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2016-17 Kings Roster Part 2

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:laugh:

And now for something completely different...



So, it wasn’t a total surprise but it was a disappointment. I wish it didn’t work out that way. I wish I would have stayed in Los Angeles but when I think of the circumstances, I was just so upset. I could have lived with George Maguire’s number, and he gave a reason why he felt that was the case, but for less, I just felt I was basically cheated by the system and unfortunately, it wasn’t meant to be. But going to Washington, it was a place where I got to play with Rod Langway. He won the Norris Trophy for a couple years that I played with him when I was his partner — and I learned a lot. So, for my career, it turned out to be a positive but definitely it’s a hit to get– you have your heart and soul in a team and then you’re leaving it, it was pretty upsetting. But with time, you go to a new team and the players do the best they can to welcome you.
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**** it! Trade both Muzzin & Martinez. The D looks promising, but it's not there yet. Making the playoffs on the wildcard and getting destroyed in the first round is pointless. This isn't 2012 where the Kings have Scuderi/Mitchell/Greene to defense teams to death.

-Get the best possible center/center prospect out of it.
-Sign a LHD shutdown guy for the second pair. About the only thing in this years UFA class is LHD.
-Try to trade with a Colorado/Buffalo for an actual player. (team out of playoffs)
-If that doesn't work move them at the deadline.
 
I think Martinez is the most likely candidate to be moved, preferably for a forward who is competent with the puck and inside the offensive blueline.

Just roll with Doughty and Forbort, Muzzin and LaDue, and McNabb and Gravel as the top 6, bring up a dman from Ontario to serve as the spare dman or acquire a veteran from the bargain bin, like Pittsburgh was able to do with Trevor Daley or Justin Schultz. Daley found success when he was inserted on the right side (and he's a left shooting dman).

I still don't think the Kings should be buyers, unless it's a cost effective move that involve players with term and don't have one foot out the door as soon as they arrive.

The bigger problems this team is facing is with players they are stuck with who will be around for the next four, five years. Man does the future look bleak when you look at what forwards are in the pipeline who could fill top six roles in the future. Look at Kopitar's current wingers and their numbers. It's sad.
 
I think we have the talent on defense, just not the right mixture. We have some youth that are holding their own and our prospects on Defence look bright: I still think we should build from the net out and keep 4 dman in the expansion draft, I just don't think 1 should be Martinez. The guy should be playing on the left side, especially when he struggles. He has always been a tweeter between a 4th and a 5th dman and sometime we expect to much from him.

Looking to balance out the defense with next year in mind and still competing this year:

Doughty - Muzzin. - why mess with a good thing
Bogosian - Forbert - the missing snarl, Forbert has impressed
LaDue - Gravel - McNabb. - rotate the three until Ladue is ready

I trade Martinez and Clifford to Buff for Bogosian. He is injury prone and a tad expensive but fills a huge need. Not sure if the offer is fair but it balanced their lineup as last time I looked they needed a decent Lefty. Cliffys cap hit off the books helps as we have guys in the minors that can fill the same roll at a cheaper price. If they don't want Cliffy then see if they retain a bit of salary and we add a pick

My dream lineup would include Trouba but we have tried making it work for both teams and it didn't.

Would love Myers for Martinez but the surgery thing is scary and we would be writing off the year.

These are just a few examples but we won with a team built around Quick and the D. A bit of balance would be great and we are in a deadly position as Gravel and LaDue are exempt. We are even stronger if Vegas doesn't take McNabb. Would love if both Wog and L.A could retain McNabb and Dano in the draft and swap them next year
 
Muzzin/Doughty
Forbort/Martinez
Gravel/McNabb/LaDue
This is about the best D lineup the Kings have right now.

Muzzin has trouble with breakout passes. He just defers to Doughty to move the puck. This can be an issue if/when playoffs happen and teams overload Doughty. Forbort would be much better on that pair because of his ability to move the puck.

Moving Forbort up leaves the Muzzin/Martinez pairing. Not good.

The players, other then Martinez, "capable" of playing that 2nd pair RHD are Gravel & LaDue. They are capable of playing the position. Playing at a high enough level for the top4 is a different question. If you move LaDue to that pair, it's either Forbort & LaDue (not enough experience this year) or Muzzin & Ladue. Muzzin showed in the 4v4 last game why that doesn't work. He chipped in and left Toffoli & LaDue on defense.

Muzzin: The issue is he needs to be paired with a shutdown guy that can move the puck. (Doughty) The team would be better with Forbort on the top pair and Muzzin on the second. Kings don't have that player to pair with Muzzin on the second pair.

Martinez: Fine on the second pair, but needs a shutdown guy to be paired with. Preferably a RHD so he can move back to the left.

What the Kings have, Looking a year or 2 out at where guys slot.

Forbort/Doughty
?????/LaDue
Gravel/McNabb

A shutdown guy for the 2nd pair LHD is the easiest spot to fill and can be done UFA. It's easier then getting Martinez a shutdown RHD. That would look like Trouba(not happening), Bogo(injury), Gudbranson:naughty:, or maybe E.Johnson (probably not happening). Muzzin is a trickier one to find a partner for, he almost hast to be paired with Doughty.

Solution: Trade Muzzin & Martinez pick up a shutdown guy for the second pair and wait for the D to develop.

Edit: Expansion draft: Moving both Muzzin & Martinez gets you to a 7:3 and everyone up front and on defense can be protected. Which ups the chances of Vegas taking Brown. As the choice would be between him and Clifford/Nolan/Andy, or trying to sign King UFA.
 
I hate to take away the punch bowl of a Muzzin/Martinez trade but there won't be any top forwards coming back if you do trade 1 or both. We have that little thing called an expansion draft coming up and every team's fan board thinks they will trade a D to keep from losing someone for nothing. Sure you can trade one but don't expect anything much back.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
I think Martinez is the most likely candidate to be moved, preferably for a forward who is competent with the puck and inside the offensive blueline.

Just roll with Doughty and Forbort, Muzzin and LaDue, and McNabb and Gravel as the top 6, bring up a dman from Ontario to serve as the spare dman or acquire a veteran from the bargain bin, like Pittsburgh was able to do with Trevor Daley or Justin Schultz. Daley found success when he was inserted on the right side (and he's a left shooting dman).

I still don't think the Kings should be buyers, unless it's a cost effective move that involve players with term and don't have one foot out the door as soon as they arrive.

The bigger problems this team is facing is with players they are stuck with who will be around for the next four, five years. Man does the future look bleak when you look at what forwards are in the pipeline who could fill top six roles in the future. Look at Kopitar's current wingers and their numbers. It's sad.
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Agreed. From what all the bloggers are saying Martinez is the odd man out too.

Muzzin is only 27 (soon 28) and Martinez 29 (soon 30), so that plays a role.

Gilbert, Trotman, or Scuderi could be the #7 - or Greene when healthy.

Lets also not forgot Macdermind will be itching for a spot next year and he was LaDue's partner.

I would not trade either if it was me though (Martinez or Muzzin), and just roll the dice with the current line up, make a few small deals, call up Kempe and see what happens in the playoffs.
 
HookKing said:
I hate to take away the punch bowl of a Muzzin/Martinez trade but there won't be any top forwards coming back if you do trade 1 or both. We have that little thing called an expansion draft coming up and every team's fan board thinks they will trade a D to keep from losing someone for nothing. Sure you can trade one but don't expect anything much back.
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I happen to agree. That's why I would like to trade one of our overstocked Left shot Dman for a RH dman with snarl. Bogosian was the most realistic target I could think of if we moved Martinez to balance things up.

With Greene as good as done, Regehr long gone we need that big defensive guy in the top 4 that can skate and pass
 
HookKing said:
I hate to take away the punch bowl of a Muzzin/Martinez trade but there won't be any top forwards coming back if you do trade 1 or both. We have that little thing called an expansion draft coming up and every team's fan board thinks they will trade a D to keep from losing someone for nothing. Sure you can trade one but don't expect anything much back.
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I still believe a top 2 defenseman can fetch a top 6 forward in any instance. Muzzin is still a top 2 defenseman and can certainly get a top 6 forward. How the hell Adam Larsson could get Taylor Hall shows that a team like Edmonton would pay a premium beyond Larsson's worth. Muzzin is better than him. Muzzin could probably get Landeskog right now, with perhaps a prospect added...mostly because Muzzin is 27 and Landeskpg is 24. Also consider Muzzin has a below market cap hit, compared to his peers. Several teams may lose a bonafide top 4 defenseman to expansion, but any team would protect Muzzin and welcome him in a deal.

Martinez is legit top 4 and may not land a good top 6 straght up. (then there's the argument that about legit top 6 forwards - Gaborik certianly is, but could be had with a draft pick, or decent prospect, no doubt..and Martinez is worth beyond that. Age and contracts play into all this, for true trade value.

The 'sudden' emergence of Forbert and Gravel is the best thing about this season, really, for the Kings. Ladue is about to press through too.
This will allow DL to move either Muzzin or Martinez to get the forward needed. It may seem crazy to play 3 rookies, but they are better than the Gilbert's, Ehrhoff's, Greene's, Scuderi's...and that's what counts at the end of the day.
 
I too see Muzzin as more valuable in a trade than Martinez for all the reasons PJB listed AND Martinez may be more 'important' to us because outside of Drew he's the only threat to skate the puck end to end.
 
Peter James Bond II said:
I still believe a top 2 defenseman can fetch a top 6 forward in any instance. Muzzin is still a top 2 defenseman and can certainly get a top 6 forward. How the hell Adam Larsson could get Taylor Hall shows that a team like Edmonton would pay a premium beyond Larsson's worth. Muzzin is better than him. Muzzin could probably get Landeskog right now, with perhaps a prospect added...mostly because Muzzin is 27 and Landeskpg is 24. Also consider Muzzin has a below market cap hit, compared to his peers. Several teams may lose a bonafide top 4 defenseman to expansion, but any team would protect Muzzin and welcome him in a deal.

Martinez is legit top 4 and may not land a good top 6 straght up. (then there's the argument that about legit top 6 forwards - Gaborik certianly is, but could be had with a draft pick, or decent prospect, no doubt..and Martinez is worth beyond that. Age and contracts play into all this, for true trade value.

The 'sudden' emergence of Forbert and Gravel is the best thing about this season, really, for the Kings. Ladue is about to press through too.
This will allow DL to move either Muzzin or Martinez to get the forward needed. It may seem crazy to play 3 rookies, but they are better than the Gilbert's, Ehrhoff's, Greene's, Scuderi's...and that's what counts at the end of the day.
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How dare u forget Schenn
 
KingTrouty said:
This board is so fascinated and stuck on trading some of our best Dmen. Never change, Kings Fan.
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Seriously. I can see arguments for trading either Muzzin or Martinez for a cost-controlled top 6, but trading both of them? We might as well do a full rebuild, considering how horrible our defense will be with an all rookie lineup.
 
AlphaBravo said:
Seriously. I can see arguments for trading either Muzzin or Martinez for a cost-controlled top 6, but trading both of them? We might as well do a full rebuild, considering how horrible our defense will be with an all rookie lineup.
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There is no way we survive trading both. I personally keep Muzz as he provides more upside and is younger. I like Martinez but he does seem to be on the wrong side of goals to many times this year.

No use in trading for a forward as we don't have 7 worth protecting. Would rather insure our defense stys solid
 
In 2012 they had
Scuderi/Doughty
Mitchell/Voynov
Martinez/Greene
Had a solid D paired with young guys.

Kings now have
Forbort/Doughty
????/LaDue
McNabb/Gravel.

Doughty can take the solid D role on the top pair, McNabb is more then capable of handling the bottom pair with Gravel. They need a physical shutdown guy for the second pair.

Muzzin & Martinez are nice, but I don't see where either one fits into that.

re: Expansion draft. There'll be plenty of teams open to trading for someone like Muzzin & Martinez.
Teams like Philly/TO that are young and may have open protection spots on the back end because most of the guys they care about are ineligible for the draft.

Then there are teams that are all in it this year and will go for a cup over worrying about the expansion draft. Teams like Washington & MTL. Cap: they can both afford the 4M at the deadline. They have expiring contracts so that they can fit the cap space next year. May not want to spend assets on rentals, but both are signed for term. They may end up losing someone they don't want to, but their focus will be on the cup.

Some teams that might have interest.
WPG need top4 LHD
Colorado: They need all the D they can get.
Washington: May want to go for it all. Insurance for Orpik.
MTL: Could use a partner for Webber
TO: Need RHD, but could slide one guy to the right side.
Buffalo: Need LHD for top pair with Risto
Ranger: Could use something, but their cap is ****ed and don't know what they'd part with.


Lombardi is really good at finding defensive D. Sucderi UFA, Mitchell UFA coming back from a knee injury? Greene trade, Regehr trade. None of those were all that hard to pick up.
 
Scuderi - Perceived over payment that worked out. Could overpay due to no cap issues and a young team.
Mitchell - Only got him because of willingness to add extra year due to concussions. No cap issues either.
Greene - Part of a trade that sent a very good d-man away in Visnovsky.
Regher - That was easy.

I wouldn't say it was easy to find most of these guys and, if it was, the roster and lack of real cap concerns made it "easy".

Let's face it: making any move was easier from 2006-2013. On the surface, the only move that could be made that is similar would be the Visnovsky for Stoll/Greene trade via Muzzin, but is that something done for this year or for next? There also wasn't the issue of the pesky expansion draft back then either.
 
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