kovacro
Uvijek Vjerni
Not thanks to the suggestions of Hanzal. Often injured and under productive slug. He's going to be looking for at least $5 million/yr. on the open market and someone will pay that and regret it.
2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part III
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BallPointHammer
Los Angeles Kings - We're Back!
That caught my attention too. I think with all the factors involved arcing the past 6 years (system of play not holding up, personnel changes, high expectations, salary cap issues, physical and mental fatigue, off ice problems, possibly some complacency, opponents motivated to knock us down) this epoch has clearly ended, the team's play shows it and change is already taking place. In hind sight it seems like what would have been expected anyway.
BallPointHammer
Los Angeles Kings - We're Back!
NEWS FLASH
This nightmare of a season continues for the Los Angeles Kings when earlier today it was reported that an apparent administrative error failed to include Tyler Toffoli's name on the team's expansion draft protected list. Further details upcoming.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
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Kopitar, Brown, Gaborik = 32 goals, and a $20.75m cap hit. That's roughly 29% of the cap, but only 18% of the goals scored by the team. To equal their cap hit, the 3 of them would need to be at about 52 of the 178 goals they have this year.
To match the hit in goals, Kopitar would need to be at 24 out of 178. Brown at 14, and Gaborik at 12, so those two are actually sort of close. Carter and Pearson have done more than their cap hit relative to the rest of the team, and even Toffoli has technically out-produced his cap hit too. Kopitar and Doughty are really the only two that are way off in the goals to cap hit ratio.
To match the hit in goals, Kopitar would need to be at 24 out of 178. Brown at 14, and Gaborik at 12, so those two are actually sort of close. Carter and Pearson have done more than their cap hit relative to the rest of the team, and even Toffoli has technically out-produced his cap hit too. Kopitar and Doughty are really the only two that are way off in the goals to cap hit ratio.
I'm curious as to how this team is planning on improving heading into next season???
Is it addition by subtraction ?? DS and DL both axed or just one (DS)
Do we move a Dman and offer that saved money to a vet ??? Say JDub?? He's looked good
Do we move the assets we get from trading away our Dman (Muzzin or Amart) to help entice a team to take in Brown or Gaborik?
There's nothing in the market I would sign to big money, so I rather lockup the kids who are RFA .
Is it addition by subtraction ?? DS and DL both axed or just one (DS)
Do we move a Dman and offer that saved money to a vet ??? Say JDub?? He's looked good
Do we move the assets we get from trading away our Dman (Muzzin or Amart) to help entice a team to take in Brown or Gaborik?
There's nothing in the market I would sign to big money, so I rather lockup the kids who are RFA .
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
Then why bother moving Brown or Gaborik? Keep the assets it would cost to move them. They're not going to free up crazy amounts of cap space by getting rid of either guy. Without retention, sure, but that's not going to happen.
If Sutter goes, fine, whatever. I wouldn't do anything with the roster though. Let the UFA's walk, lose someone to Vegas, sign the RFA's that need signing, have Kempe, LaDue, and Brodzinski on the team all year, keep your picks, no additional dead cap space, and go from there. If a new coach is the magic some of the players on this roster need, then don't screw more of the future by trading it for a quick fix. No rush to get rid of Brown or Gaborik.
I'm all for keeping the team intact, infusing it with kids from Ontario and moving Muzzin to the Habs for a 1st, 2nd and/or Mike McCarron
- Mar 9, 2002
- 7,203
- 4,941
I actually like this. Saying that I would just tweak it a hair saying if we got a decent offer for Brown or Gabby that we would only eat 1.5 mil or less on one of them a year I would take it and run. And I actually really like what Browns dynamic brings to the team. Teams still need to have a heads up when he is on the ice.
I would be really curious to see what a new coach would bring to this team and do to the more skilled guys like Gabby and Toffoli. Both were hurt this year and recovery in our system is a *****. I would like Gabby paired with Kuemper and let the two have some offensive freedom with Lewis on the line as a defensive supplement or overwatch.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
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KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,775
If it was April 1, I might think so, but considering the CF this organization has been recently, you have to wonder.
Choralone
Registered User
Uh, I think it was a joke in reference to Kings11 leaving Toffoli off his roster a few posts above, you overreacting goofs.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
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lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
???
Kopitar has played over 1000 minutes 5vs5 this season, only 18% of which was with Toffoli. Noted offensive juggernauts Dustin Brown, Trevor Lewis and Dwight King, who is not even with the Kings anymore, have played more minutes on Kopitar's wing.
Kopitar goals for % with Toffoli, 53%
Kopitar goals for % without Toffoli, 45%
Toffoli goals for % without Kopitar 47%
Toffoli has been more productive per 60 minutes with Kopitar than with any other forward, Pearson and Carter included. This is just this season.
Over the past four seasons, Toffoli has a better GF% with Kopitar than with Carter. He's also more productive per 60 minutes with Kopitar than with Carter. Over the past four years, Kopitar's best winger, judging by GF% is... Tyler Toffoli (not counting Justin Williams because he's not here any more).
It continues to be a mystery to me why Sutter doesn't put Toffoli and Kopitar together more often, or why Brown and Carter don't play together more often. Generally I don't think Sutter's a numbers guy. Players that have similar styles tend to do well together, and Toffoli and Kopitar fit really well together.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Though to be fair nothing is surprising anymore.
I've noticed these numbers as well but I think it's to spread around the speed. Toffoli and Kopitar are both of average speed. Toffoli with Pearson and Carter makes a lot of sense for that perspective.
After all the arguing and analytics and more arguing.....
I have analyzed, reasoned and concluded that Sutter needs to go along with his crap lineups
Brown-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Brodzinski
Lewis-Kempe-Gaborik
Andreoff-Dowd-Nolan
Why couldn't we see something like this just to give the kids a chance to show what they got??? The season is over so let's prep them for next season right???
I have analyzed, reasoned and concluded that Sutter needs to go along with his crap lineups
Brown-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Brodzinski
Lewis-Kempe-Gaborik
Andreoff-Dowd-Nolan
Why couldn't we see something like this just to give the kids a chance to show what they got??? The season is over so let's prep them for next season right???
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Where are you getting your numbers from? That's not the case this season.
http://dobberhockey.com/players/tyler-toffoli
Look at the even strength point production numbers. Toffoli and Kopitar have looked terrible together this season.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
You can get full WOWy numbers from here:
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1748&withagainst=true&season=2016-17&sit=5v5
The dobberhockey.com site doesn't give you nearly the information you need to assess if players are playing well together.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
It gives you an actual percentage of how much a player has produced with whichever line he's been with. Toffoli and Kopitar have looked absolutely useless together. They don't have the benefit of a Lucic anymore, and their line with Dwight King was among the slowest lines Sutter has put together.
There's a reason why they're not on the ice together that much, they don't click.
There's a reason why they're not on the ice together that much, they don't click.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
Again, check out the stats.hockeyanalysis.com page. Toffoli doesn't play much with Kopitar (~20% of his minutes at 5 vs. 5), but when he does, it's more productive. Toffoli has 2 goals and 4 assists in 183 minutes with Kopitar this season, compared with 7 goals and 8 assists in 703 minutes total. If he had played all 703 minutes with Kopitar, he would have 8 goals and 15 assists (a simple extrapolation).
I've always thought that Pearson/Carter were too fast for Toffoli, even though they were dominant there for a while. They've had a hard time replicating that initial dominance.
Kempe would make that one fast, skilled line. Toffoli doesn't look as good with Kopitar, but he gets better results so it would be worth a long look.
Looking at that roster I wish we could remove Brown and Gaborik....
???-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Brodzinski
Lewis-Kempe-???
Andreoff-Dowd-Nolan
So many possibilities if those two overpaid chumps are gone.
Mersh could end up on the 3rd line with Kempe and Lewis. Kings could make a pitch for a guy like Oshie to play with Kopitar
We are doomed until we dump ONE of Brown or Gaborik.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,775
Pretty small sample size, and Toffoli hasn't been on fire this season playing with anyone.
At this point just about anything is worth a try.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
If you look at the last four years, those same WOWY numbers get even better with the two together. Defensively they are really good together and offensively they produce. Goals for per 60 over 3 and goals against per 60 less than 2. These two are crazy good together, but don't get to play together much. Less than 20% of Kopitar's 5vs5 minutes are with Toffoli.
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