toffoli for RNH? Lets LA put Carter with Kopitar or even RNH with either of Carter/Kopitar and EDM gets a RW they sorely lack.

No way. RNH is not what the Kings need. They need wingers, not Centers. Moving Carter to wing isn't a smart option.

those are pretty bad for the other teams in each deal

Each one of those teams will probably lose those players to Vegas. So they might want to move them for something.
 
No way. RNH is not what the Kings need. They need wingers, not Centers. Moving Carter to wing isn't a smart option.

Moving Carter to Kopitar's wing is a great idea. Trading Toffoli for RNH? Questionable. Better yet, just move Toffoli to Kopitar's wing.
 
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